Tips for balancing two different guitars?

[Mask]

I'm in the process of finishing up a few songs and need some tips/ideas.

Basically my friend and I recorded our respective guitar parts each with our own guitars. Obviously not the best idea for the tightest mix, but it worked pretty well. The problem I'm having is on the final mix, our guitars are having some issues balancing volume/eq-wise.

His guitar (a les paul with a jb/59 set) came out bassier and what sounds to be somewhat louder than mine. Mine on the other hand (superstrat with DiMarzio Titans) came out brighter, chirpier, and much tighter in the low end. I did my best to get our levels close to equal when hitting the interface (right about -18db), but it's still off just due to the differences in the guitars, pickups, and probably our playing styles as well.

Any good tips or ideas for how to even them out in a uniform way while still preserving the tone?

additional info: All DI guitars with the exact same plugins (including compression)/leveling on each track. 1 guitar panned hard left, 1 guitar panned hard right.

[Lokasenna]

- Do as little as possible. The differences between the two guitars are *huge* for making your mix sound nice and wide. If you listen closely to a lot of albums, the left and right guitars aren't at all the same.

- Try just some gentle high/low shelving. Avoid doing a bunch of narrow EQ moves to match them up.

- Is it double-tracked (one track of you on the left, one track of him on the right), or quad-tracked (two performances of yours, two performances of his)? If it's quad-tracked, you could just swap one of yours and his to balance out the stereo feel; in that case, I would pull the second pair down 3-6db so preserve clarity and width.

[Mask]

Originally Posted by Lokasenna

- Do as little as possible. The differences between the two guitars are *huge* for making your mix sound nice and wide. If you listen closely to a lot of albums, the left and right guitars aren't at all the same.

- Try just some gentle high/low shelving. Avoid doing a bunch of narrow EQ moves to match them up.

- Is it double-tracked (one track of you on the left, one track of him on the right), or quad-tracked (two performances of yours, two performances of his)? If it's quad-tracked, you could just swap one of yours and his to balance out the stereo feel; in that case, I would pull the second pair down 3-6db so preserve clarity and width.

That's ideally what I'd like to do is just some subtle adjustments. I like how each side has it's own unique feel, but due to the more bass and low mids coming from his side (left), it feels like that side is where it seems the weight of the mix is.

Yeah it's double tracked 1 instance of him panned hard left. 1 instance of me panned hard right.

[Lokasenna]

What genre is it? If it's rock/metal, you can probably lose a fair amount of low end from the guitars to make room for the kick and bass, which would help balance the guitars side to side.

Alternatively, try just narrowing the low end on your guitar bus. I think "Stereo Enhancer" is one of the stock JS plugins, and I know GVST has a similar tool. There are lots of them out there.

[Mask]

Yeah it's metal/hard rock. I do actually like what's going on bass wise with his side though and it's not overwhelming in the context of the track. I may try to bring it down a little, but I think I may want to do the tweaking to my side to even them out.

[Lokasenna]

Try narrowing the bass on the guitar bus even a little, like to 50%. Lopsided bass tends to stick out a lot more (IMO) than a slightly unbalanced midrange.

[Judders]

Another option might be for you to double-track your part and pan L/R, then keep his guitar up the middle (depending on whether this will step on the bass or vocals too much).

[RDBOIS]

I agree with Lokasenna, you don't need to match them up; their unique tone is a good thing.

Heck, I only have one guitar and I have to work extra hard when I have two different guitar tracks on a song, I wish I had two guitars with different set ups.

Panning and reverb were mentioned.

Two things I do to "balance": 1) carving (one gets a slight eq cut where the other gets a slight boost or cuts in different places with no boost, and 2) I close my eyes when mixing them.

I know that last part seems strange (closing your eyes), but I find this works better than looking at the volume/loudness meter. Loudness is a trick thing especially when you're dealing with different guitar tones.

Oh yeah, sometimes if the song is not two busy and I need to fill up the space, I'll pan the reverb of the guitar on the left to the right and the reverb of the right to the left. Funny thing that does, it blends them together without them losing their uniqueness, and fills the space really quickly.

But, what do I know... I do this for fun.

[Mr. PC]

I would put a high-pass over each guitar around 200k (wherever the lowest note you play is). Listen as you do to make sure you don't cut out tone, but cut as much as you can without losing tone.

Pan hard left and right.

Add a short reverb to the guitars with a bit of 'cross over' to add a bit of center.

If they sound muddy, which I don't think they will, you can try lowering a little in the 200-800 range.

Keep the bass center mono.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by Mr. PC

I would put a high-pass over each guitar around 200k (wherever the lowest note you play is). Listen as you do to make sure you don't cut out tone, but cut as much as you can without losing tone.

Pan hard left and right.

Add a short reverb to the guitars with a bit of 'cross over' to add a bit of center.

