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05-02-2013, 08:38 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,725
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Reaper Bashing
Hey All.
I am wondering why on other sites like kvr there seems to be a propensity to bash reaper and blindly label users as fanboys and whatever else. I get the whole tribalism aspect and the confirmation bias of people but lately I have read quite a few negative threads about reaper and its fanboy users.
I know it's all childish and extremely counter productive in general but it still makes me wonder.
Since using reaper for about a year and a half, these are my observations:
(I used pro tools and studio one prior)
1. This forum has been the most helpful and friendliest forum I have been on thus far. I have seen some off the wall questions get asked here that have nothing to do with reaper and it seems there is always someone willing to help regardless. I have probably asked some stupid questions but I always get a reply anyway...well most of the time.
2. I can't think of any daw that is more graphically customizable to suit the users needs and tastes. Essentially if you don't like something , change it. Simple. I am now running white tie imperial dark on two monitors and it is visually stunning to me but reaper keeps chugging along, rock solid as ever behind my customized canvas.
3. Running 32 bit plugs in 64 bit system and environment has been flawless for me. I seriously can't think of one time a free synth or effect crashed reaper or created an issue, not once. Seamless bit bridging to say the least.
4. Reaper has never crashed or locked up on me ever! I may be just lucky and I don't own a recording studio so my usage is less. I have had some behavioral issues but most of them were because of user error or stupidity on my part.
I guess I could go on and on with the pros but there are also things I don't like about it . I really would like a fruity loops style pattern sequencer for midi...
I don't see the arrogant fanboy attitude portrayed in some threads, I actually see quite the opposite. More often than not humble guys and gals just trying to make some noise or sculpt it while having fun. I guess if reaper doesn't suit your tastes don't use it. Done.
[rant/] [off]
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05-02-2013, 08:52 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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Reaper is a damn stable mature daw but it is not user friendly for new users. Most people I know won't read the manual or test things so they dismiss them. It's a shame as Reaper could be both friendly to new users and very extensible but it's not a priority so you are stuck with comments from what I refer to as AOL users (now Apple users hehe)... my 2 cents.
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05-02-2013, 08:59 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Posts: 1,057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
Reaper is a damn stable mature daw but it is not user friendly for new users. Most people I know won't read the manual or test things so they dismiss them. It's a shame as Reaper could be both friendly to new users and very extensible but it's not a priority so you are stuck with comments from what I refer to as AOL users (now Apple users hehe)... my 2 cents.
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I think it's kind of funny when I hear people say that Reaper is "not user-friendly for new users", although I do understand the statement, somewhat, just because everything is so customizable. However, coming from Cubase SX3, the first time I tried Reaper, I had it installed, up and running, and recording within half an hour. Trust me, that was NOT the way it worked with Cubase!
__________________
"A fly was very close to being called a land, 'cause that's what they do half the time."
-Mitch Hedberg
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05-02-2013, 09:15 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Every time I see yet another of these threads, my first (and these days ONLY) reaction to the OP is "Why do you care?"
Does a few threads on (insert name of forum here) dissing Reaper make it any less useful to you? Nope. Thought not.
Will your faith in the Reaper devs surviving this criticism and continuing development in the face of it be unfounded? Nope. Thought not.
So like I said, who cares?
Personally I am reasonably happy with the way in which Reaper is developing, I accept that it is maybe a little "option rich" for a beginner or non-manual reader and am content to see the |Reaper user base expand steadily the way it has been doing so far. I got here at the arse end of version 1, so can put all this stuff in perspective.
It`s only a DAW, after all.
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05-02-2013, 09:19 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Seems pretty stupid mentioning KVR
For every bad mention of Reaper on that forum there is at least twenty good mentions
It is constantly at the top of any most used host polls at KVR
Silly thread that more than anything goes to prove the point you wished to disprove
__________________
Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
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05-02-2013, 10:39 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w
Seems pretty stupid mentioning KVR
For every bad mention of Reaper on that forum there is at least twenty good mentions
It is constantly at the top of any most used host polls at KVR
Silly thread that more than anything goes to prove the point you wished to disprove
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...and some people just like to find fault to hear themselves moan.
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05-02-2013, 10:56 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,173
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Gearsluts and KVR...always good for a laugh...
