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Old 11-17-2012, 09:57 AM   #1
ilr
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Default In-item time stretching using markers (á la Elastic audio/Flex-time)

In-item time stretching using markers á la elastic audio, flex-time, ect....

Please vote here:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4460

Note: I know this has been outlined a couple of times. But it hasn't gained the momentum it needs. I'm giving a more detailed feature request/suggestion for this. Also note that by markers I don't mean the normal markers used for navigation, but special "time stretch markers" arisen from the ones created during the dynamic split dialog.


In short

Time stretching within items using markers, without the need to split items. Also the possibility to create and use groove templates for quantization.


The following video gives a general demonstration (might want to watch in HD):


- time stretching within an item by moving markers
- creation of these markers manually or via dynamic split
also:
- saving such marker positions as "grooves"
- quantizing audio (item positions or in-item time stretch) and midi to "grooves"







In long

Time stretch markers should be able to be created both manually via action/mouse modifier and automatically via the dynamic split dialog. Markers must be editable. Shifting around, deleting, selecting. The mouse could change it's function when hovered above a marker. Pressing alt, ctrl, ect. to switch between mouse functions (i.e. add/delete/shift) would make sense. An action like "add time stretch marker under mouse in item and grouped tracks" would be highly useful.
Markers should then be able to be shifted around and snapped to grid (if enabled) thereby time stretching and quantizing the audio.
Automatically quantizing the audio via markers should be possible including a strength option and an exclude option (in ms) leaving all markers untouched within the defined distance to the grid.
It should be possible to select which markers are to be quantized when using the "Quantize Items" dialog.



Taking it a step further

In addition to quantizing, a very useful option would be to create groove templates from the markers generated by the dynamic split function and manually set markers:




MIDI and audio (both item position quantizing and quantizing via time stretch markers) could then be quantized to a saved groove:


(obviously in this case you wouldn't quantize an item to it's own groove because nothing would change...)


Useful could be a function that allows to quantize items to the grid at points where no user groove information was obtained. Example:
A kick drum track is used to create a user groove. A bass track is then quantized to the user groove (=kick), so that bass and kick line up. However, with the aforementioned function the bass track is also quantized when the kick is not playing, namely to the grid. The result is a bass track that is tight on the grid and also locks in the groove with the kick drum. With this function turned off, I suggest to quantize near where groove information is available and leave the the rest untouched.


An option titled something like "adaptive quantizing" could further improve the musicality of the quantizing:
Instead of moving all markers/items/notes to the grid by a fixed ratio like "strength" does, the user sets the maximal distance from the grid and all markers/items/notes will be quantized to be within that distance no matter what. However, in addition to this, the greater the distance between marker/item/note and grid the more quantizing will be applied. On the other hand, markers/items/notes that are already close to the grid will experience little to no further quantization.

To take this even further, a timing bias (not unlike the one in the midi humanizing dialog) could be implemented to ensure that for example all markers/items/notes before the desired grid position will be quantized 100% while markers/items/notes that were originally placed somewhere after the grid are only quantized as much as the "strength" or "adaptive quantizing" allow, resulting - in this case - in a laid back feel.

At this point, I also want to bring forward the idea of having a global swing amount that is automatable like the tempo and that is made visible by the grid, thus snapping items or quantizing items/markers with a swing if desired.


The reason

Achieving elastic audio-like effects is currently only possible when splitting items, resulting in severe clicks and pops at item transitions. Cross fades bring little help as they are inconvenient and degrade the audio especially on monophonic signals.
A solid implementation of groove quantization (via time stretch and conventional item position shifting) is one of the last things that keep REAPER from keeping up with the "big" DAWs. Let's change that. Amen.


Please vote here:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4460

Last edited by ilr; 11-19-2012 at 08:01 AM. Reason: added link for voting
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:15 AM   #2
MichaJo
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WOW! That's what i call a Feature Request!
Seldom seen such an elaborated FR.

(this is your first post here...? great debut! )

+1

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Old 11-17-2012, 10:20 AM   #3
EvilDragon
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Now put it in the Tracker so we can vote. And welcome! But it seems like you've been lurking for a while.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:24 AM   #4
ilr
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So I basically create the same thread in here:

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?projectid=2 ?

Is that right?
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:27 AM   #5
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Yep.

Tracker is for voting. This forum section is for discussion about the FR. Link from here to there and from there to here. Think with portals.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:42 AM   #6
ilr
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Alright, here we go then. I just added a paragraph, suggesting to the snap time stretch markers to zero crossing if this helps the time stretch algorithms.
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