If they sound muddy, which I don't think they will, you can try lowering a little in the 200-800 range.

Keep the bass center mono.

You have to be careful with the resonant peak around the corner frequency with that. Often it might work better to HP lower but with an attenuating low shelf higher up. A buildup around 200Hz is vary rarely desirable in a mix.

If you're recording heavy guitar that is loud enough to have proper cabinet involvement, then you may well be missing out on audible information if you HP so high.

[Mr. PC]

Originally Posted by Judders

You have to be careful with the resonant peak around the corner frequency with that. Often it might work better to HP lower but with an attenuating low shelf higher up. A buildup around 200Hz is vary rarely desirable in a mix.

If you're recording heavy guitar that is loud enough to have proper cabinet involvement, then you may well be missing out on audible information if you HP so high.

Right. Recently I switched to Neutron's EQ, and what amazes me (more than their fancy stuff) is that the high pass sounds *really* good to me. I'm afraid it's my imagination, but I don't hear any resonance on their steep high-pass.

I didn't know that about cabinets however... I guess I've never had anything other than a cheapish amp :P

[Judders]

Originally Posted by Mr. PC

Right. Recently I switched to Neutron's EQ, and what amazes me (more than their fancy stuff) is that the high pass sounds *really* good to me. I'm afraid it's my imagination, but I don't hear any resonance on their steep high-pass.

I didn't know that about cabinets however... I guess I've never had anything other than a cheapish amp :P

The corner frequency "bump" depends on the filter type. Whether it's desirable or not depends on the material.

You can get some deep lows from a blaring 4x12 cab. I don't know the physics of it, but I presume cab resonance (the cab itself, rather than the speakers) has something to do with it (but that could be entirely wrong ).

[vdubreeze]

Is it bugging you throughout or just in a handful of measures? If it's the latter and it were me I would go in and do short volume automations to make those places not bother me. Naturally along with other stuff that helps in general, such as a high pass.

Originally Posted by Mask

I did my best to get our levels close to equal when hitting the interface (right about -18db), but it's still off just due to the differences in the guitars, pickups, and probably our playing styles as well.

Any good tips or ideas for how to even them out in a uniform way while still preserving the tone?

If it's in general (and you're going to tweak your track) and you want to preserve the tone I'd say don't worry about the levels being different in spite of hitting the interface at the same levels. It makes perfect sense being different guitars. What happens if you just move your track volume until it sounds right? And forget about the fact that if they look equal they don't sound equal.

[Mask]

I do believe I've corrected my issue. Whatever was making the other guitar uncomfortably weightier to my ears was happening right around 100hz. In the process of making room for the bass and kick, I ended up setting my hpf at about 115 hz (higher than I normally do) on the guitars and that really helped even them out better. I also gave my guitar the tiniest little nudge up on the bass dial on the amp sim. I'm much happier with the balance now.

I think the problem originally stemmed from pickup differences. His are lower output, and less compressed. I was hitting the interface at about the same level as mentioned, but I think the dynamic response differences between a JB and a Titan were the root cause of my dissatisfaction.

[jerome_oneil]

Originally Posted by Judders

A buildup around 200Hz is vary rarely desirable in a mix.

Dang near every guitar track I've ever done has a 3 to 6db notch right in that 200 to 250 range for exactly this reason. Clears up all kinds of stuff.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Judders

The corner frequency "bump" depends on the filter type. Whether it's desirable or not depends on the material.

I just modify the Q to remove the bump but you are correct that if you remove enough it starts turning into a shelf anyway. HPF if fine as long as you can see/adjust for the bump and IMHO we don't get too dogmatic about HPF as a rule. Actually, ReaEQ does this automatically.

You can get some deep lows from a blaring 4x12 cab. I don't know the physics of it, but I presume cab resonance (the cab itself, rather than the speakers) has something to do with it (but that could be entirely wrong ).

All the way down to space loading if on the floor and against the wall, that's what at least 6 dB right there? Either way, context, context, context, either the mix is lacking that low end or the guitar needs to get out of the way of it with the latter being the case about 94.21% of the time.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

All the way down to space loading if on the floor and against the wall, that's what at least 6 dB right there? Either way, context, context, context, either the mix is lacking that low end or the guitar needs to get out of the way of it with the latter being the case about 94.21% of the time.

Each person's percentage will depend on context too!

For some metal kiddies it might be the former 100% of the time (and bass guitar is that thing that does subs and clanking and nothing else)!

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Judders

Each person's percentage will depend on context too!

For some metal kiddies it might be the former 100% of the time (and bass guitar is that thing that does subs and clanking and nothing else)!

Or the bass or guitar actually being lower in frequency than the kick.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Or the bass or guitar actually being lower in frequency than the kick.

Sorry, do you mean the click?

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Judders

Sorry, do you mean the click?

Is there anything else there in that type of kick?