__________________
Yep's First 3 Years in PDF's
HP Z600 w/3GHz 12 Core, 48GB Memory, nVidia Quadro 5800, 240GB SSD OS drive, 3 480GB SSD Sample/Storage drives, 18TB External Storage, Dual 27" Monitors
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05-02-2013, 11:10 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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If the thread you mean is the one I started there partly as a joke, wondering why nobody had mentioned the new Reaper release and great stretch markers... the thread that kinda turned into a larger discussion which is typically always the case anywhere with daws, yeah, my bad.
The OP was me doing the wrong thing in hindsight, thinking out loud. . And making a bad joke.
Question: Why do people here and everywhere else regularly bash PT... "ProFools" as it's known around these parts? A phrase that not only bashes the product but directly infers the people who use it are kinda stupid?
Answer: Because it happens everywhere on the net. So often so, with every daw on the planet, that nobody should ever get offended by it or feel picked on.
Now do I really have to quote some of the same type of bashing done here? Or can we all just agree that it's just typical everywhere (subjective impressions of bashing or real without a doubt bashing) and/or anywhere daws are discussed, at different levels of prominence or regularity, and not get our panties unnecessarily bunched up about it?
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05-02-2013, 11:57 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w
Seems pretty stupid mentioning KVR
For every bad mention of Reaper on that forum there is at least twenty good mentions
It is constantly at the top of any most used host polls at KVR
Silly thread that more than anything goes to prove the point you wished to disprove
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Ok. I will shut up then...
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05-02-2013, 12:14 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Yeah! SHUT UP Then!
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05-02-2013, 01:39 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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Take users without daw experience and put them on Cubase or Studio one and they will get going in my opinion much easier than in Reaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfpotter
I think it's kind of funny when I hear people say that Reaper is "not user-friendly for new users", although I do understand the statement, somewhat, just because everything is so customizable. However, coming from Cubase SX3, the first time I tried Reaper, I had it installed, up and running, and recording within half an hour. Trust me, that was NOT the way it worked with Cubase!
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05-02-2013, 02:02 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 461
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The analog here is Windows vs OS X. I'm a lifelong Windows user and none of my friends in design or music can understand that. But I get it, Windows is ugly and on the abstruse side for people not familiar with it. But, it works and it works the way I prefer.
The same is true of Reaper. It's not the best looking DAW and the layout and interface aren't exactly inviting. When showing it to producer friends they're always pretty lost at first, as I was. But it only takes about a day to learn the basics and it's very discoverable in that there is an overarching methodology to the workflow and how the various interface elements interact with each other. The learning curve is a bit steep, but once you get past it the application opens up with a depth of functionality I don't think is matched in the industry.
But it's not for everyone. There are things you just can't do in Reaper that you can do in Live and there are some who just want to feel more comfortable with the look and feel of the DAW skin.
While I personally don't really care either way, I think a big step toward more general acceptance of Reaper as a true competitor in the professional DAW market would be a full interface redesign and rebranding (logo, colors, etc.)
I absolutely love Reaper and wouldn't change a thing, but if you take a step back and have an objective look at modern DAWs like LIVE and Reason, you'll see quite a disparity in the UI department between them and Reaper, and that, of course, is the first impression outsiders have.
Last edited by Tycho; 05-02-2013 at 02:58 PM.
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05-02-2013, 02:42 PM
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#13
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oud West, NL
Posts: 2,335
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So now some here are bashing the OP for asking what appears to me to be an honest question, borne out of his personal observations? I realise some of the responding posts were a joke -- the 'shut up' bit -- but some of it wasn't.
Lately, I'm seeing some of the behaviours here at our forum start looking and sounding an awful lot like the immature and outright nasty posts that are all too common over at KVR. I certainly hope this isn't some trend for the future, as I concur with those who say that generally the Reaper forums are more welcoming, with members acting more like mature adults. I don't think we can expect perfection anywhere, but it's not unreasonable to be concerned about this. Fortunately, one thing I don't think I've ever seen at Reaper is the snobbishness that is so common at several of the other DAW forums.
I note that the OP used only KVR as an example. I think this is understandable, as I for one don't frequent the other forums where other Reaper bashing might be occurring. When I'm no longer using another brand of DAW I rarely, if ever, return to its respective forum. I can say that in my former times using Cubase and Ableton Live that I never saw any real attacks against Reaper there. I'd guess that most members of the Reaper forums are more likely to frequent KVR than elsewhere. I know I do because of the ease in finding information about various products and users' reviews of them that I sometimes need. Generally, I only will go to Gearslutz when following links, so I can't say much about that forum.
