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Old 06-18-2014, 12:02 PM   #1
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Default v4.7pre6 - June 18 2014

v4.7pre6 - June 18 2014
+ Media explorer: improved interaction with audio device closing
+ WASAPI: compatibility and performance improvements
+ Media item properties: HMSF time mode for item position/length
+ Localization: fixed marker/region import [t=141703]
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:10 PM   #2
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v4.7pre6 - June 18 2014
+ WASAPI: compatibility and performance improvements
/me goes off to test
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:20 PM   #3
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/me goes off to test
Looking forward to your WASAPI feedback (this version should be a lot better, at least in theory!)
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:27 PM   #4
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Looking forward to your WASAPI feedback (this version should be a lot better, at least in theory!)
Thanks Justin! When I'm back I'll try this too. Very useful for portable laptops/tablets.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:08 PM   #5
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Looking forward to your WASAPI feedback (this version should be a lot better, at least in theory!)
Initial impression is that I think it's better but it's hard to say for certain just yet. I'll post my results FWIW. If you can suggest any ways to test methodically it would be a big help!

Win7 32bit. No other programs open. Stuff running in the background (firewall, dropbox, skype) but nothing heavy. REAPER playing a single stereo WAV 24/44.1, no plugins anywhere.

Windows sound settings: 24bit, 44.1K, allow exclusive = true, exclusive priority = true

REAPER settings: 128samples, shared mode, sample/bit rate controls grayed but showing 16/44.1

Initially playback seemed glitchy but it settled down quickly so perhaps that was down to system activity. Leaving REAPER mostly untouched it played fine for just under 3mins, which is better than before but usually I'd be clicking around and fiddling with stuff so perhaps it's not a fair comparison. The driver button in the top-right showed 132 samples which seems strange. Why not 128 as specified?

* 128 samples, exclusive mode, bit/sample set to 16/44.1
Untouched it played through until the end (~3:40) without glitches but on second play I could trigger glitches by just scrolling around etc. The driver button said 160 samples.

When I clicked the driver button to try something else I got a hang (still hanging as I type) so I'll kill the process and try again. 128 samples might be too low for the hardware to cope with (it's not a very powerful laptop) so I'll try 256 next and see what happens...
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:22 PM   #6
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It will increase the blocksize according to WASAPI's whim... so you might specify 128 but it won't necessarily really work at that size.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by SMM View Post
+ Media item properties: HMSF time mode for item position/length
This is neat. Thank you.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:52 PM   #8
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It will increase the blocksize according to WASAPI's whim... so you might specify 128 but it won't necessarily really work at that size.
Yeah, that makes sense. I guess the hardware can't quite cope with 128.

The hang is related to using exclusive mode. I'd start REAPER and click the driver button and it would just hang so I had to do the "show audio properties on startup" thing from the programs menu (not been in there for a while!) Set it to shared and all was well but after I'd set it to exclusive and went to open the audio properties again it hung and I had to kill it. Seems like exclusive mode is preventing the audio properties dialog from showing properly.

Anyway, using the same settings as before, shared mode, 256 samples, playback was pretty smooth, just a couple of pops over 4 minutes or so with me doing lots of gratuitous zoomy/scrolly stuff.

Setting it to exclusive mode seemed slightly worse, with three or four pops over a similar time. Then it hung again when I clicked the audio settings button .

In both cases the audio button reported 256 samples.

I suspect that it is a lot better than before but I've not tried doing any real work yet. I'll keep on fiddling, try 512 etc. Tomorrow I'll fire up the laptop in lean mode with all the non-essential stuff turned off to minimise potential interference from other processes.

btw. the pops are subtle little things, like when you don't cut on a zero crossing and you get a slight discontinuity in the waveform.
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:05 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by SMM View Post
v4.7pre6 - June 18 2014
+ Media explorer: improved interaction with audio device closing
+ WASAPI: compatibility and performance improvements
Nice! I love WASAPI!

