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05-23-2011, 07:03 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,459
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Superior Drummer 2 load times in Reaper?
I have been using EZDrummer for a couple of months and the load times are unbearable - I use 48kHz-24bit and the load time for conversion takes 5 minutes for a kit to load!
Is SD2 "MUCH" faster to load?
__________________
The future ain't what it used to be. Yogi Berra
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05-23-2011, 07:15 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 535
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still takes a while for the bigger sd2 kits. and the SD1 kits take ages to load in sd2 :-/
its the same in all hosts though, not just reaper.
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Producer | Engineer
Previous credits include:
BP Fallon, Emma Lou & The Agenda, The Hot Sprockets, Leaders Of Men, Travis Oaks
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05-23-2011, 07:19 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,459
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thanks - I was thinking of upgrading for the speed...but I guess not.
__________________
The future ain't what it used to be. Yogi Berra
Last edited by Gerry P; 05-23-2011 at 07:29 PM.
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05-23-2011, 08:33 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 742
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I can load a 1gig kit from metal foundry in 15-20 seconds..maybe less. The old SD1 kits do take quite a lot longer though. A 500 meg kit is loaded completely before I can open the gui on SD2. Hope that helps.
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05-23-2011, 09:57 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,031
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Are you talking of the kit loading or the plug in? If it's the kit load, I know of what you speak with ez drummer. It is astounding that TT hasn't fixed this.
The best workaround I've found is to tap on all the keys of my midi controller LOL!
On my system (see specs below) SD loads pretty quickly, ymmv
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05-23-2011, 10:08 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,533
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Is the step from DDR2 to DDR3 system RAM going to show any noticeable improvement for load times (of any samples?)
I use Superior Drummer with Drumkit from Hell Superior and Custom & Vintage. Load times are also about 5 minutes, if I have all mic leakage on.
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05-23-2011, 10:22 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,031
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Hmmmmmm, not sure I follow.
I have ddr2 (it's a 1156 board) and my SD 2.2.3 load times are in the seconds range, especially kits like C/V that are not as ram happy.
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05-23-2011, 10:58 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 742
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I use ddr3 at 1333, my load times are not that bad IMO. I can't speak of Ezdrummer though....never used it.
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05-23-2011, 11:36 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 27
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SD2 load times
The bigger the kit the longer the load time. I think that this is more of an issue of Hard drive speed. It has to load in to RAM and that's what takes so long. This is were a solid state hard drive could really help.
Richard
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05-23-2011, 11:42 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Fast SATA3 drive, 8gb DDR3 1333 and an AMD 6 core.
Loads in no time at all, either one.
Fast SATA2 drive, 2gb DDR2 and an AMD 2 core
EZD quite slow loading, and I don`t have Superior on this machine but would bet it IS slow.
The classic PC software conundrum...there is always a bottleneck somewhere.
Fast system = fast load.
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05-23-2011, 11:46 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,031
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But that doesn't explain why EZdrummer takes a while to load. I've complained about this for years.
I just did a little test and even in the superior wrapper, ezx kits are taking longer to load (ezx "classic" about 40 sec, ny "avatar" about 25) and the superior kit is DOUBLE the size
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05-24-2011, 04:47 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,025
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EZDrummer can take a long time to load if your project sample rate is anything other than 44.1, because the samples will be converted as they are loaded. If you switch to 44.1, it will load very quickly. It's not that there's something to fix, it's just the way it is.
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05-24-2011, 05:23 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 77
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Takes very little time to load my Superior Kit.
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05-24-2011, 05:53 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,459
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The problem is when using EZDrummer at a sample rate other than 44.1k.
I run Reaper at 48k and my 4 cores are over 90% for the 4 or 5 minutes during the conversion/loading of a kit.
While EZD is 16bits-44.1k, I know that SD2 is 24bits but because they do not specify the sample rate at their site, I can only assume that the SD2 samples are also 44.1k.
So it would appear SD2 would still need this conversion time if using a 48k system.
__________________
The future ain't what it used to be. Yogi Berra
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05-24-2011, 06:30 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisharbin
But that doesn't explain why EZdrummer takes a while to load. I've complained about this for years.
I just did a little test and even in the superior wrapper, ezx kits are taking longer to load (ezx "classic" about 40 sec, ny "avatar" about 25) and the superior kit is DOUBLE the size
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There is a difference in how the samples are stored for EZdrummer versus Superior Drummer 2. EZdrummer samples are stored individually on the hard drive. When a different sample rate other than 44.1kHz is used, each sample needs to be resampled to compensate for the pitch shift. For quality sake, the computation isn't trivial so loading time is significantly increased.
Superior Drummer 2 samples are stored as sound bunches in Toontrack's proprietary .obw format. Resampling the sound bunches is a faster process than resampling each individual sample (EZdrummer format).
I hope that clears things up a bit.