I will comment about KVR, though. I now know dozens of people -- both personal friends and some colleagues -- who find the forum area of their site to be rather disgusting much of the time and refuse to post or visit there anymore. Although I'll still pass through looking for information, I put my foot down a number of times when met by immature, asinine types who ruin many perfectly good threads with their regular nastiness. I was ultimately blessed to be banned their during one such 'event', and I really can't express here what a blessing that turned out to be. Not only do I no longer end up dealing with the ones who have clear, diagnosable mental disorders, I have put that former waste of time to a much better musical use. Yes, I find that place often disgusting and can understand why our OP here would use KVR as a good example of his topic. I have seen what he describes for myself. I might agree that 'Reaper bashing' is not a huge issue, but it does occur at times and I believe the reasons for it are worth considering. In fact, it intrigues me.
But meanwhile, here at Reaper, I'm getting a little fed up with those members who are all too quick to attack and diss an OP and/or his topic. I'm seeing less and less tolerance, too, of other members' opinions -- members acting as though others somehow don't have the right to express themselves or disagree. I know where most of it is coming from also. It's predominantly one age group. I've seen other forums where these sorts of things have become the norm and, slowly, bit by bit, all the intelligent and truly experience people begin to leave. Then you end of with a forum full of little more than immature 20's wannabees having flame wars, throwing around obscenities, and generally behaving like idiots. Consider for a moment that the people who can help in forums the most -- and usually will out of their own kindness and concern -- are the very ones who need to be here the least.
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05-02-2013, 02:51 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Finally HOME in OREGON!
Posts: 562
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Other Forums?
You mean there are OTHER forums?
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05-02-2013, 03:23 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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i agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tycho
The analog here is Windows vs OS X. I'm a lifelong Windows user and none of my friends in design or music can understand that. But I get it, Windows is ugly and on the abstruse side for people not familiar with it. But, it works and it works the way I prefer.
The same is true of Reaper. It's not the best looking DAW and the layout and interface aren't exactly inviting. When showing it to producer friends they're always pretty lost at first, as I was. But it only takes about a day to learn the basics and it's very discoverable in that there is an overarching methodology to the workflow and how the various interface elements interact with each other. The learning curve is a bit steep, but once you get past it the application opens up with a depth of functionality I don't think is matched in the industry.
But it's not for everyone. There are things you just can't do in Reaper that you can do in Live and there are some who just want to feel more comfortable with the look and feel of the DAW skin.
While I personally don't really care either way, I think a big step toward more general acceptance of Reaper as a true competitor in the professional DAW market would be a full interface redesign and rebranding (logo, colors, etc.)
I absolutely love Reaper and wouldn't change a thing, but if you take a step back and have an objective look at modern DAWs like LIVE and Reason, you'll see quite a disparity in the UI department between them and Reaper, and that, of course, is the first impression outsiders have.
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05-02-2013, 04:03 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Telenator
So now some here are bashing the OP for asking what appears to me to be an honest question, borne out of his personal observations? I realise some of the responding posts were a joke -- the 'shut up' bit -- but some of it wasn't.
Lately, I'm seeing some of the behaviours here at our forum start looking and sounding an awful lot like the immature and outright nasty posts that are all too common over at KVR.
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Sorry, Ivan is a bit immature, what with being only 14 an' that. I'll make sure he sees the error of his ways...
>
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05-02-2013, 04:07 PM
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#17
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,166
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I have two theories ...
1. The Audio Snob theory. For the typical user, REAPER costs only $60. For many other DAW users we are talking about $000s and even sometimes $0,000s. They need to reassure themselves that they have invested wisely. After all, something costing only $60 can't be any good can it.
2. The Lazy Sod theory. I want a DAW which will do absolutely everything that any and all DAWs can possibly do but of course don't expect me to be prepared to invest any time learning how to use it.
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05-02-2013, 04:45 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Simple a matter of critical mass. Just like the bigger the population of the city the more people who don't know each other and so on, the more likely to have problems. There are 54,000 members here and 259,000 on KVR not to mention the disparity in number of threads and products (KVR isn't a DAW which widens the "we have lots in common" gap even further). Get the number that high here, you'll see it degrade accordingly.
People are people wherever they are but different populations and how crammed in they are have a very large effect on their overall behavior. The idea of small town hospitality exists for very real reasons. There are some very great people here but they aren't drowned out by the noise so to speak. It has nothing to do with DAW forums per se, it exists on every forum of every kind with a large enough user base minus the rare exception.