Also, I know its a long shot, but if there's a possibility of adding the tiny option or a toggle action to prevent the Media Explorer pitch shift amount from resetting when browsing each sample, it would be a game-changer for me.

I explained in detail why it is so useful in the SWS feature tracker, but unfortunately the Media Explorer is itself an extension of Reaper so SWS can't add any functionality to it...

https://code.google.com/p/sws-extens.../detail?id=640
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:12 PM   #10
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512 samples shared mode played for around 7 minutes with just one pop (around 2:30) but I gots to stop now. I'll pick it up again tomorrow. Thanks for looking into this. Direct Sound sucks .
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:36 PM   #11
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Also, I know its a long shot, but if there's a possibility of adding the tiny option or a toggle action to prevent the Media Explorer pitch shift amount from resetting when browsing each sample, it would be a game-changer for me.
Definitely +1 .... also, the possibility to lock the pitch shift to semitones only.

I use the ME extensively (one of my favourite parts of REAPER) and these two small niggles do get very frustrating.
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:24 PM   #12
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Definitely +1 .... also, the possibility to lock the pitch shift to semitones only.
big +1 on this. would be happy for a mouse+mod key to do this. alt or something. it'd also be swell if this could go for rs5k too please. both situations are inconvenient because i have to type in values instead of mousing them if i want any degree of accuracy
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:27 PM   #13
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hmsf will be useful thanks
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
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+ Media item properties: HMSF time mode for item position/length
Any chance of getting some love for this tiny request, please?
I promise it's tiny.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1368709
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:01 PM   #15
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hmsf will be useful thanks
Indeed thanks!

Any chance of getting back media explorer playback/preview of video that contains no audio track? Right now, videos have to have audio to playback in media explorer.
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Old 06-19-2014, 01:33 AM   #16
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Definitely +1 .... also, the possibility to lock the pitch shift to semitones only.

I use the ME extensively (one of my favourite parts of REAPER) and these two small niggles do get very frustrating.
Yes, I use it more than anything else.

When it comes to electronic music production, Reaper lacks compared to many DAWs, but the media explorer is light years ahead of every other DAW, especially because of the start on bar (which was my suggestion) and the autolooping of selections (which could definitely be improved but is mostly great).

Feel free to check out and add any suggestions/reqests to the giant list in my signature if you think of anything. I'll probably give it a revamp once its clear R5 is near.

Its a giant list, but being able to lock the pitch shift is at the top of mine (snapping to semitones would make the knob much better too, I always need to enter values manually in the field).

I really think if a lot of sample based hiphop guys knew what's possible with it, they'd be instant converts...
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:08 AM   #17
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Am i alone here? When hand zoom in ME, the view jumps out to nowhere...very annoying.

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Old 06-19-2014, 03:27 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by PitchSlap View Post
Yes, I use it more than anything else.

When it comes to electronic music production, Reaper lacks compared to many DAWs, but the media explorer is light years ahead of every other DAW, especially because of the start on bar (which was my suggestion) and the autolooping of selections (which could definitely be improved but is mostly great).

Feel free to check out and add any suggestions/reqests to the giant list in my signature if you think of anything. I'll probably give it a revamp once its clear R5 is near.
Just this morning I thought "I have to redo the bookmarks because Reapers media explorer can't sort bookmarks" and I'm taking valuable seconds out my day looking up and down that horrible list, which is completely my fault but I can't fix IT !!

Yeah that media explorer fixup/request/suggestion list is a good one.

One feature nobody else has, apart from Nuendo perhaps, is the file index you can make and add to from all over the place. Searching for files has never been so easy, though yeah, it doesn't have a thesaurus like Soundminer, or can search in BWAV descriptions(add them to the index file gentledevs!).

While I could go on about ideas we all have, what's there is a treat to use and I rely on it greatly.

