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01-15-2015, 09:56 PM
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#41
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FnA
That's exciting boss. Throw us a bone.
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Next build
Most of this will likely get in to 4.x too. Here's another step:
It will only ever add (switching from one measure of 5/4 to 3/4 will add a second measure, but it's easy to remove the extra measure once you decide you're good to lose the content there).
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01-15-2015, 11:24 PM
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#42
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,173
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Hmm. What will happen to continuous item (and notes?) I guess we'll see. Well, my view is I'd like to be able to subordinate the grid to the music. I don't really want content moving when adjusting the barlines. Seems like it's working like that now(edit-in pre 5c). I can venture that some might wish to use time sigs to create rhythmic effects, but other than possibly maxdis' post a few back, I haven't really seen anyone asking for that. It's why I posted a FR thread asking for additional "quarter note timebase." No one responded.
It seems like actions or scripts could provide spaces or removals if timemap adjusted well. Something like a multiple skipping insert time or remove contents to next time signature. Not sure.
Last edited by FnA; 01-16-2015 at 01:56 AM.
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01-16-2015, 12:45 AM
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#43
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Next build
Most of this will likely get in to 4.x too. Here's another step:
<snip>
It will only ever add (switching from one measure of 5/4 to 3/4 will add a second measure, but it's easy to remove the extra measure once you decide you're good to lose the content there).
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Yeah I'm not sure if this is the right way to go, adding empty sections breaking the continuity of items...
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01-16-2015, 04:32 AM
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#44
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
It will only ever add (switching from one measure of 5/4 to 3/4 will add a second measure, but it's easy to remove the extra measure once you decide you're good to lose the content there).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Yeah I'm not sure if this is the right way to go, adding empty sections breaking the continuity of items...
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Am a little unsure here myself.
One option is making partial measure after, preserving item-distance (as is now I believe)
__________________
Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
Bandcamp
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01-16-2015, 05:10 AM
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#45
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,173
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I think-
:07 It should make a 3/4 and a 1/4 without moving or splitting anything.
:13 Similar
:21 Similar
:27 Not sure. Maybe user shouldn't try to force bigger measure without expecting something like that. (edit might be similar to first 3 if there were more measures before next time change.)
:38 Good.
:44 Good.
Last edited by FnA; 01-16-2015 at 05:28 AM.
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01-16-2015, 06:10 AM
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#46
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,173
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Here's another one for pre 5c.
Maybe the time sig behavior will change next pre?
Notice the note won't go to the end of the item.
edit- how do you turn on the time feature in licecap?
Last edited by FnA; 05-08-2015 at 08:39 PM.
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01-16-2015, 08:59 AM
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#47
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Did you ever split the item? That could create the offset. In any case, I'll look at if we can make it autodetect when it has an offset that would be better treated as 0 (very close to the source length)...
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Maybe I splitted it, I can't remember now...but I'm thinking that in a project with many items it would be a nightmare to keep tracks of which of them have an offset; maybe we could have an option in global preferences to reset the offset to 0 every time we do a split?
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01-16-2015, 09:01 AM
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#48
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
It will only ever add (switching from one measure of 5/4 to 3/4 will add a second measure, but it's easy to remove the extra measure once you decide you're good to lose the content there).
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The change from 4/4 to 9/8 in your example is exactly as it should works, the other ones looks a bit messy, why can't we have the same behaviour for every time sig changes?
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01-16-2015, 09:19 AM
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#49
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FnA
I don't really want content moving when adjusting the barlines. Seems like it's working like that now(edit-in pre 5c). I can venture that some might wish to use time sigs to create rhythmic effects, but other than possibly maxdis' post a few back, I haven't really seen anyone asking for that.
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I don't know if we are talking about the same thing, but I feel that adding and removing spaces is exactly as it should work; if I change a measure from 4/4 to 6/4 in a given musical piece, I'm expecting that all the content after that will shift later by 2/4. This is not a rhythmic effect, but a basic music rhythm behaviour. If you take a notation editor software, and change a measure tim sig from 4/4 to 6/4, the software will add a 2/4 rest before the end of that measure.