Last edited by karbomusic; 05-02-2013 at 04:50 PM.
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05-02-2013, 05:10 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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people were excited
people got offended
people haven't let it go.
But they're just people.
one thing that is difficult and somewhat annoying about kvr is that not everyone is held to the same standards.
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05-02-2013, 05:20 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,019
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People get touchy in threads comparing their stuff with other people's stuff. Those kinds of threads tend to degenerate pretty quickly, anywhere you find them (including on this forum). It happens with guitars, synthesizers, microphones, cars, cameras... people get their egos and identities caught up in the purchase-decisions they have made, and they take it personal.
Also, Reaper, like all DAWs, has its idiosyncrasies. There are things it doesn't do as well as others.
FWIW, KVR is mostly pretty reasonable in my experience.
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05-02-2013, 05:36 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,185
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REAPER looks ugly and the features and operations are cumbersome. This is not musician friendly. We should not delude ourselves. I can understand the bashing.
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05-02-2013, 05:49 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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right on both counts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas
I have two theories ...
1. The Audio Snob theory. For the typical user, REAPER costs only $60. For many other DAW users we are talking about $000s and even sometimes $0,000s. They need to reassure themselves that they have invested wisely. After all, something costing only $60 can't be any good can it.
2. The Lazy Sod theory. I want a DAW which will do absolutely everything that any and all DAWs can possibly do but of course don't expect me to be prepared to invest any time learning how to use it.
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05-02-2013, 05:50 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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there's also an instance of a developer bashing reaper and comparing it to piracy
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05-02-2013, 05:51 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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reaper doesnt look ugly to me. I use the default theme and think it is damn nice. I used Cubase and Paris before that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mawi
REAPER looks ugly and the features and operations are cumbersome. This is not musician friendly. We should not delude ourselves. I can understand the bashing.
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05-02-2013, 07:44 PM
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#25
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oud West, NL
Posts: 2,335
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I don't find Reaper even close to ugly. The stock 4.x skin would be fine with me and looks professional; however, a few of you chaps have made skins that seriously put to shame some of the pricey DAWs. I simply love anything RADO has, also have one of the Reborn skins and a couple of others -- all incredible. Further, only Zynewave's Podium is as customisable in GUI as far as I've seen. I have Reaper rearranged only moderately, but it helps provide a workflow that never fails to inspire me.
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05-02-2013, 07:50 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 442
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I'm surprised no one mentioned envy. A daw that never crash? Dozens of skins available? Fast as a Formula1 car? Customizable beyond imagination? A daw that doesn't assume it's users are stupid and clumsy? At only $225? Yeah, there is some amount of reaper envy out there, and reaper users envy (especially from people trying to justify their purchase, and of course, to support their lack of willingness to switch daws).
Reaper is a breath of fresh air to the DAW world, and I must say, to the software world in general. And as all good things out there, it have its bashers.
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05-02-2013, 08:21 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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For whatever reasons, there is an understood embarassment at KVR for mentioning Reaper by name. Someone will often say, "R" or, "starts with R", to avoid being called a fanboi, most likely because Reaper has been recommended so much. The embarassment is a bit ridiculous.
Btw, KVR is a bottomless pit of pimping and wanting, just like Gearslutz - what Gearslutz is for hardware, KVR is for software.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
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05-02-2013, 08:34 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mawi
REAPER looks ugly and the features and operations are cumbersome. This is not musician friendly. We should not delude ourselves. I can understand the bashing.
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Reaper looks awesome, and the features and operations are intuitive and easy to use. This is very musician friendly.
See how that works?
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05-02-2013, 08:43 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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I think that Reaper is a bit more on the techy side than the musician side, concerning ease of use, and I think that I pissed some people off by saying that the 4 skin is ugly (don't do it...) when 4 was still in the kitchen. But, Reaper is highly customizable, and as long as the user can figure out how to configure everything, it's factually the best daw on the planet.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
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05-02-2013, 08:46 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 952
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I think some people often forget that many, maybe even a majority of users here, also frequent KVR in some form. The site has it's issues, but any forum of that size will have them. But without KVR, Reaper wouldn't have had quite as fast of a start as it did, and there is plenty of respect for Reaper there.