Native always trumps external.
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Old 06-19-2014, 04:33 AM   #19
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Am i alone here? When hand zoom in ME, the view jumps out to nowhere...very annoying.
I'm sorry, I can't reproduce that problem. Would you mind posting your reaper-mouse.ini file? Let me know if you want help finding that file.
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Old 06-19-2014, 05:28 AM   #20
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I'm sorry, I can't reproduce that problem. Would you mind posting your reaper-mouse.ini file? Let me know if you want help finding that file.
Sure. Here it is. Please let me know if you need something more from me to fix this. Thanks!
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Old 06-19-2014, 05:47 AM   #21
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Wasapi seems to work fine without glitches but there is a slight latency that I don't have with asio plus on wasapi I seem to be only able to record with 16 bit.

My laptop is pretty low spec, probably great on a bigger beast,

edit: using exclusive mode allows for 24 bit
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:42 AM   #22
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Just this morning I thought "I have to redo the bookmarks because Reapers media explorer can't sort bookmarks" and I'm taking valuable seconds out my day looking up and down that horrible list, which is completely my fault but I can't fix IT !!

Yeah that media explorer fixup/request/suggestion list is a good one.
Meanwhile, edit the reaper.ini file, in the [reaper_explorer] section? That's what I did.
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:51 AM   #23
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Agree with all the below

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Just this morning I thought "I have to redo the bookmarks because Reapers media explorer can't sort bookmarks" and I'm taking valuable seconds out my day looking up and down that horrible list, which is completely my fault but I can't fix IT !!

Yeah that media explorer fixup/request/suggestion list is a good one.

One feature nobody else has, apart from Nuendo perhaps, is the file index you can make and add to from all over the place. Searching for files has never been so easy, though yeah, it doesn't have a thesaurus like Soundminer, or can search in BWAV descriptions(add them to the index file gentledevs!).

While I could go on about ideas we all have, what's there is a treat to use and I rely on it greatly.

Native always trumps external.
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:52 AM   #24
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While we're on the media explorer, would it be terribly complicated to incorporate some of the jog/scrub functions into mouse access of the displayed waveform at all please?

I use "Jog audio (looped-segment mode)" to scan media items in arrange view for initial orientation and outline searching. This is a very powerful way of locating material within lengthy recordings and would be a very helpful addition to the media explorer to find sections before importing.

Thanks for listening.



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Old 06-19-2014, 09:07 AM   #25
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Sure. Here it is. Please let me know if you need something more from me to fix this. Thanks!
Sorry, still can't get it! Could we have your reaper.ini file too? Thanks.
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:32 AM   #26
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Yep, i can also send a test project just in case. Pls let me know. Thanks
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:47 AM   #27
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For some reason MIDI marker lane, left drag interferes with my middle mouse button behavior.

I have "Hand scroll" in Arrange view, middle drag and liked that the same behavior was also used for middle drag in the MIDI piano roll. Now I would like to have "Hand scroll and horizontal zoom" on the MIDI marker lane left drag. When I do that, the middle mouse button drag can have two different behaviors.

- left click in the marker lane
- middle click+drag in the note area
-> marker lane left drag behavior is performed

- left click in the note area
- middle click+drag in the note area
-> arrange view middle drag behavior is performed

I'd rather have the arrange view behavior only .

Also:

Zooming with either of these ways seems to constantly refresh the CC parameter dropdowns ("Labels" of the CC lanes), makes them unnecessarily flicker a lot. Using the mousewheel or GUI controls to zoom works fine.
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Old 06-19-2014, 10:12 AM   #28
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Why would I want to use WASAPI instead of ASIO?
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:48 AM   #29
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Why would I want to use WASAPI instead of ASIO?
If ASIO wasn't available.
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Old 06-19-2014, 01:15 PM   #30
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Why would I want to use WASAPI instead of ASIO?
Laptops, built-in soundcards.... WASABI makes these usable.... and tasty.
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Old 06-19-2014, 01:22 PM   #31
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With all the crappy services and background stuff turned off, I can have glitch-free playback at 256 samples in shared mode, so I guess most of the popping stems from background activity, which isn't that surprising.

