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Old 11-30-2015, 02:02 AM   #1
noise_construct
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Default Reaper for VSTi-based MIDI music (for video)

Hi,

I've returned to music after a long break and I'm currently going through the arduous task of choosing a DAW. Reaper has some very nice features, it's way more painful to get up and running than any software I've used before, but part of it's power probably lies in the myriad of setup options.

However, it feels like VST instruments were not part of the original design, and their implementation and inclusion in the workflow leaves a lot to be desired. How feasible it is to use software synths for original music creation in Reaper?

I've spent a couple of days now configuring the MIDI editor, and I believe it can be tweaked to be useable. Is it possible to tweak Reaper so it considers VSTis as instruments (sound source), and not effects? Is there an undo feature?

Do you use mainly software instruments with Reaper? How long did it take for you to set this program up?

Have you used Reaper for scoring video or sound design?
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Old 11-30-2015, 02:15 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by noise_construct View Post
Hi,

I've returned to music after a long break and I'm currently going through the arduous task of choosing a DAW. Reaper has some very nice features, it's way more painful to get up and running than any software I've used before, but part of it's power probably lies in the myriad of setup options.

However, it feels like VST instruments were not part of the original design, and their implementation and inclusion in the workflow leaves a lot to be desired. How feasible it is to use software synths for original music creation in Reaper?

I've spent a couple of days now configuring the MIDI editor, and I believe it can be tweaked to be useable. Is it possible to tweak Reaper so it considers VSTis as instruments (sound source), and not effects? Is there an undo feature?

Do you use mainly software instruments with Reaper? How long did it take for you to set this program up?

Have you used Reaper for scoring video or sound design?
Sounds like you need to check out the manual. There are tons of youtube tutorials for free and Groove 3 is fantastic. They have an all access pass now on sale, thats what I have. Their are lots of posts about excellent free VSTi plugins available. I bought Sampletank and consider that a great start. Good luck and welcome.
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Old 11-30-2015, 03:02 AM   #3
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Sounds like you need to check out the manual. There are tons of youtube tutorials for free and Groove 3 is fantastic. They have an all access pass now on sale, thats what I have. Their are lots of posts about excellent free VSTi plugins available. I bought Sampletank and consider that a great start. Good luck and welcome.
Unfortunately the manual doesn't really provide the answers to my questions above, and there really aren't that many youtube videos about MIDI composing workflow in Reaper. Lots of stuff covering the basics, which isn't exactly rocket science in any DAW.
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Old 11-30-2015, 03:18 AM   #4
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You are holding your mouth wrong. (old Tennessee expression)

About 50% of my stuff is VSTi and MIDI based.

And yes you really can find all the info you need either on the net/youtube or in the manual.
But it isn't immediately obvious unless you already know how to use VSTis.

Assuming you have access to some virtual instruments - there are a ton of free but good ones out there - you will need to install them in Reaper in a folder you designate as being for plugins. Many plugs will auto-install themselves in C:Steinberg/plugins because Steinberg invented the hole VST/VSTi thing.
DO NOT install them in the Reaperplugins directory, this is purely for reaper specific pugs.

Once you have a VSTi installed, it is simply a question of inserting it as an FX on a track, as in any other Daw and then hitting it with input from your preferred MIDI input device (keyboard) or mousing notes in.

Can I suggest that you take advantage of the sale on at groove3.com on tutorial videos, especially thse done by Kenny Giaoia (sp) - h also has a bunch of very good free tutorials on the net.

P.S. If you are coming from Sonar I really dont see why any of this shoul dbe foreign to you. I baled at 8.5.3 & have never looked back.
Reaper is far far easier to set up and use than Sonar ever was, but you do have to leave your preconceptions at the door.
Oh and there are a bunch of folks doing post and indeed full blown video productions on here.
And I am sure they will be happy to help. But in response to your comment about the ids "only showing the basics" VST/VSTi installation IS covered pretty well in the basics. I am afraid I can provide a link but there is a specific thread on here leading to a download entitled something like Sonar to Reaper migration or Reaper for sonar user.
I will see if I can find it, but you might want to have a look for it as well.

Stick with it & good luck
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Old 11-30-2015, 04:06 AM   #5
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However, it feels like VST instruments were not part of the original design, and their implementation and inclusion in the workflow leaves a lot to be desired. How feasible it is to use software synths for original music creation in Reaper?

Is it possible to tweak Reaper so it considers VSTis as instruments (sound source), and not effects? Is there an undo feature?

