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Old 04-19-2017, 12:59 AM   #1
frethand101
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Default Using a guitar as a MIDI controller...

I have a guitar setup with a Roland GK-3 MIDI pickup (5-Pin) but I'm not too sure how (or "IF") I can use it as a MIDI controller??.. Strangely enough, I can't seem to find anything online that talks about this particular method of triggering..

I know that I can skip the VSTi's & just continue using my Roland GR-20 for my MIDI Instruments.. However, in the long run, being able to cut out the middle man & just use my MIDI equipped guitar by itself as my controller would come with way more flexibility as well as instrument choices..

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Old 04-19-2017, 08:16 AM   #2
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Hi. Hasn't the GR20 got MIDI out? So just use that as input for any VSTi in REAPER.
http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/GR20WS03.pdf
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:14 AM   #3
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Quote:
...(5-Pin) but I'm not too sure how (or "IF") I can use it as a MIDI controller??..
I believe the guitar is a MIDI controller. I think you're simply looking for a "MIDI interface". Those aren't too hard to find.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:39 AM   #4
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Oh snap, that's a welcomed heads-up, I wasn't even thinking of the GR-20 from that perspective.. I've always used it like an FX pedal with my guitar amp, or directly into an input on my portastudio, I completely forgot about the MIDI side of it..

As far as a MIDI interface goes, the Behringer UMC204HD will cover both audio & MIDI interfacing.. This is actually what got me wondering if I could use the GK-3 to control VSTi's in Reaper via the MIDI I/O's on the Behringer.. I would think (or at least I'm hoping) that the GK-3 would show up in Reapers input options as the Behringer's MIDI I/O's..


I linked the Behringer model that I'm talking about to give a better example of what I'll be working with.. Based on the price-point & reviews, I think its features will be more than enough to get me through the birth pangs of being a beginner.. ;-)

https://www.music-group.com/Categori...204HD/p/P0BK0#

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Old 04-20-2017, 05:12 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by frethand101 View Post
As far as a MIDI interface goes, the Behringer UMC204HD will cover both audio & MIDI interfacing.. This is actually what got me wondering if I could use the GK-3 to control VSTi's in Reaper via the MIDI I/O's on the Behringer.. I would think (or at least I'm hoping) that the GK-3 would show up in Reapers input options as the Behringer's MIDI I/O's..
Yeah, should be possible. The connections would look like this:

GK-3 goes into the GR-20. And the GR-20 is connected via the MIDI-I/O to the Behringer.

In Reaper you'll have to enable the MIDI in/outputs of the Behringer (since this is the device which is directly connected to your computer and will show up under MIDI devices).
Then map the MIDI messages to actions, plugin parameters, etc. inside Reaper.

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Old 04-20-2017, 05:43 AM   #6
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Yeah, should be possible. The connections would look like this:

GK-3 goes into the GR-20. And the GR-20 is connected via the MIDI-I/O to the Behringer.

In Reaper you'll have to enable the MIDI in/outputs of the Behringer (since this is the device which is directly connected to your computer and will show up under MIDI devices).
Then map the MIDI messages to actions, plugin parameters, etc. inside Reaper.
Could I do this "without the GR-20" using just the GK-3 MIDI pickup on my guitar plugged into the MIDI I/O's on the Behringer??..

The connection scenario would be:

GK-3 going directly into the MIDI I/O of the Behringer & then map MIDI messages, plugin parameters, etc. in Reaper..

I wouldn't be using the GR-20 at all, just the GK-3 equipped guitar via the MIDI I/O's on the Behringer..

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Old 04-20-2017, 06:00 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by frethand101 View Post
Could I do this "without the GR-20" using just the GK-3 MIDI pickup on my guitar plugged into the MIDI I/O's on the Behringer??..

The connection scenario would be:

GK-3 going directly into the MIDI I/O of the Behringer & then map MIDI messages, plugin parameters, etc. with just the GK-3 as sole MIDI controller..
I don't think so, because the GK cable (which connects the GK-3 to the GR-20) is a proprietary connection.
So you'll need a GK-compatible device (like the GR-20) to convert the notes from the GK-3 into MIDI. See the GR20WS03.pdf file martifingers linked in post #2 for more info.

Last edited by solger; 04-20-2017 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:25 AM   #8
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solger is right.