__________________
Scott Sibley
Technical Advisor-Toontrack Music
Owner•Engineer•Producer
Rainbow Sounds Recording
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05-24-2011, 07:21 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_sibs
Resampling the sound bunches is a faster process than resampling each individual sample (EZdrummer format)
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Is the resampling time "significantly" faster in SD2 vs EZD?
I need to be assured that I will go from 4 minutes load time for a kit in EZD to say <30secs for loading an SD2 kit at 48k.
__________________
The future ain't what it used to be. Yogi Berra
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05-24-2011, 07:40 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry P
Is the resampling time "significantly" faster in SD2 vs EZD?
I need to be assured that I will go from 4 minutes load time for a kit in EZD to say <30secs for loading an SD2 kit at 48k.
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Well, I just created a new 48kHz project in Reaper and loaded the default Avatar kit in S2 and it loaded in 20sec. This is from an external 1TB Seagate USB hard drive.
__________________
Scott Sibley
Technical Advisor-Toontrack Music
Owner•Engineer•Producer
Rainbow Sounds Recording
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05-24-2011, 07:46 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 96
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In addition, I just check loading some EZXs in S2 at 48kHz. Most kits take a bit over 1 min to load.
__________________
Scott Sibley
Technical Advisor-Toontrack Music
Owner•Engineer•Producer
Rainbow Sounds Recording
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05-24-2011, 08:39 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 27
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Thanks for the info Scott. Learned something new.
Richard
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05-24-2011, 09:06 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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yet another reason to stick to 44.1 24 bit then.
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05-24-2011, 11:53 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,924
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I've had EZX taking longer than SDX, but I presumed that this was due to them being 16 bit rather than 24-bit. I'm up and running in less than about 30 seconds though, not sure how you guys are gumming it up.
Longest times were for a test project with three instances of SD loading different things (drums, percussion, etc), still much less than a minute.
>
Edit: my libraries are on a dedicated drive, might this make a difference?
>
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05-24-2011, 01:14 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brazil
Posts: 447
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I have no problems loading SD2 here, about 5 seconds, depending on how large the kit is.
However, I have a dedicated hard drive to store all my sample libraries.
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05-24-2011, 01:19 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia (originally from Geelong)
Posts: 5,598
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SD2 loads quite fast here on my studio rig (Q9450, 8Gig RAM, Win7 64, SD2 64 bit, REAPER 4 b6 32 bit).
Even this kit loads in less than 30 seconds (this is an old image from REAPER V3 days)...
(click pic for larger image)
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05-24-2011, 01:47 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_sibs
There is a difference in how the samples are stored for EZdrummer versus Superior Drummer 2. EZdrummer samples are stored individually on the hard drive. When a different sample rate other than 44.1kHz is used, each sample needs to be resampled to compensate for the pitch shift. For quality sake, the computation isn't trivial so loading time is significantly increased.
Superior Drummer 2 samples are stored as sound bunches in Toontrack's proprietary .obw format. Resampling the sound bunches is a faster process than resampling each individual sample (EZdrummer format).
I hope that clears things up a bit.
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It does thanks.
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05-24-2011, 01:49 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
yet another reason to stick to 44.1 24 bit then.
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I always work at 44.1 simply because there is always some conversion issue with other sample rates. My "stuff" usually works better just making the sacrafice.
Thought I think things like live recording (guitar/bass) seem to be different in other rates, 44.1 with todays tech is perfectly acceptable.
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05-24-2011, 06:42 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Posts: 92
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EZ Drummer Load Time
Gerry, I had the same problem. I can't guarantee it will work for you, but I reinstalled EZ Drummer and it took care of the problem. The very next time I went into it, it was loading the samples much faster. I have SD too, which still loads faster, but not a tremendous amount faster. Good luck. BTW, if you install on the same machine you are currently using, it doesn't have to re-activate or anything. You may want to go to Toontrack also and make sure you have the latest version.
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05-24-2011, 11:17 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Since I have plenty of room for more drives and SATA connections, does the Team Think I should "invest" in a third hard drive for sample libraries only?
And is it worthwhile sticking all my VST VSTi on the same drive, or can they stay where they are?
Now no kneejerk "more is better" here, guys - give me a balanced speed and space versus power consumption and risk argument....
Just thinking about what this would engender posted on Gearslutz!!
(grin)
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05-25-2011, 03:53 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannii
SD2 loads quite fast here on my studio rig (Q9450, 8Gig RAM, Win7 64, SD2 64 bit, REAPER 4 b6 32 bit).
Even this kit loads in less than 30 seconds (this is an old image from REAPER V3 days)...
(click pic for larger image)
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Woah, where did you get all that other shit from?
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05-25-2011, 05:26 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
Since I have plenty of room for more drives and SATA connections, does the Team Think I should "invest" in a third hard drive for sample libraries only?
And is it worthwhile sticking all my VST VSTi on the same drive, or can they stay where they are?
Now no kneejerk "more is better" here, guys - give me a balanced speed and space versus power consumption and risk argument....