Do you use mainly software instruments with Reaper? How long did it take for you to set this program up?
Reaper uses the generic term "effects" (or "FX") for both instrument and effects plug-ins. Many people here load the instruments as mentioned above, record / edit / humanise / quantize the MIDI on the tracks, add effects plug-ins as needed then render / bounce the MIDI into audio when they are happy with it.

From your post I think that you might wish to capture the audio directly from the instrument plug-ins and work with that. Many do that too - all that is needed it to Record the (audio) Output of the track. Right-click the RecArm button for the menu choices. Of course, this means that any incoming MIDI is not recorded so the flexibility of editing the MIDI is not available. Once you have the audio, then you can apply effects plug-ins as desired.

Will that do what you're after?
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Old 11-30-2015, 07:02 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
You are holding your mouth wrong. (old Tennessee expression)

About 50% of my stuff is VSTi and MIDI based.

And yes you really can find all the info you need either on the net/youtube or in the manual.
But it isn't immediately obvious unless you already know how to use VSTis.

Assuming you have access to some virtual instruments - there are a ton of free but good ones out there - you will need to install them in Reaper in a folder you designate as being for plugins. Many plugs will auto-install themselves in C:Steinberg/plugins because Steinberg invented the hole VST/VSTi thing.
DO NOT install them in the Reaperplugins directory, this is purely for reaper specific pugs.

Once you have a VSTi installed, it is simply a question of inserting it as an FX on a track, as in any other Daw and then hitting it with input from your preferred MIDI input device (keyboard) or mousing notes in.

Can I suggest that you take advantage of the sale on at groove3.com on tutorial videos, especially thse done by Kenny Giaoia (sp) - h also has a bunch of very good free tutorials on the net.

P.S. If you are coming from Sonar I really dont see why any of this shoul dbe foreign to you. I baled at 8.5.3 & have never looked back.
Reaper is far far easier to set up and use than Sonar ever was, but you do have to leave your preconceptions at the door.
Oh and there are a bunch of folks doing post and indeed full blown video productions on here.
And I am sure they will be happy to help. But in response to your comment about the ids "only showing the basics" VST/VSTi installation IS covered pretty well in the basics. I am afraid I can provide a link but there is a specific thread on here leading to a download entitled something like Sonar to Reaper migration or Reaper for sonar user.
I will see if I can find it, but you might want to have a look for it as well.

Stick with it & good luck
Thanks, I do know how to use VSTs having started with them when Cubase VST/32 was released. This isn't a "How do I VST" post, I'm trying to find out whether it's possible or worthwhile to establish a 100% softsynth-based workflow in Reaper, as it certainly doesn't do that right out of the box.

I've spent almost a week exporing and configuring Reaper, and I'm still not entirely convinced if I shouldn't just go for Ableton instead, and somehow work around all it's shortcomings. So that's why I'm asking if here are any users that use Reaper as their virtual synth studio- it's obviously awesome program for recording, editing and mixing music played with real instruments, and there's plenty of videos to suppor that.

Speaking of videos, this is rather telling https://player.groove3.com/&itemid=6375

Not even a mention of VSTis.
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Old 11-30-2015, 07:05 AM   #7
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I'm trying to find out whether it's possible or worthwhile to establish a 100% softsynth-based workflow in Reaper, as it certainly doesn't do that right out of the box.

So that's why I'm asking if here are any users that use Reaper as their virtual synth studio
Yes, it is.
Yes, I, and I suspect many others, do.

What particular functionality are you looking for / do you feel is missing / awkward?
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Old 11-30-2015, 07:22 AM   #8
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Hi,

I've returned to music after a long break and I'm currently going through the arduous task of choosing a DAW. Reaper has some very nice features, it's way more painful to get up and running than any software I've used before, but part of it's power probably lies in the myriad of setup options.

However, it feels like VST instruments were not part of the original design, and their implementation and inclusion in the workflow leaves a lot to be desired. How feasible it is to use software synths for original music creation in Reaper?

I've spent a couple of days now configuring the MIDI editor, and I believe it can be tweaked to be useable. Is it possible to tweak Reaper so it considers VSTis as instruments (sound source), and not effects? Is there an undo feature?

Do you use mainly software instruments with Reaper? How long did it take for you to set this program up?

Have you used Reaper for scoring video or sound design?
Yes, I have.
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Old 11-30-2015, 07:26 AM   #9
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Weird requirements... I've been using VSTi's with reaper from the beginning with no real issues and at the moment that 99.9% of what I do.