My setup includes a Roland VG99 which act in the same way as solger describes.

The VG99 is the midi device in Reaper. The GK-3 and GR-20 act together in much the same way as a normal midi keyboard controller - keys = GK-3 (sort of) and Keyboard = GR-20, if that makes sense

Have a look here for info

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:48 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by solger View Post
I don't think this will work since it looks like the GK cable (which connects the GK-3 to the GR-20) is a proprietary connection.
So you'll need the GK-20 to convert the notes from the GK-3 into MIDI. See the GR20WS03.pdf file DVDdoug linked in his post for more info.
Ahh, so the GR-20 is what makes it possible for the GK-3 to interface with Reaper in the first place.. Shucks, I was hoping that I could get away with using just the GK-3 & the Behringer to be more "portable" when traveling..

But even with the GR-20 in the mix, this will still be a very cool asset to have..

So if I wanted to just use VSTi's in Reaper I would only need to go OUT of the GR-20 & IN to the Behringer.. But if I wanted to use the GR-20's MIDI instruments exclusively I would need to connect the MIDI I/O's to & from both the Behringer & the GR-20 accordingly..

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Old 04-20-2017, 05:17 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by frethand101 View Post
But if I wanted to use the GR-20's MIDI instruments exclusively I would need to connect the MIDI I/O's to & from both the Behringer & the GR-20 accordingly..
If I understand you properly you just need to take the AUDIO out from the GR20,

But yes, it's a very cool asset to have. Just make sure your playing is clean enough not to trigger spurious notes etc. (Mine wasn't!)
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:33 PM   #11
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whole 'nuther way... Jam Origin Midi Guitar... google it if you don't know

the term 'controller' can be confusing though... as a MIDI KEYBOARD would be more accurate...

controllers to me mean that you can use the knobs and sliders provided on some midi keyboards to send midi control messages to a vsti or whatever... i.e., to turn a knob on the vsti....

AKAIK you can't do that with the gtr srings.... but you certainly can input midi notes that play whatever vsti
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:01 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by martifingers View Post
But yes, it's a very cool asset to have. Just make sure your playing is clean enough not to trigger spurious notes etc. (Mine wasn't!)
I hear ya man.. When I first bought the GR-20 it took awhile to get a feel for playing non-fretted instruments with a fretted instrument.. ;-) The strings & horn stuff wasn't too bad but anything involving the keyboard family really forces you to find a different way to play the guitar.. Riffing on the percussion stuff can be tricky too but the results can sometimes produce some real trippy fills.. A human drummer would have a hard time trying to duplicate them that's for sure.. =P

The cool thing that really stood out to me was that once I got on the other side of the challenge I noticed that my creative approach to the guitar, as a guitar, started to evolve in a new direction.. Adding MIDI guitar to the lineup was one of those decisions that definitely came with more benefits than I'd imagined it would.. ;-)
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Old 04-23-2017, 02:43 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by hopi View Post
whole 'nuther way... Jam Origin Midi Guitar... google it if you don't know

the term 'controller' can be confusing though... as a MIDI KEYBOARD would be more accurate...

controllers to me mean that you can use the knobs and sliders provided on some midi keyboards to send midi control messages to a vsti or whatever... i.e., to turn a knob on the vsti....

AKAIK you can't do that with the gtr srings.... but you certainly can input midi notes that play whatever vsti
Thx for the tip hopi!.. I'm trying to make my first DAW studio completely portable & the Jam Origin software is definitely a step in the right direction.. The GR-20/GK-3 is great when I'm in a home studio setting, but the downside is that I can't take my "whole studio" with me when I fly.. Not to mention that the baggage grunts at any airport can be BRUTAL when they're handling your luggage!!.. LOL

As far as the GK-3 as a controller goes, I had it out the other day & it technically isn't MIDI.. I thought it was a 5-Pin MIDI cable but it's actually a 13-Pin DIN that only works with Roland's VG MIDI guitar processors.. But with the speed that technology moves at these days I guess you really can't blame Roland for factoring this into their design.. ;-)
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:49 PM   #14
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Is there anyone here that knows of an affordable bass plugin that I can use with "just my guitar" to produce convincing bass guitar sounds??.. I'm looking for something to hold me over until I can afford something more permanent like Jam Origin, or something like that, but for Bass guitar..