I think sometimes people take legitimate criticism as "bashing", when in fact, it's not. I am part of "that thread", but I love Reaper. I think that it's fair to have discussions about the negative, and honestly, I don't think the thread really has much actual bashing.
Now, some people here will stick with their idea that people just criticize because they want to "justify" their spending more money on the competition. That's the stupidest argument I've ever seen, and it's disappointing to see some people still hang on to that unfounded argument. Maybe, ironically, those saying that just like justifying their choice of Reaper by finding a way to insult the intelligence of those who don't prefer Reaper? I don't know, but that argument is every bit as immature as those being complained about at KVR.
Or the silly claim that people who prefer another host just like hand holding and being "lazy" and not having to learn. As if everyone would automatically choose Reaper if they just put some effort in? Again, unfounded, and it adds to the reason why people often criticize Reaper.
You see, people who "bash" Reaper are rarely criticizing the application. They are criticizing the attitudes such as those I've just mentioned, which just stink of elitism, something that it seems people only think comes from users of more established hosts.
Reaper is great. It doesn't need to beat anything, or win any polls. If that's what you rely on to make you feel good about your purchase, I feel sad for you.
Just my 2c(most likely unwelcomed by many here, but oh well). Peace.
Brent
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05-02-2013, 08:50 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck
I think that Reaper is a bit more on the techy side than the musician side, concerning ease of use, and I think that I pissed some people off by saying that the 4 skin is ugly (don't do it...) when 4 was still in the kitchen. But, Reaper is highly customizable, and as long as the user can figure out how to configure everything, it's factually the best daw on the planet.
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I agree 100% with it being made more for techs. If you've ever run an analog rig, than there is no problem at all finding your way around Reaper, that same old work flow just keeps on working.
Now what's all this talk about 4 skin????
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05-02-2013, 08:55 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
there's also an instance of a developer bashing reaper and comparing it to piracy
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Where was this?
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05-02-2013, 08:57 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yep
Where was this?
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I remember it, though I don't think it was another host developer. I think it was a mix of a bad opinion with improper wording/language barrier, which didn't help.
Don't remember who it was though.
Brent
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05-02-2013, 09:38 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 39
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I would disagree with a fair few of you; especially those who are insinuating that Reaper is hard to use or 'tech oriented'. I find Reaper exceptionally user friendly. I've tried most DAWs and Reaper was the only one that I didn't find too challenging to operate. I find the learning curve acceptable as well. The knowledge base (ie. you guys) is exceptional and I've never had a problem I couldn't solve simply by posting a thread here.
I've tried Sonar, Pro Tools, and Studio One and always ended up getting stymied quickly. I used Acid Pro for a very long time with little success. I tried Reaper on a whim and everything just went 'Click' and all of a sudden I was recording successfully.
Who cares if people don't like Reaper? Water off a duck's back mate. We all have a great deal of success with it so who cares which direction people's mouths flap in.
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05-02-2013, 09:39 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolkeys
I remember it, though I don't think it was another host developer. I think it was a mix of a bad opinion with improper wording/language barrier, which didn't help.
Don't remember who it was though.
Brent
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I remember the guy. I don't think it had anything to do with language. He was seeing the REAPER model as a threat to SONAR development, or whatever host he was using at the time. He wasn't a developer.
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05-02-2013, 09:48 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IPYF
I would disagree with a fair few of you; especially those who are insinuating that Reaper is hard to use or 'tech oriented'. I find Reaper exceptionally user friendly. I've tried most DAWs and Reaper was the only one that I didn't find too challenging to operate. I find the learning curve acceptable as well. The knowledge base (ie. you guys) is exceptional and I've never had a problem I couldn't solve simply by posting a thread here.
I've tried Sonar, Pro Tools, and Studio One and always ended up getting stymied quickly. I used Acid Pro for a very long time with little success. I tried Reaper on a whim and everything just went 'Click' and all of a sudden I was recording successfully.
Who cares if people don't like Reaper? Water off a duck's back mate. We all have a great deal of success with it so who cares which direction people's mouths flap in.
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But of course, not everyone has that same experience. There are absolutely people who just can't "get" Reaper quickly, no matter their experience. Some people don't "get" Studio One, which personally boggles my mind since it really doesn't get any easier IMO.
So people work differently, come from different hosts, different backgrounds, etc. So for every person who says that Reaper isn't newbie friendly, there is another person who will say that it is.