There are few caveats though. When your needs for larger orchestrations increase you'll find that Reaper has many things missing to give you really fluent control over complex multi-timbral setups and composing.

But other than that VSTi with Reaper works like in any DAW...

I would certainly like to know more about what the OP is trying to say.
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Old 11-30-2015, 11:59 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by noise_construct View Post
Hi,

I've returned to music after a long break and I'm currently going through the arduous task of choosing a DAW. Reaper has some very nice features, it's way more painful to get up and running than any software I've used before, but part of it's power probably lies in the myriad of setup options.

However, it feels like VST instruments were not part of the original design, and their implementation and inclusion in the workflow leaves a lot to be desired. How feasible it is to use software synths for original music creation in Reaper?

I've spent a couple of days now configuring the MIDI editor, and I believe it can be tweaked to be useable. Is it possible to tweak Reaper so it considers VSTis as instruments (sound source), and not effects? Is there an undo feature?

Do you use mainly software instruments with Reaper? How long did it take for you to set this program up?

Have you used Reaper for scoring video or sound design?
It sounds as if your asking if Reaper can be a sequencer, and the answer is yes. Unless I'm gravely mistaken, and I have known to be that.
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:07 PM   #11
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Weird requirements... I've been using VSTi's with reaper from the beginning with no real issues and at the moment that 99.9% of what I do.

There are few caveats though. When your needs for larger orchestrations increase you'll find that Reaper has many things missing to give you really fluent control over complex multi-timbral setups and composing.

But other than that VSTi with Reaper works like in any DAW...

I would certainly like to know more about what the OP is trying to say.
Well it's certainly encouraging to hear that others use Reaper for VSTis. I've just had a frustrating and tedious experience so far, unlike in other hosts I've used or tried- it's been an uphill struggle against weirdly set preferences, shortcuts, strange conventions and very poorly designed UI. With other DAWs you can get a composition going without wanting to punch the mouse thru you screen.

Granted, I've never used any similar software (DAWs or NLEs) with this much configuration options, which is what keeps me trying with Reaper. And the piano roll. I'm still optimistic that one day I got it set up properly

Let's ask my question in another way- why did you choose Reaper instead of other options for soft synth -based workflow? What are your favourite features for this type of use, and did you discover them during the trial period?
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:12 PM   #12
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What are your favourite features for this type of use, and did you discover them during the trial period?
My favorite feature was the price. I'm glad I stumbled onto it. Yeah there are some things that you have to work at and some that you don't, but for the price I was willing to work on that. So far I'm glad I'm using it. Even if I have to do things a little harder,
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Old 11-30-2015, 03:34 PM   #13
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I've just had a frustrating and tedious experience so far, unlike in other hosts I've used or tried- it's been an uphill struggle against weirdly set preferences, shortcuts, strange conventions and very poorly designed UI.
Sorry, but for us to help you can you please specify which functionality you are looking for or feel is missing / awkward? Otherwise we will only be guessing and end up posting irrelevant info.

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With other DAWs you can get a composition going without wanting to punch the mouse thru you screen.
You can with Reaper too.

Yes, there is a learning curve and Reaper does have loads of configuration settings, but you do not need to know them all let alone set them.
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Old 11-30-2015, 04:48 PM   #14
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Let's ask my question in another way- why did you choose Reaper instead of other options for soft synth -based workflow? What are your favourite features for this type of use, and did you discover them during the trial period?
I come from a classical music background -- somebody on the Sibelius forum suggested Reaper to me, I tried it and liked it and never looked back.

The big pros for me are the stability, flexibility, and the ability to set up any kind of midi / audio signal flow without fuss.
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Old 11-30-2015, 11:10 PM   #15
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Do you use mainly software instruments with Reaper?
I do mainly use Reaper for VSTis but in fact not with Midi editor, but with live playing using master keyboards, and I am extremely happy with this.

But I suppose you phrased your question wrong and you don't want to ask about VSTi handling, but about editing Midi data. This in fact is unrelated, as Reaper also can send Midi Data to an interface and you can use external hardware midi instruments, as well, avoiding VSTis.

Regarding Midi Editor: I never used it, but from what I read, I have the impression, that e.g. CuBase might have advantages with Midi editing, while regarding audio handling, Reaper is hard to beat.

-Michael
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Old 12-01-2015, 01:18 AM   #16
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Speaking of videos, this is rather telling https://player.groove3.com/&itemid=6375

Not even a mention of VSTis.

Possibly because he isnt discussing VSTi usage in that tutorial.

It almost seems like you don`t want reaper to be able to do what you want it to.