V-Bass is the biggest thing that keeps me shackled to the GR-20 unit & I can't fly with the GR-20, so when I do fly I'm stuck without a bassline to write with.. I was hoping that if I could find a simple VST plugin with some believable e-bass voices then I'd at least be able to travel with the basic core instruments needed to effectively write & record when I'm not in home studio mode.. I know that there's gotta be something I can get by on, I just don't know what exactly it is that I should be looking for yet..

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Old 04-25-2017, 09:39 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by frethand101 View Post
Is there anyone here that knows of an affordable bass plugin that I can use with "just my guitar" to produce convincing bass guitar sounds??.. I'm looking for something to hold me over until I can afford something more permanent like Jam Origin, or something like that, but for Bass guitar..

V-Bass is the biggest thing that keeps me shackled to the GR-20 unit & I can't fly with the GR-20, so when I do fly I'm stuck without a bassline to write with.. I was hoping that if I could find a simple VST plugin with some believable e-bass voices then I'd at least be able to travel with the basic core instruments needed to effectively write & record when I'm not in home studio mode.. I know that there's gotta be something I can get by on, I just don't know what exactly it is that I should be looking for yet..
umm well first things first... IMHO you really should bite the bullet and get Jam Origin... you can try the demo but it won't let you load other VSTi's as sound makers....
IF you buy the full version you will also get a link to their new Jam Bass which much the same as the GTR version but make for bass gtr...
It is included in the purchase...

I say all this after reading your words about the roland... IMO Jam Origin is better now in everyway...

OK then you need some VSTi that makes bass gtr noise... look on KVR Audio for some free one...

Also I have done exactly what you want to do... [fake a bass gtr] with my gtr as audio input and no Jam Origin... by doing this:

1-simply record the gtr playing it for a bass but knowing you are an octave too high
2-take the wav item and set the pitch envelope on it to -7 semitones... which is as far as down as it goes...
3-freeze that track and unlock it
4-do the pitch env. on it again, this time set down to -5 semitones
...and freeze it again

you should get the gtr an octave down...
you can then compress, eq, gate or whatever to get your fake bass line
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Old 04-26-2017, 06:29 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by hopi View Post
umm well first things first... IMHO you really should bite the bullet and get Jam Origin... you can try the demo but it won't let you load other VSTi's as sound makers....
IF you buy the full version you will also get a link to their new Jam Bass which much the same as the GTR version but make for bass gtr...
It is included in the purchase...

I say all this after reading your words about the roland... IMO Jam Origin is better now in everyway...

OK then you need some VSTi that makes bass gtr noise... look on KVR Audio for some free one...

Also I have done exactly what you want to do... [fake a bass gtr] with my gtr as audio input and no Jam Origin... by doing this:

1-simply record the gtr playing it for a bass but knowing you are an octave too high
2-take the wav item and set the pitch envelope on it to -7 semitones... which is as far as down as it goes...
3-freeze that track and unlock it
4-do the pitch env. on it again, this time set down to -5 semitones
...and freeze it again

you should get the gtr an octave down...
you can then compress, eq, gate or whatever to get your fake bass line
I'm definitely drooling over the Jam Origin for sure, but it's going to be awhile before I can afford any additional software, especially the more synth related software.. I'm what I would classify as being a straight ahead rock-n-roller, so I don't find myself reaching for piano & strings "quite as often" as I do with Guitar, Bass & Drums.. Being that I'm just starting to learn about pc recording, I'm kind of trying to keep things as simple as possible until I can get comfortable with the basics of working in Reaper..

I did find a free Bass vst on VST's4Free a few months ago, but the lower octave is blocked because they want you to buy the full version, which is understandable.. At the moment I only have the virtual keyboard in Reaper to demo this kind of stuff with, but if it sounds as good as it looks, it might just be a worthwhile purchase.. I'm not very experienced with VST shopping though so I posted the link if you wanna to check it out.. It comes with a "TAB View" too which seemed to me like it could be a potentially cool feature.. http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php...BPL_II&id=2505

I did take some quick notes on what you were saying about lowering the pitch of the guitars recorded signal until it's as low as a Bass & then dressing it up with comp, eq, gate, etc.. This method would definitely be effective enough to get me started if I can't find an affordable plug-n-play solution for Bass guitar right away..
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Old 04-26-2017, 09:14 AM   #17
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free gtr bass VSTi... google for 4front bass

it might get you by for now...

