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Old 03-25-2017, 06:55 AM   #1
Dehenry
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Default Noob question: Send level of individual VSTi outputs

I have a drum VSTi with individual outputs. All sounds except for the snare are routed to the first two outputs. The snare is routed to outputs 3+4. "Master send" for the track is activated. I created a send for outputs 3+4 to another track with a reverb on it that I use as a send effect for other tracks as well. The problem is that now always 100% of the snare signal are sent to the reverb so that I don't have a dry snare signal anymore. This can be resolved by not sending the drum outputs 3+4 to the reverb track directly, but to another track as an aux track and add a send to the reverb track there (by the way - this is really tricky. If the aux track is a child track of the drum track, it doesn't work...). Is there a simpler way to do this?

Apparently "master send" only applies to outputs 1+2 of a VSTi (which in a way makes sense of course), right?
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:59 AM   #2
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If you want to be able to control the volume and pan of the snare you can use one of the JS Channel Mixers on the track with the VSTi. Otherwise you could put any plugin you want after the VSTi and have it take input from 1/2 and 3/4. You may already have an EQ or compressor of something there? Use that. Otherwise I usually reach for ReaEQ for this anyway cause its completely transparent when it's left flat, but then it's also just already there if I decide I need/want it. But you can't let this plugin output to 3/4. Make sure it goes to 1/2 and leave the boxes for output 3/4 empty.
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:28 PM   #3
Dehenry
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Thank you, that's really an interesting alternative! I think I am half way there, but maybe you can confirm that my thinking is right:

So I insert the drum VSTi as FX and configure it to send the BD to output 1+2 and the snare to 3+4. Next I add a reverb and configure it to receive on 3+4. If I set the output of the reverb to 1+2, I can only hear the snare (with reverb) but not the BD. So apparently Reaper does not pass through the BD on outputs 1+2 of the drum VSTi and mix them with outputs 1+2 of the reverb. Rather, if the reverb is configured to send to output 1+2, it takes over these outputs exclusively and blocks the incoming signal on these channels, right?

If I set the reverb output to 3+4, I can hear the dry BD, which is consistent with what I wrote before because now that channels 1+2 are not used by the reverb's output, it lets the BD on these channels pass through. The snare cannot be heard because outputs 3+4 are not connected to the output of the track. So this means I always have to add a mixer as FX at the end of the FX chain to mix the dry BD on channels 1+2 and the snare with reverb on channels 3+4, and send both to the track outputs?

There is still one thing I am not fully sure I understand: It seems like the "stealing" or exclusive use of a channel only happens when the *output* of an FX uses that channel, but not when the *input* of an FX is connected to that channel. So in my above example: If I send 1+2 and 3+4 of the drum VSTi to the inputs of the reverb, and send the output of the reverb to channels 3+4, then the BD and the snare will get reverb, but in addition the dry BD is passed through on channels 1+2 because the output of the reverb does not use these channels. As a result, the JS mixer receives a 50/50 mix of the BD and a 100% wet snare, correct?

Sorry for this contorted post - I hope I can make myself understood...
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Old 03-31-2017, 09:47 AM   #4
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I think you've prett much got it. The output of the plugin replaces whatever is on whatever channel you send it to. And yes, that's only for outputs. You can "split" channels to the input of different plugins.

Remember that you can also mix channels at the input pins. Like send channel 1 and 3 to the plug's L input, and channel 2 and 4 to the R.
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Old 04-01-2017, 06:22 AM   #5
Dehenry
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A routing matrix of its own within each track - quite sophisticated! Thanks for your helpful explanations!
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:30 AM   #6
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This might shed some light too:


It's a 4-channel track and the letters A ... I indicate different audio content. As an example 'B' is combined (depending on the FX's Dry/Wet control) with 'E' to create 'G'.
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:26 AM   #7
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Many thanks DS! Now there is one thing that confuses me. You say that B and E are combined. Is that because the red circles represent JS mixers? I'm asking because based on my observations I would otherwise expect that B is fully replaced by E (and not mixed with E) because the output of the compressor is connected to channels 3+4 without B having been fed into the compressor. That's the stealing I referred to in my previous post.
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Old 04-03-2017, 10:12 AM   #8
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The red circles are the Dry/Wet controls on the header panel for each FX:



Your conclusion is correct:
  • at the 100% Wet setting (the default): G = 100% E + 0% B
  • at 70% Wet setting: . . . . . . . . . . . .. G = 70% E + 30% B
  • at 0% Wet setting: . . . . . . . . . . . . . G = 0% E + 100% B

So the output from the FX is mixed into any audio on the channels to which it is connected. By default the FX output replaces any existing audio, as you have seen.
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Old 04-03-2017, 12:44 PM   #9
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@Darkstar - Just wanted to let you know that you are very good at explaining things. Keep up the great work!
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Old 04-03-2017, 02:46 PM   #10
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Thanks very much again (in particular for taking the time to prepare a schematic and screenshot - very nice of you) and I can only echo what Jeffsound said!

Sorry if I am a bit slow, but I would have thought that in your example the dry/wet control of the compressor determines the mix of D (= the "dry" signal that is fed into the compressor) and E, but not the mix of E and B. I guess I need to play around more with the routing and controls to really get my head around this, and your great explanations will certainly help me with that!
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Old 04-04-2017, 03:23 AM   #11
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In simple cases (e.g. the EQ) you are right.

It's an artificial example (for illustration only). Each FX has a Wet/Dry control added by Reaper. So the two that I have shown for the Comp are the same control. As a result:
  • at the 100% Wet setting (the default):
    . . . . . . . . . . . .. G = 100% E + 0% B
    . . . . . . . . . . and F = 100% E + 0% D
  • at 70% Wet setting:
    . . . . . . . . . . . .. G = 70% E + 30% B
    . . . . . . . . . . and F = 70% E + 30% D
  • at 0% Wet setting:
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . G = 0% E + 100% B
    . . . . . . . . . .. and F = 0% E + 100% D

Disclaimer: I could, of course, be mistaken
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Old 04-04-2017, 04:23 AM   #12
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Try this (tracks):

- Drum bus (with optional fx)
-- Drum vst
-- Audio out 1+2
-- Audio out 3+4
-- Midi track1
-- Midi track2
-- Drums fx1
-- Drums fx2

or similar
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