The only real difference between reaper and most other commercial DAW software is that it doesn`t come equipped with a selection of virtual instruments.
Coming from Sonar I found that a real pleasant change. Far less crap I would never use cluttering my hard drive.
Using a VSTi is as simple as right clicking in the arrange area and selecting "add virtual instrument on new track". Not exac ONE CLICK.

Just so you understand where I am coming from, I ALWAYS use a virtual B3 organ, a virtual drummer, a virtual piano and any brass & string parts I write are sequenced using virtual instruments.
I generally use a standard template to set up the instruments and routing but it only takes me a minute or less to do it from scratch.

Agreed you might be better off with a different soft if you just cant get comfortable with reaper, but I found that after a while, everything I wanted to do, I could do in Reaper.
But it was often a case of figuring out what the devs had decided to call that function. I was too used to Sonar and ITS nomenclature.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:54 AM   #17
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Possibly because he isnt discussing VSTi usage in that tutorial.
He is discussing signal path and includes all sorts audio sources... except virtual instruments. Which is consistent with Reaper design, they aren't treated as sound sources, but track FX.


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Agreed you might be better off with a different soft if you just cant get comfortable with reaper, but I found that after a while, everything I wanted to do, I could do in Reaper.
But it was often a case of figuring out what the devs had decided to call that function. I was too used to Sonar and ITS nomenclature.
I've tried this approach and found that many issues I've experienced are only down to uncommon ways things are implemented in Reaper, or that the default commands are just routed assbackwards, but can be fixed by spending weeks diving in the thousands of actions and preferences. Enabling basic functionality, while possible, often takes effort to first find it, and then find an available key shortcut. Or installing an add-on.

There's no clear logic in why some settings are available in preferences, and some only accessible via unassigned actions, or some other menu.

However, there's a few things I haven't been able to work around yet, and some of them are critical:

1. Transport and other controls are disabled while a plugin window has focus. I can't for example start recording or mute/solo tracks before clicking in the main window.

2. VST parameter list is only displayed in single column. Most synths have way more parameters than fit 1200px height, and the only way to scroll this massive pillar of parameters is to click on the arrow buttons on the bottom/top of the list.

3. Closing plugin window also closes the Envelopes window.

4. You can't select multiple envelope lanes (from tcp) or delete them like tracks.

5. Recording automation on an envolope lane via MIDI is not only a massive clickfest, but also creates a CC lane on the host clip. I can't figure out how to hide the CC lanes form the media item, as I'd only like to see the note velocities there. I also don't know if it's possible to turn a CC lane into an envelope lane.

6. Opening a plugin window floated with one key is possible with SWS extension (this is standard feature in every DAW), but closing it with the same button is not possible since the floating window steals focus (see 1.)

These are just what I remember now, add on top of these the frequent crashes or audio freakouts, and the daunting task of building a new theme from scratch, I'm on the verge of giving up on Reaper.

Which would be a shame, since it offers tons of excellent features, amazing configurability and really clever functions not available elsewhere. It's also incredibly CPU-efficient (no idea how, with the same plugins), on the few projects I've managed to build I'm only touching 15% of my CPU. I've also invested a lot of time already into configuring and learning it, and I hate hopping hosts.

If you have pointers on how to solve the above, I'm all ears.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:02 AM   #18
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Try "insert instrument"
and keep one vsti/instrument per track, ymmv.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:42 AM   #19
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Try "insert instrument"
and keep one vsti/instrument per track, ymmv.
You do know that that function is just a macro that creates a new track with midi input, arms it, sets monitoring on and lets you choose a plugin to insert on the track as FX? There's no magic in it.

You can also chain as many VSTis on a track as you want, ymmv.
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:50 AM   #20
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1. Transport and other controls are disabled while a plugin window has focus. I can't for example start recording or mute/solo tracks before clicking in the main window.
etc etc etc
These are just what I remember now, add on top of these the frequent crashes or audio freakouts, and the daunting task of building a new theme from scratch, I'm on the verge of giving up on Reaper.


O.K. Seems to me like you have spent so much time fiddling around under the hood before you really"got" Reaper you have made some bad decisions on your customising.

Just to be sure I was not imagining things, I quickly loaded a project into reaper 5.1 which contained (among other plugs) the scuffham S-Gear amp sim. I opened its plugin window and focussed reaper on it, then hit the spacebar on my computer keyboard.
It played. If I had record enabled on ANY track and hit "R" it recorded.
Didnt bother going any further than that, since you evidently have your reaper behaviour set differently to the factory settings in this respect.