Of course the new space should add perfectly to the misure new lenght: in Justin example, it seems to work perfectly on the 4/4 to 9/8 change, because a 1/8 space is added, but in the other ones the space added is way too much...
Anyway, if people prefer to have no space added/removed on time changes, at least let's make it optional for those of us who prefer to have it working in the way notation software does.
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01-16-2015, 10:31 AM
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#50
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdis
Of course the new space should add perfectly to the misure new lenght: in Justin example, it seems to work perfectly on the 4/4 to 9/8 change, because a 1/8 space is added, but in the other ones the space added is way too much...
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If you switch a measure from 4/4 to 7/8, it will need to either remove 1/8th, or add 6/8th. It chooses to do the latter (to avoid removing that missing bar) -- if you didn't want the extra measure, you can easily remove it. If we made it remove when necessary (which I'm not inclined to do), it would have removed an 8th and if you wanted the extra measure (or data from the 1/8th that was removed), restoring it would be more difficult.
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01-16-2015, 11:33 AM
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#51
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdis
I don't know if we are talking about the same thing
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My bad. I thought you and maybe Justin were leaning toward the old official release Beats behavior. I'm OK with having to prepare the joints a bit.
Justin's gif is just what happens in Sibelius 6, up to the remove contents anyway. Doh.
Last edited by FnA; 01-16-2015 at 02:16 PM.
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01-16-2015, 06:24 PM
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#52
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 61
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This is looking very good to me. The gaps between items don't bother me at all, indeed, this is how I expect it would work. And preserving the existing data is exactly the way to go. If I change from 4/4 to 7/8, I don't want an eighth beat shaved off my notes! Thanks!
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01-17-2015, 12:16 AM
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#53
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
If you switch a measure from 4/4 to 7/8, it will need to either remove 1/8th, or add 6/8th. It chooses to do the latter (to avoid removing that missing bar) -- if you didn't want the extra measure, you can easily remove it. If we made it remove when necessary (which I'm not inclined to do), it would have removed an 8th and if you wanted the extra measure (or data from the 1/8th that was removed), restoring it would be more difficult.
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Personally it wouldn't be a problem for me to have items truncated (as long as is not destructive), but I understand why many people aren't confortable with that.
My dream:
It would be great if we could have a new type of regions, let's call them "tempo regions": each region would be strictly connected to time signature, and when we extend the right border of the region, the time signature increases (4/4, 5/4, 6/4, if the grid snap is set to 1/4) adding the right space at the end of the measure; when dragging the right region border to the left, the time sig would decrease, truncating the items at the end...but if we change our mind, we have to just extend the region again, and the items content is restored!
This way it would be also more faster to change time signature, no need to click on a marker and type the text, we should just extend or reduce a region.
Last edited by maxdis; 01-17-2015 at 12:24 AM.
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01-17-2015, 12:23 AM
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#54
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FnA
My bad. I thought you and maybe Justin were leaning toward the old official release Beats behavior. I'm OK with having to prepare the joints a bit.
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no problem :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FnA
Justin's gif is just what happens in Sibelius 6, up to the remove contents anyway. Doh.
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I haven't tried Sibelius, but on Musescore it works as I wrote above
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01-21-2015, 08:33 PM
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#55
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,173
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Bug? Nitpick?
Seems like track 3 behavior not consistent with "envelope points move with items."
What if there's no item? (edit-currently -pre7 -points move)
Last edited by FnA; 01-21-2015 at 08:58 PM.
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06-11-2015, 01:53 PM
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#56
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wellington
Posts: 4,622
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Hi, not sure if this is the intended behaviour or a bug.
Cheers
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06-12-2015, 11:13 PM
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#57
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrick
Hi, not sure if this is the intended behaviour or a bug.
Cheers
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I don't think this is the intended behaviour, because you're losing all of your tempo changes, using a perfectly basic feature (moving a region). If you bring the region back at its original place, are the tempo changes restored?
