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04-04-2011, 03:45 AM
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#41
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 1,091
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First align the drums to the grid... then align the guitars to the grid and then bass.
Go just before a transient, hit the s key, go just before the next note starts hit the s key and slide it to align with the grid...
Doesn't take that long..
BTW, since you recorded a live guitar, forget about doing it on that. You need a nice di signal to see the transients. Which is why reamping is so nice, or re-cording a di track along with a real amp..
~Rob.
Last edited by junioreq; 04-04-2011 at 03:55 AM.
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04-04-2011, 05:55 AM
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#43
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junioreq
First align the drums to the grid... then align the guitars to the grid and then bass.
Go just before a transient, hit the s key, go just before the next note starts hit the s key and slide it to align with the grid...
Doesn't take that long..
BTW, since you recorded a live guitar, forget about doing it on that. You need a nice di signal to see the transients. Which is why reamping is so nice, or re-cording a di track along with a real amp..
~Rob.
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Won't the guitar sound completely out of whack then if I slip edit everything but it?
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04-04-2011, 05:56 AM
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#44
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 1,091
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Yeah.....This is why its important to reamp, or record a di signal along with the amp and group the di and amp signals. (di is so you can see the transients)...
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04-04-2011, 05:58 AM
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#46
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junioreq
Yeah.....
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So then there's no point in doing it for this song?
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04-04-2011, 07:24 AM
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#47
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 3,000
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The timing/drum sync in the mix you linked to in the PM you sent is better than whatever was under the link in your original post as of last night. There are still some lurchy moments. Not as as bad as previously, but still distracting.
Was any part of this recorded to a click? If so, then you should be able to clean up timing fairly easily. Even if you can't see the transients clearly, the ones you need for timing purposes will still be located either on, or a consistent distance ahead of, the grid.
Unrelated to timing issues....
IMV, the intro is too long, especially given how simple it's two sections are. But rather than shorten each of them (eg, by half), I would suggest scrapping that intro altogether. You should replace it with that gtr-and-drum-roll hook, making that the first thing we hear. I would then find a way to add over that, or perhaps briefly after it, a riff or two from the first lead gtr solo, or at least its sound, before falling directly into the song. As it stands now your letting those hooks go to waste in favor or a boring vamp on the basic chords (this is a common oversight of self-producing songwriters, who never develop intros beyond what amounts useless warm up vamping.)
Exploit your hooks. I wouldn't worry much about intros until the production has been more developed, then I'd just construct an intro out of bits of the best hooks from the main body.
Also, I would shorten the inst sections that come between the the vrs/cho sets: keep the song moving forward, and don't waste time with yet more vamping.
Besides being boring and old school, another advantage to shortening these "empty" sections is that it will give you more time for the 'slowdown' section that that currently starts at around 4:30.
There's really no need for this song to run to 5:33. I think with some structure tweaking -- including moving your hooks forward into a shorter sharper intro, you could probably be out by 4:30 at the latest (that's still long, for this song, IMO), and not miss a thing.
Still reminds me the Eagles (long flat intros and even-length vampy inter sections) but now I also hear some echoes of Badfinger.
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04-04-2011, 07:31 AM
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#48
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 825
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Yes recorded to a click. I'm going to try and slip edit 30 seconds of the song and see if it's possible. Drums are easy, guitar might not be as it's hard to see the transients. Are there any spots that standout to you as being out of time?
Which is the drum/roll hook? Like at 0:46?
http://www.box.net/shared/lbmxb567dl
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04-04-2011, 07:47 AM
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#49
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 3,000
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yes. at :046. I would try to come up with an intro that used some that hook, or some variation of it, so that the whole intro is 4 or possibly 5 measures and the song kicks in strong, right after it. That hook identifies the song, so why not use it at the top? It also gets some excitement right up front.
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04-04-2011, 07:59 AM
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#50
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 825
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That never occured to me but I will try it out!
I will say though that the into as it stands now works well live as it's a nice contrast between just the one guitar and then the whole band kicks in.
But works well live, does not always work on record.
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04-04-2011, 08:04 AM
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#51
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 3,000
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If the guitars etc were cut to a click, and are tight with each other, then finding transients should be much of an issue. And, if they were cut to a click, then it's the drums that need to moved to conform to them, not the other way around, unless I'm not understanding something.
Usually, even with compressed or low-transient guitars, you can cut at a grid line, or move percussive sounds TO the grid line, and they should line up OK, since the grid line is what they were cut to.
Reaper's item offset feature is really useful for this kind of thing. It's not easy to explain how it works, but it's really good for lining up attacks that are slightly pre-grid to the grid. But again, tracks that were done to the grid shouldn't need much corrective position shifting.
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04-04-2011, 08:05 AM
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#52
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 825
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Well they were recorded to a click but it doesn't mean they are in time all the time. You know what I mean? Human error and all that.
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04-05-2011, 10:10 AM
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#53
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 825
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I tried to slip edit everything and it was a nightmare. I don't see how you'd do this after the guitars are recorded. Cool thing to know though for future recordings after the drums/bass are recorded.
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04-06-2011, 07:39 PM
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#54
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 825
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K I think I figured this out. It didn't work editing the timing of the drums and bass because you couldn't edit the guitar as it's a miced amp so no transients. What I did was just spot edit the drums and bass but playing close attention to how it lined up with the guitars! Essentially I lined everything up to the guitars instead of the other way around. This coupled with a tweaked version of Junior EQ's mix and I think it's good!
http://www.box.net/shared/ba0q18ikns
Last edited by Guncho; 04-08-2011 at 04:01 AM.
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04-07-2011, 03:01 PM
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#55
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,696
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this has definately improved a bunch from the first one you posted. I listned through and didn't hear any glaring stuff. A couple spots still have a "not quite in the pocket" feel but overall its not too distracting.
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