I and hundreds of others don't get crashes, certainly not frequent ones, and neither do we get audio freakouts.

Without wishing to offend, it might be an idea to go back to a factory fresh install and work through a few of the tutorials till you are 100% confident you understand what you are doing when you make a custom[setting.
And at this stage in the learning curve, why on earth are you faffing around with custom themes? Walter is not rocket science but it might be better to actually master the DAW's primary purpose before tarting it up?

P.S. And stop trying to make it into cubase?
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:00 AM   #21
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I don't know if there's a setting for it, but aside from that, if keyboard shortcuts don't work when a plugin has focus it's either because the plug is consuming the keypress, or it's running in a separate process.

Keypress events get passed around, between windows and if a child window doesn't use it the parent should get it. Some less carefully written gui code can mess this up and not pass on unused events.

With reaper there are also situations where a plugin may be running in a separate process, and if such a window has focus, a keypress simply can't be passed along. As far as I know.

On a general note, Reaper often feels strange at first. I'd say it's definatly worth the investment in time, let alone money. But at the same time, it's not for everyone. It may simply be a square peg round hole situation.
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:48 AM   #22
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[QUOTE=ivansc;1606282]O.K. Seems to me like you have spent so much time fiddling around under the hood before you really"got" Reaper you have made some bad decisions on your customising.

Just to be sure I was not imagining things, I quickly loaded a project into reaper 5.1 which contained (among other plugs) the scuffham S-Gear amp sim. I opened its plugin window and focussed reaper on it, then hit the spacebar on my computer keyboard.
It played. If I had record enabled on ANY track and hit "R" it recorded.
Didnt bother going any further than that, since you evidently have your reaper behaviour set differently to the factory settings in this respect.[quote]

Hitting "R" does not start recording on factory settings, it toggles loop mode. Ctrl+R is the default keyboard shortcut, which opens Replace FX dialog if pressed when an open FX window has focus. Pressing R does nothing while plugin window has focus. Neither does any other key you assign to Transport: Record while a plugin window has focus.

Clean install, Reasynth used in the test. Behaviour was identical on my setup anyway, since I hadn't changed any relevant settings concerning this.

Quote:
I and hundreds of others don't get crashes, certainly not frequent ones, and neither do we get audio freakouts.

Without wishing to offend, it might be an idea to go back to a factory fresh install and work through a few of the tutorials till you are 100% confident you understand what you are doing when you make a custom[setting.
And at this stage in the learning curve, why on earth are you faffing around with custom themes? Walter is not rocket science but it might be better to actually master the DAW's primary purpose before tarting it up?

P.S. And stop trying to make it into cubase?
The stuff I've configured aren't any custom settings, they are simple preferences. You know, basic options exposed to the user to customize the experience.

The DAW's primary purpose would indeed be recording music, in which task it struggles when using VSTs- something every DAW on earth should have zero issues with. Did you know that not even spacebar works if you are actually moving a control on a plugin?

I'm "faffing" around with custom themes because the default theme is a badly designed mess of too much value distance where it isn't needed, and too little where it would be useful.

Why don't you spend some time with the application and try to actually understand how it works before trying to sound smart on an internet forum.
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:49 AM   #23
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I don't know if there's a setting for it, but aside from that, if keyboard shortcuts don't work when a plugin has focus it's either because the plug is consuming the keypress, or it's running in a separate process.

Keypress events get passed around, between windows and if a child window doesn't use it the parent should get it. Some less carefully written gui code can mess this up and not pass on unused events.

With reaper there are also situations where a plugin may be running in a separate process, and if such a window has focus, a keypress simply can't be passed along. As far as I know.

On a general note, Reaper often feels strange at first. I'd say it's definatly worth the investment in time, let alone money. But at the same time, it's not for everyone. It may simply be a square peg round hole situation.
I used Reasynth to test this anti-feature, it doesn't have a GUI.
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:59 AM   #24
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Why don't you spend some time with the application and try to actually understand how it works before trying to sound smart on an internet forum.
Yep, I was right - you`re one of THOSE.
Goodbye.
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Old 12-09-2015, 09:01 AM   #25
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Just reiterating the steps so you can see for yourself that this isn't some custom tweak -originating meatware issue:

- uninstall Reaper, delete the resource path (might want to export your current settings first) to start from tabula rasa

- install Reaper with default settings

- open it, enable your audio interface

- Insert virtual instrument on a new track, pick Reasynth

- click Ctrl-R (you can stop pretending to be a new user here for a while and change the shortcut for recording to some other key that is not bind to an action in the FX chain window context)