seems like money is a problem for you right now... I can dig it

maybe you'll win the lottery soon...

suggest a look at IK Multimedia MODO bass when you do...
that would about cover any bass desires you'd ever have IMO...

other idea... sell the roland... get Jam Origin... be happier
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:19 PM   #18
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Here's a really good FREE bass VST. Lots of control and tweaks

http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2016...ass-p-lite-ii/
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Old 04-27-2017, 07:40 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by hopi View Post
free gtr bass VSTi... google for 4front bass

it might get you by for now...

seems like money is a problem for you right now... I can dig it

maybe you'll win the lottery soon...

suggest a look at IK Multimedia MODO bass when you do...
that would about cover any bass desires you'd ever have IMO...

other idea... sell the roland... get Jam Origin... be happier
I have actually been thinking a lot lately about just selling off the Roland kit & buying a really good bass sim software, it's the one instrument that has always kept me from selling the GR-20 in the past.. I'm not really a big synth user to begin with, so that's something that I can live without for awhile, but my bass lines have to sound as real possible..

I have the 4-Front Bass but it's one of only two free bass vst's that I've been able to find so far.. IK's MODO Bass is super cool but I haven't been able to confirm whether or not a regular guitar can be used with it, or is MODO Bass IK's Amplitube-4 for bass players?..

The biggest thing that's keeping my purchase window from opening isn't as much about the money as it is my current circumstances.. I'm overseas at the moment so my hands are kinda tied until I can get back to the US.. Until then I'm trying to make good use of the downtime to sort through the Reaper learning curves to help cut down on my struggles once I do get my greedy hands on some gear.. ;-))
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Old 04-27-2017, 08:52 AM   #20
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I have actually been thinking a lot lately about just selling off the Roland kit & buying a really good bass sim software, it's the one instrument that has always kept me from selling the GR-20 in the past.. I'm not really a big synth user to begin with, so that's something that I can live without for awhile, but my bass lines have to sound as real possible..

I have the 4-Front Bass but it's one of only two free bass vst's that I've been able to find so far.. IK's MODO Bass is super cool but I haven't been able to confirm whether or not a regular guitar can be used with it, or is MODO Bass IK's Amplitube-4 for bass players?..

The biggest thing that's keeping my purchase window from opening isn't as much about the money as it is my current circumstances.. I'm overseas at the moment so my hands are kinda tied until I can get back to the US.. Until then I'm trying to make good use of the downtime to sort through the Reaper learning curves to help cut down on my struggles once I do get my greedy hands on some gear.. ;-))
MODO is a VSTi instrument... so it takes midi input
so... you can trigger it with your guitar IF you also have Jam Origin
or you can trigger it with midi however you get the midi into it...
reaper gives you the virtual midi keyboard that let's you play midi with your normal qwerty key board....
and\or you can simply write the midi with the Midi Editor and\or the Inline MIDI Editor...

Now the roland and other things like it were the first attempts to get a gtr to play othe synth sounds.... and they were so-so for back then...
One down side is they limit you to whatever sounds roland provides...

With Jam Origin you can in essence play any VSTi [such as MODO] or any other VSTi synth.... so you really are unlimited.

MODO really has nothing to do with with Amplitude and you don't need that with it.... it has lots of that built in if you want it...

The range of bass types and therefore bass sounds is IMO phenominal and then just to go hog wild, consider that you can run two instances of it and layer up a bass that has never existed in the physical world...

I'm not trying to sell you on anything... just trying to give you a clear picture of ways you can go.
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:27 AM   #21
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With Jam Origin you can in essence play any VSTi [such as MODO] or any other VSTi synth.... so you really are unlimited.

The range of bass types and therefore bass sounds is IMO phenominal and then just to go hog wild, consider that you can run two instances of it and layer up a bass that has never existed in the physical world...
I "think" I'm starting to get what your saying..

1) Jam Origin is a "VSTi Synth" (Virtual Instrument) designed to be used with the dry signal of a guitar instead of a legitimate MIDI controller..

2) Jam Origin can also apply VSTi's that didn't originally come with it making it possible to trigger "almost" any VSTi using "just my guitar"..

I'll definitely be checking into this further..

Last edited by frethand101; 04-30-2017 at 03:11 AM. Reason: Problem Solved!!..
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