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06-23-2015, 12:17 PM
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#58
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdis
I don't think this is the intended behaviour, because you're losing all of your tempo changes, using a perfectly basic feature (moving a region). If you bring the region back at its original place, are the tempo changes restored?
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Hi,
Can't remember which preference it is, I think its the project time base w respect to markers.
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04-26-2017, 02:24 PM
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#59
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,714
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Last edited by juliansader; 04-26-2017 at 04:33 PM.
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04-26-2017, 05:09 PM
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#60
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: The Dutch Mountains
Posts: 389
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Two years??? This needs (needed) fixing ASAP! This is a core function of any (serious) DAW.
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04-26-2017, 11:52 PM
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#61
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 794
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I wonder how regions would cope with AI... have to do some test myself..
g
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04-27-2017, 05:14 AM
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#62
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: They put me in a home.
Posts: 3,432
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Wishful thinking. I wouldn't hold your breath.
__________________
47.8% of statistics are made up.
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04-28-2017, 03:48 PM
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#63
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London (UK)
Posts: 412
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tempo events as "list"
Hi guys, I couldn't find this with the search feature so i'll try asking it here:
is there a way of seeing tempo events as a list?
thanks!
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04-29-2017, 06:42 AM
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#64
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tusitala
Hi guys, I couldn't find this with the search feature so i'll try asking it here:
is there a way of seeing tempo events as a list?
thanks!
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Hi,
I think the marker list SHOULD show them.
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04-29-2017, 11:22 AM
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#65
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LugNut
Hi,
I think the marker list SHOULD show them.
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I agree, and I think you should be able to hide them also. If you do any complex tempo mapping the tempo markers can really clutter up the arrange view. You really only need to see them when you are editing/ working on mapping tempos....
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04-29-2017, 12:17 PM
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#66
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: The Dutch Mountains
Posts: 389
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Tempo map in REAPER is broken, so why bother? (see above)
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04-29-2017, 12:19 PM
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#67
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tusitala
Hi guys, I couldn't find this with the search feature so i'll try asking it here:
is there a way of seeing tempo events as a list?
thanks!
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As far as I know, neither the native Region/Marker Manager, nor SWS's Marker List includes the tempo markers.
There is an old feature request that we would do well to revive.
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04-29-2017, 01:44 PM
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#68
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: They put me in a home.
Posts: 3,432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tusitala
Hi guys, I couldn't find this with the search feature so i'll try asking it here:
is there a way of seeing tempo events as a list?
thanks!
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Trust me, we all want it but it's yet to come. Tempo lists are found in more full-featured DAWs like Logic, etc.
One day though Reaper will get a Tempo List! Right after they clean up the VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: nonsense in the FX browser. Lol. Cockos.
__________________
47.8% of statistics are made up.
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04-29-2017, 01:52 PM
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#69
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Johnson III
Tempo map in REAPER is broken, so why bother? (see above)
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Tempo mapping works just fine with SWS actions. It is regions that break tempo maps. Don't mix up the two.
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04-29-2017, 02:13 PM
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#70
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: The Dutch Mountains
Posts: 389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Tempo mapping works just fine with SWS actions. It is regions that break tempo maps. Don't mix up the two.
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Not just regions trip up the tempo map…(see the list) Tempo mapping with SWS actions is extremely well implemented. That makes it a shame that more than a "static" tempo map (due to long standing bugs) is not possible in REAPER.
The time/beat config of tracks also gets mixed up after tempo mapping. That is not just fine IMHO.
Maybe hire an extra Dev. from SWS to figure this out?
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08-20-2017, 01:31 PM
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#71
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,714
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In order to properly move or copy regions -- specifically if the region begins or ends with linear tempo segments, or is moved/copied into a linear segment -- two points should be inserted at each edge point to preserve tempo envelope inside and outside region
REAPER can understand and use multiple tempo markers at the same time point, but the native actions for moving or copying Regions do not utilize this feature, resulting in changes in the tempo map inside and outside the Region:
As a demonstration that the tempo envelope can be properly preserved when moving or copying regions -- even when copying into a linear segment -- here is my own "Insert empty beats" script doing something similar:
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