Just thinking about what this would engender posted on Gearslutz!!
(grin)
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That would depend on which type/kind VSTs you're talking about and how many of them you are running at the same time.
For example, if you're doing large orchestra scoring mock-ups and have separate sound libraries for sections (strings, woodwinds, brass, percussion, etc.) and those sound libraries use disc streaming, you would benefit from having those sections on fast, separate drives. Perhaps, even on separate computers.
For less elaborate needs, you may be able to use a 3 hard drive system. A system drive, an audio drive, and a sample drive. Personally, if you're any kind of serious about audio recording, a 3 drive system would be minimum.
Currently I use 2 external hard drives that I have my sample VST libraries spread over. One is mostly for Toontrack libraries as I have them all and they take up quite a bit of space. All Toontrack sounds load entirely into RAM so they can be on any type of drive including the OS drive. It's more of a space issue than any performance issue.
__________________
Scott Sibley
Technical Advisor-Toontrack Music
Owner•Engineer•Producer
Rainbow Sounds Recording
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05-25-2011, 05:49 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,924
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Ivan, it might help, sticking your SD libraries on a separate HDD, if only for the fact that they'll then be "defragged"/optimised as they were copied to a blank drive (I think that might help, but happy to be proved wrong)
If they share a drive that is busy when the VSTi is loaded, this will slow it down.
Which makes me wonder: for the guys who are suffering extended loading times, are there other things loading from the drive at the same time?
just an idea...
>
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05-25-2011, 04:31 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia (originally from Geelong)
Posts: 5,598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Prawn
Woah, where did you get all that other shit from?
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That's a combination of three libraries: the stock NY kit, the Custom and Vintage SDX and the Twisted Kit EZX. The layout pretty well matches the physical layout of my Roland V Drums kit (three modules and two racks stacked together).
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10-16-2013, 01:21 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,199
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Old thread, I know.. but...
Recently been using 64-bit Reaper, with 64-bit Superior 2.
My default Avatar kit takes over a minute to load (about 90 seconds). With the 32-bit version of Reaper, it loads in about 20 seconds or less. What gives? The samples are stored on an external HD (2TB USB 2.0). I also store video files on this drive (YouTube stuff, etc).
I have a duo-core tower (Win 7, 64-bit) with 8GB ram.
The whole point of 64-bit is to have stuff load faster, usually...
guess I'll stick with 32-bit for now?
Any thoughts?
Thanks guys!
PS I should mention that I don't use AV or any of that crap (the computer is offline, 24/7). No background tasks other than the typical crap.... it runs really smooth most of the time, but loading kits... ugh.
Oh, and I just noticed my other expansion kits (jazz, indie folk) also load slowly. Jazz much more slowly than Indie Folk... and this is on the 32-bit version, too... so weird.
Last edited by themixtape; 10-16-2013 at 01:38 PM.
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10-16-2013, 01:45 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,459
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(not Superior, I know)
I just tested the Claustrophobic kit in EZDrummer - 20 secs.
Settings: 44.1kHz 24bit
...now I was a complainer when I first started using EZDrummer...it took a minute++ to load kits.
I think upsampling kills it...
__________________
The future ain't what it used to be. Yogi Berra
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10-16-2013, 01:57 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,199
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Hmm. Yeah, I always load them default (24-bit, 44.1)... my projects have been 44.1 16-bit for years with no loading issues.
Could it be the hard drive going or just "running slowly"? Sometimes drives do that. It just started basically today. Last week it was fine.
Some kits still load fast (Avatar). Changing back and forth from Avatar to Jazz to Indie Folk... fast, slow, slow.
So I dunno
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10-16-2013, 02:17 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape
Hmm. Yeah, I always load them default (24-bit, 44.1)... my projects have been 44.1 16-bit for years with no loading issues.
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How about a new session at 44.1/24? Any difference in load times?
Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape
Could it be the hard drive going or just "running slowly"? Sometimes drives do that. It just started basically today. Last week it was fine.
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I have only used Western Digital HDD...drives have gone south twice in many, many years...and both times they gave me a warning...I have never lost data in 15+ years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape
Some kits still load fast (Avatar). Changing back and forth from Avatar to Jazz to Indie Folk... fast, slow, slow.
So I dunno
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Do you have Claustrophobic? What's the load time?
__________________
The future ain't what it used to be. Yogi Berra
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10-16-2013, 03:10 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Down Under
Posts: 2,148
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I don't know actual load times and my computer is old with 2gb of ram win XP
The superior default avatar and the SDX lib's load much faster in SD2 than the EZX lib's i have, i've never bothered to find out why even though it can be frustrating sometimes.
Sorry, not much help i know.
Cheers
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10-17-2013, 01:55 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Prawn
Takes very little time to load my Superior Kit.
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Same here. Now Miroslav Philharmonik...that takes a while. I have that on an external drive. But SD is almost immediate.
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