- profit?
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Old 12-09-2015, 09:08 AM   #26
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[QUOTE=ivansc;1606327]
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Yep, I was right - you`re one of THOSE.
Goodbye.
No you are actually one of THOSE. Here's something to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias
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Old 12-09-2015, 10:40 AM   #27
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..you can stop pretending to be a new user here for a while and change the shortcut for recording to some other key that is not bind to an action in the FX chain window context
You just happened to not mention you were refering to the FX chain window.
You knew exactly why keypresses weren't getting through all along and just wanted a reason to be pissy?
Is that it?
Troll.
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Old 12-09-2015, 10:58 AM   #28
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You just happened to not mention you were refering to the FX chain window.
You knew exactly why keypresses weren't getting through all along and just wanted a reason to be pissy?
Is that it?
Troll.
Lol?

"1. Transport and other controls are disabled while a plugin window has focus. I can't for example start recording or mute/solo tracks before clicking in the main window.
etc etc etc"

I have no idea why the most important keypress for a DAW isn't getting thru, neither via the FX window or a floating plugin window, makes no difference.

That default Ctrl+R thing was just an unfortunate co-incidence, it doesn't matter what the shortcut is, it doesn't get thru.

Anyway, just one annoyance, pretty major one tho.
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:23 AM   #29
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If so then you have some kind of bug. Nothing much we can help you with.

But honestly, Reaper probably isn't for you anyway. If it annoys you, well there you are. Look elsewhere.
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:36 AM   #30
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That default Ctrl+R thing was just an unfortunate co-incidence, it doesn't matter what the shortcut is, it doesn't get thru.

Anyway, just one annoyance, pretty major one tho.
I have record mapped to F9 and stop/play mapped to F10 because, as you found out Ctrl-R doesn't get thru, because it's also mapped to Replace-FX in the FX Chain Window.

In the gif below, the FX windows have focus when record and stop are pressed, even with a bridged, embedded 32 bit FX plug in focus (on 64bit Reaper).




Reaper is pretty deep in terms of functionality when compared to most of its peers, but some of that functionality could do with a little polish imo, but there are usually ways to get it to work the way you want without too much effort.
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:45 AM   #31
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Hi,

I've returned to music after a long break and I'm currently going through the arduous task of choosing a DAW. Reaper has some very nice features, it's way more painful to get up and running than any software I've used before, but part of it's power probably lies in the myriad of setup options.

However, it feels like VST instruments were not part of the original design, and their implementation and inclusion in the workflow leaves a lot to be desired. How feasible it is to use software synths for original music creation in Reaper? ?
Eminently.

The only program I've used that has easier VST inclusion is Cantabile, where you can drag a VST's DLL right into a rack. In Cantabile I can try out VSTs right from my Downloads directory, without needing to put them in my (way way too too big big) VST directory and re-scanning.

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I've spent a couple of days now configuring the MIDI editor, and I believe it can be tweaked to be useable. Is it possible to tweak Reaper so it considers VSTis as instruments (sound source), and not effects? Is there an undo feature?

Do you use mainly software instruments with Reaper? How long did it take for you to set this program up?
Almost all VSTs. And it depends on what you mean by "set up." From installation to setting a VST directory to first sounds was perhaps a half-hour, because it was my first DAW and I needed to understand some DAW things. Also the VST directory scan was interrupted many times because I had hundreds of DLLs and many of them crash, but restarting Reaper picks up after the crasher, real easy.

IIRC, since everything is now done in ProcessReplacing(), every VST is an effect, and the only thing that makes something an "instrument" is a field somewhere that must be set by the programmer. So like many of those programmers, I ignore it ;-) Reaper lets you pick favorites and make your own plugin folders (in this case meaning a place in the Reaper plugin picker, not a filesystem folder).

Before Reaper, I was recording VSTs in Hermann Seib's Simple VST Host and mixing them in Audacity, so I was quite familiar with VSTs and even multiple ASIO drivers.

In my years of Reaper, I have spent exactly zero minutes configuring the MIDI editor. Maybe try this strategy: learn the defaults, and only after you know Reaper in its natural state, then you can beat it into shape. Your customization may be obscuring features and cause Reaper to not act like anybody else's Reaper, and may make following the manual (and forum helpers) impossible.

Oh, and: if you do what the manual says, you *will* learn Reaper.