Brent
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05-02-2013, 09:50 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolkeys
I think sometimes people take legitimate criticism as "bashing", when in fact, it's not. I am part of "that thread", but I love Reaper. I think that it's fair to have discussions about the negative, and honestly, I don't think the thread really has much actual bashing.
Now, some people here will stick with their idea that people just criticize because they want to "justify" their spending more money on the competition. That's the stupidest argument I've ever seen, and it's disappointing to see some people still hang on to that unfounded argument. Maybe, ironically, those saying that just like justifying their choice of Reaper by finding a way to insult the intelligence of those who don't prefer Reaper? I don't know, but that argument is every bit as immature as those being complained about at KVR.
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You're right, there are some things that reaper could do better and on the long run, all the criticism will help it be better.
The thing about justifying might sound stupid, but i know how big is the power of being comfortable with a tool, and the frustration that tool can bring sometimes (crashing, time-consuming, etc) - which can lead to a need of that sort, especially on people who'd rather be active on forums than creating and/or looking for solutions.
Now that I've read that thread, i must say that the discussion have some decent arguments, on why it doesn't meet their expectations. And they are all right, and maybe in time Reaper will address those issues, maybe not.
Personally i agree that it might seem too geeky to someone who doesn't know his way around a computer, or that the user experience can be better (yet, it's the best i've experienced in a daw), but i don't think it's a big problem. And Reaper is still young, there is more to come (even though we're all glad that it achieved such a maturity in a relative short time).
So, long story short, i believe that constructive criticism is good for Reaper and it's users.
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05-02-2013, 09:57 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lerian
You're right, there are some things that reaper could do better and on the long run, all the criticism will help it be better.
The thing about justifying might sound stupid, but i know how big is the power of being comfortable with a tool, and the frustration that tool can bring sometimes (crashing, time-consuming, etc) - which can lead to a need of that sort, especially on people who'd rather be active on forums than creating and/or looking for solutions.
Now that I've read that thread, i must say that the discussion have some decent arguments, on why it doesn't meet their expectations. And they are all right, and maybe in time Reaper will address those issues, maybe not.
Personally i agree that it might seem too geeky to someone who doesn't know his way around a computer, or that the user experience can be better (yet, it's the best i've experienced in a daw), but i don't think it's a big problem. And Reaper is still young, there is more to come (even though we're all glad that it achieved such a maturity in a relative short time).
So, long story short, i believe that constructive criticism is good for Reaper and it's users.
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I agree. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that NOBODY who criticizes Reaper is doing so to justify their spending on another program. I'm just saying that it's tossed around here as if it has a reign of truth in a significant amount of the "bashers", when there is no way anyone can possibly know that.
Sometimes, it's the people making those accusations that seem to be the ones trying to justify. Not always, but I have as much proof of that as they have of their claims, soooooo.....
So I just find those arguments rather stupid, to be honest. It just leaves a bad, elitist impression that wreaks of hypocrisy. I guess it turns out that every host has users like that, not just the "big guys", eh?
But in the end, criticism is absolutely good. And comparison can be good too. There doesn't have to be a "winner", and there never will be. No matter how many features Reaper adds, or how they change it, there will still be people who legitimately don't prefer it. But the comparisons to other hosts do help because they allow proper feature requests to be refined, and they help to avoid the reinventing of the wheel where it doesn't need to be. It helps the devs find ways to make Reaper more welcome to other users and let them know what people are looking for in a host.
Why it always has to be a competition, instead of just a discussion, I don't know.
Brent
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05-02-2013, 10:32 PM
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#39
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oud West, NL
Posts: 2,335
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Yeah, the other thing I don't understand. I can only speak for myself, but coming into Reaper I didn't really find any of it unfriendly. I looked around . . . okay, there are where the tracks go, got a track panel for each one . . . oh, there's the mixer . . . okay, found the plugin browser, think I'll dock that down at the bottom . . . Hm, think I'll dock a few things I'll be referring to often down there too. I mean, what's not to like? It had all its parts, and I found and put everything where I like things to be (since the great feature of customising is offered) . . . had it all how I wanted it in perhaps 15 minutes. Then I discovered the menus can be changed about, so I spent a good half hour putting things in each where I wanted them. Came back the next day and smoothed out any rough edges or things I'd thought of since.
I really think anyone coming in to Reaper from my ancient, track based analogue world ought to feel like he's come home. I know I did.
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05-02-2013, 10:44 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Hear
Posts: 15,618
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%^ 0 YAWN
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