Previous experiments with WASAPI didn't let me get glitchless playback at all and left me totally confused as nothing seemed to work. Now it's behaving in a way that makes sense ie. smaller buffer = more glitches, larger buffer = smoother playback, so I'm totally happy. Obviously I don't expect my low-end laptop with antivirus, firewall and who-knows-what running to achieve good low latency performance but if I can get solid playback with better latency than DirectSound provides (which shouldn't be difficult!) without having to shut everything off then that's just awesome.

Thanks so much!
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:10 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Meanwhile, edit the reaper.ini file, in the [reaper_explorer] section? That's what I did.
Great idea, thanks.

Hey Cockos, do I get a feature implemented if I start hacking the reaper.ini ? Well, "At least that's possible with Reaper"(tm)


Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine
While we're on the media explorer, would it be terribly complicated to incorporate some of the jog/scrub functions into mouse access of the displayed waveform at all please?

I use "Jog audio (looped-segment mode)" to scan media items in arrange view for initial orientation and outline searching. This is a very powerful way of locating material within lengthy recordings and would be a very helpful addition to the media explorer to find sections before importing.
That sounds neat. In really long recordings it's kinda hit and miss for me. Zooming is fairly slow(I use a 2xzoom-action in the arrangement) and you have to SHIFT+drag to scroll, which I never do in the arrangement area. I SHIFT+mousewheel in the arrangement, but there's no context for that in the mouse modifiers for the media explorer waveform overview.


Nathan, how long is your loop-segment time ?

I'd want to do this with an action key I hold down while I move the mouse around. Minimal effort.


Have a question for the devs and Windows afficionados.

How can the FX chain window, or a floating FX window be sent behind the main Reaper window when I click on it ? It happens on random occasions, and when it does I have to restart Reaper a few times. Maybe it's another tool but I haven't been able to lock that down.
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Old 06-20-2014, 03:50 AM   #33
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Setting grid in MIDI editor from a button toolbar in MIDI toolbar doesn't work well yet. Using the action "Grid: Set division to 1/x"
It will cause a flickering in all midi editor window and if you are in triplet mode it will reset the grid to straight.
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Old 06-20-2014, 04:03 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Why would I want to use WASAPI instead of ASIO?
I´ve one USB games headphones...does´nt have asio obiously...but with WASAPI I can hear de headphones without change cables conections to my audio interface...
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Old 06-20-2014, 04:24 AM   #35
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Yep, i can also send a test project just in case. Pls let me know. Thanks
Still can't reproduce. Do you have dual monitors by any chance? If so, does the problem occur on both monitors?
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:09 AM   #36
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Still can't reproduce. Do you have dual monitors by any chance? If so, does the problem occur on both monitors?
I think it works only when Piano roll timebase = Project synced:



Win XP 32, 1 monitor, docked MIDI editor.
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:19 AM   #37
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Still can't reproduce. Do you have dual monitors by any chance? If so, does the problem occur on both monitors?
Yes i have dual screen setup. I'll test this behaviour a bit more and let you know. Thanks
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:38 AM   #38
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Thanks viente. Spk77, I think what you are seeing is different, it's the same behavior as the arrange view zoom: when the zoom would cause the very start of the timeline to move too far right, the zoom re-centers. (The only other way to handle it would be to display negative numbers on the timeline.)
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:51 AM   #39
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Play cursor doesn't display in MIDI editor before the item. and I have just discovered this that may help to catch that bug. it seems it is displayed in the loop region of the item.
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:52 AM   #40
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Thanks viente. Spk77, I think what you are seeing is different, it's the same behavior as the arrange view zoom: when the zoom would cause the very start of the timeline to move too far right, the zoom re-centers. (The only other way to handle it would be to display negative numbers on the timeline.)
That's right, thanks.
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