I didn't even try ASIO for that first sound - went with DirectSound. As "standard" and low-techie as I could go. Make noise first, then go to ASIO and lower latency.

BTW, I am learning to appreciate Piano Roll, but still prefer using an external notation editor for composing. We have reason to believe a notation editor will be in Reaper before long.

Another thing I enjoy doing is having one MIDI chord track, and a bunch of other tracks that isolate and modify the MIDI chords - for example, one that grabs the root and fifth of the chord and sends them to an arpeggiator and octave transposer for bass parts. Two slightly different arpeggiations on the same VST patch is like Instant Alan Parsons.

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Have you used Reaper for scoring video or sound design?
I write music and sometimes put video to the music, not the other way around, so nope on that.

And as an Unfrozen Caveman Game Programmer, I wouldn't have exactly killed to have Reaper for sound design, but assault and battery hell yes. But Reaper wouldn't have been Reaper back then, because floating-point was a luxury option!

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Everything but "Interior Dasein," "Shimmer," and "Gnamma" were done in Reaper. "Interior Dasein" is VSTs recorded in Simple VST Host and mixed in Audacity. "Shimmer" and "Gnamma" were done 100% in the notation program "Harmony Assistant" by Myriad-Online.
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Old 12-09-2015, 12:44 PM   #32
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I have record mapped to F9 and stop/play mapped to F10 because, as you found out Ctrl-R doesn't get thru, because it's also mapped to Replace-FX in the FX Chain Window.
Thank you. It's not just ctrl+R (who would use that combo for recording anyway), I had it bind to R (and loop mapped to L)and later 0 for that nice wide button, and neither worked. Apparently function keys pass thru plugin windows.

Quote:
Reaper is pretty deep in terms of functionality when compared to most of its peers, but some of that functionality could do with a little polish imo, but there are usually ways to get it to work the way you want without too much effort.
Well record not working in a very typical use scenario out of the box isn't exactly what I'd call "lack of polish", it's just that Reaper was never designed to work this way, and developers themselves don't use it this way, nor test it. Hence this thread.
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Old 12-09-2015, 01:44 PM   #33
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In my years of Reaper, I have spent exactly zero minutes configuring the MIDI editor. Maybe try this strategy: learn the defaults, and only after you know Reaper in its natural state, then you can beat it into shape. Your customization may be obscuring features and cause Reaper to not act like anybody else's Reaper, and may make following the manual (and forum helpers) impossible.

Oh, and: if you do what the manual says, you *will* learn Reaper.
I'd recommend going through the available options for the MIDI editor, it's quite a nice piece of software once you sort out the mess that it is as default. I'd rather spend the time to set it up to work efficiently than struggle with it for years

Don't worry about "customizations obscuring features", features don't disappear anywhere. I haven't ran into any unexpected behaviour from preference settings, and I can always change a setting back if I don't like it. 90% of the customisation is reworking the key shortcuts and assigning new ones to actions. These don't break software, they were put in there to be used.

There's no manual, there's a User Guide book not written by the developers, and it doesn't even try to cover the application functionality (actions) in a structured, referable way. I've read it except for the parts that blabber irrelevant stuff about audio recording and general DAW basics for beginners, which are unfortunately a big part of the book when you'd only need a proper function reference.
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Old 12-09-2015, 02:14 PM   #34
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Thank you. It's not just ctrl+R (who would use that combo for recording anyway), I had it bind to R (and loop mapped to L)and later 0 for that nice wide button, and neither worked. Apparently function keys pass thru plugin windows.
I set it to CTRL+; (semicolon) and it worked. I tried CTRL+ a few other letters but there were other functions assigned to them, so semicolon seemed like an easy test.

I went back and tried to assign the record function to a few letters (without CTRL+), and that didn't work.

This isn't just for the FX chain window by the way, it's also if the VSTi plugin itself is floating/in focus. It seems Reaper has letters reserved (unable to be bound to actions which will "pass through" the plugin or FX chain window), in this case. I don't know why, though.

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Old 12-10-2015, 03:06 AM   #35
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I set it to CTRL+; (semicolon) and it worked. I tried CTRL+ a few other letters but there were other functions assigned to them, so semicolon seemed like an easy test.

I went back and tried to assign the record function to a few letters (without CTRL+), and that didn't work.

This isn't just for the FX chain window by the way, it's also if the VSTi plugin itself is floating/in focus. It seems Reaper has letters reserved (unable to be bound to actions which will "pass through" the plugin or FX chain window), in this case. I don't know why, though.
robu_23's tip about function keys is a perfectly acceptable workaround for me personally, I now have fully functional core controls with instruments open- issues #1 and #6 off the list.

I do find it mind-boggling that something as fundamental as this does not work out of the box, and the dysfunctional behaviour is not explained anywhere (probably related to Reaper using OS UI for the windows), and that an expansion package is required for opening plugins normally, but moving on:

Quote:
2. VST parameter list is only displayed in single column. Most synths have way more parameters than fit 1200px height, and the only way to scroll this massive pillar of parameters is to click on the arrow buttons on the bottom/top of the list.

3. Closing plugin window also closes the Envelopes window.

4. You can't select multiple envelope lanes (from tcp) or delete them like tracks.

5. Recording automation on an envolope lane via MIDI is not only a massive clickfest, but also creates a CC lane on the host clip. I can't figure out how to hide the CC lanes form the media item, as I'd only like to see the note velocities there. I also don't know if it's possible to turn a CC lane into an envelope lane.
Solutions/workarounds/comments on these would be welcome.
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Old 12-10-2015, 07:58 AM   #36
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I set it to CTRL+; (semicolon) and it worked. I tried CTRL+ a few other letters but there were other functions assigned to them, so semicolon seemed like an easy test.

I went back and tried to assign the record function to a few letters (without CTRL+), and that didn't work.

This isn't just for the FX chain window by the way, it's also if the VSTi plugin itself is floating/in focus. It seems Reaper has letters reserved (unable to be bound to actions which will "pass through" the plugin or FX chain window), in this case. I don't know why, though.
All keyboard shortcuts work for me including ctrl-R when a plugin window has focus. With the FX-chain window open, everything works except what is bound to the window. Space still toggles play for example.

Are you sure it's not the plug in? If you load up reasynth, drag a slider so you know it has focus and then hit, say Ctrl-T for new track, you don't get a new track?
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Old 12-10-2015, 11:08 AM   #37
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robu_23's tip about function keys is a perfectly acceptable workaround for me personally,
Me too. I just felt I should post my findings (that a single letter-based character as a shortcut for transport record won't "pass through" the VSTi whether it's the FX chain or plugin itself that's floating/in focus). I'm now using F12 as the shortcut for transport record.

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All keyboard shortcuts work for me including ctrl-R when a plugin window has focus. With the FX-chain window open, everything works except what is bound to the window. Space still toggles play for example.

Are you sure it's not the plug in? If you load up reasynth, drag a slider so you know it has focus and then hit, say Ctrl-T for new track, you don't get a new track?
Tried it with Reasynth and a few other VSTi.

Keep in mind what I'm talking about isn't a shortcut such as CTRL+R. It's just simply R (no CTRL+). I can bind just about anything I want if CTRL+ is part of the shortcut.

It's no big deal for me anyway. I almost never record with a VSTi open/in focus, and assigning that shortcut to F12 is handy.
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:59 PM   #38
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Keep in mind what I'm talking about isn't a shortcut such as CTRL+R. It's just simply R (no CTRL+). I can bind just about anything I want if CTRL+ is part of the shortcut.
Ahh OK. Others in the thread had trouble with ctrl-combos. I think plain letter keys are being sucked up by the presets listbox. IE, press R and it jumps to a preset beginning with R.
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:32 PM   #39
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Ahh OK. Others in the thread had trouble with ctrl-combos. I think plain letter keys are being sucked up by the presets listbox. IE, press R and it jumps to a preset beginning with R.
Aha! Good catch! I couldn't see anything happening but I wasn't looking at the presets listbox.
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Old 12-10-2015, 04:29 PM   #40
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if you want your keystrokes passed trough, use crtl or alt combinations, and everything it's passed. Trough scripts, fx windows (minus the crtl combinations used there),plugins, midi quantize windows, humanize; all the reaper and sws windows, etc. The only case when don't work it's with bridged plugins, because it's imposible to do something in that case, because it's a alienated process, like other program. The only solution in that case it's auto hotkey, another soft (i think with patience, you can invert the vanilla keys, with the ctrl ones in auto hotkey, but never try it).I have the clasic spacebar for play, and the same action mapped to crtl spacebar for when windows steal focus. And every action i need to use when windows are open, i mapped to crtl or alt something. I leave the vanilla keys for editing things, and shit i do from the arrange window without other stuff open, like split, cut, delete, zooms, undos, grouping functions, etc. For example, i remove the classic ctrl+s for save, and use ctrl+s for solo, knowing that i can press that with all the shit open and the track behind the windows it's going to be soloed. You get the idea.
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