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02-07-2017, 07:57 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 44
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Powered USB Mixer Not Giving Me Anouth Power, Now What? Please Help!!
Hello all,
I hoping for some suggestions...
I bought a Presonus StudioLive 48V Phantom Powered Mixer. The problem I am having is I need to put the gain on 10 to get a decent signal and that is causing a lot of noise. I have tried several different condenser mics and combinations of different cables, etc. to no avail?
Is there a preamp that works in conjunction with a powered mixer?
Any other thoughts or ideas are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
John
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02-07-2017, 07:58 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbx3john
Hello all,
I hoping for some suggestions...
I bought a Presonus StudioLive 48V Phantom Powered Mixer. The problem I am having is I need to put the gain on 10 to get a decent signal and that is causing a lot of noise. I have tried several different condenser mics and combinations of different cables, etc. to no avail?
Is there a preamp that works in conjunction with a powered mixer?
Any other thoughts or ideas are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
John
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Is the PAD engaged?
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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02-07-2017, 09:19 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 44
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Not sure what that means? What is the pad?
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02-07-2017, 09:26 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 44
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Ok, the PAD - it's not engaged. I tried both ways and still not nearly enough power. Any other thoughts?
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02-07-2017, 09:32 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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OK cool, the mixer has preamps already. What is the source you are recording and how are you going from the unit to the computer.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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02-07-2017, 01:00 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 44
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Recording voice. I have been doing this for about a year no problems using my Focusrite interface. I just bought the Presonus AR12 USB/Firewire. So I am going condenser mic (I have tried 4 of them) into the mixer, mixer into the computer, to Reaper. I'm getting a signal, it's just weak. I need to boost the gain almost to 10 to get a strong enough signal to match the music levels.
Back to one of my questions. Do I need a preamp AND the mixer? The mixer does have 48v phantom power...
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02-07-2017, 02:26 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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OK so it is your interface now. I don't know that board very well... I assume when testing the condensers you have phantom power turned on. Sorry, I can't dig right now as I'm in a bad place for searching around.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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02-07-2017, 02:30 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 44
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No the interface works fine. It's the new mixer that is the problem...
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02-07-2017, 02:36 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbx3john
No the interface works fine. It's the new mixer that is the problem...
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Then what is the actual interface you are using, the doc I looked at made me think the mixer was your sound card (aka it's USB/Firewire). If you are running the mixer into another interface then you need more than just the gain knob, you need both the channel fader and the master fader at zero, then that into the line in of the interface but that all depends on exactly how you are connecting it to the sound card.
That's the missing piece for me, how is the mixer interfacing with the interface? I'm willing to bet there is a piece of the puzzle I'm not aware of yet.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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02-07-2017, 05:29 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 44
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Sorry for the confusion (my fault). My interface is the mixer. It is a Presonus with phantom power (48v). So my set up goes like this.
1. Condenser mic into the presonus XLR
2. USB/Firewire into the computer
Reaper is recognizing the mixer, playback is fine on all of my tracks. Recording direct with a guitar is also fine, as is a mic'd amp, because I can get the volume as high as needed.
So the only issue is the vocal mic is not getting enough juice unless I boost the gain to 10, which is very noisy. It's a pretty simple mixer and I have experimented with all of the settings. I have also reset Reaper, just in case that was the issue.
Again, sorry for the miscommunication and I do appreciate the help.
John
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02-07-2017, 08:18 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbx3john
Sorry for the confusion (my fault). My interface is the mixer. It is a Presonus with phantom power (48v). So my set up goes like this.
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No worries at all, just want to make sure I understand. Unless you sing really softly, I'm not sure what else to check not being familiar with that mixer/interface. Do the faders (not gain knob) change the incoming level when recording? I'm guessing not but figured I'd ask. And I assume the phantom power is enabled/on to power the condensers.
One clue is if recording direct guitar is fine (doesn't require cranking to 10) then I start wondering about the mics, phantom power etc.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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02-07-2017, 09:14 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 44
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Yes I thought my mic died so I grabbed my other and tried them with the same results. I do have the phantom power on. the main sliders only effect the monitoring volume.
If the board doesn't supply enough phantom power should I be looking at other alternatives? Like a mic preamp or maybe some type of software?
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02-07-2017, 10:27 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 5,246
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I don't think this is a phantom power issue...
Without phantom power, the mics wouldn't work at all. And with too little phantom power, you'd see significant difference between two mics. Besides, 48V is on the mixer's face. Presonus is a serious brand, they wouldn't do 24V phantom power.
Please start by telling us which Presonus mixer you use, as there are four different product lines, going from analog with only digital effects to full-blown digital live mixers.
Is it an AR, AL, Classic, RM, RML, Studiolive III, Studiolive RML? Or one of the previous range?
If it's one of the digital ones, you probably need to check the routing.
Still leaves the odd chance there's something wrong with the mixer. That would surprise me, tho...
__________________
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell
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02-07-2017, 11:15 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano
Please start by telling us which Presonus mixer you use, as there are four different product lines, going from analog with only digital effects to full-blown digital live mixers.
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He said it was an AR12 USB/FW.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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02-08-2017, 02:04 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 5,246
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Thanks, Karbo. Missed that. Had a look at the manual... It's a USB audio class compliant device.
I suppose the instrument/mic switch is in the right position?
I don't see immediate problems with routing regarding level. Is the level also low on the mixer's meters and in the headphones?
If you are on Windows, did you check the sound setup control panel?
If you are on a Mac, did you check Midi/audio setup (in Applications/Utilities)?
__________________
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell
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02-08-2017, 02:24 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 5,246
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Then I stumbled upon this:
Quote:
The audio interface worked fine, but there's a serious drop in volume when using the USB return to bring back tracks from the DAW
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https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...r12-mixer.html
But that's a comment about the Soundcraft MTK12...
Could the Presonus suffer from the same shortcoming?
__________________
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell
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02-08-2017, 01:11 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 44
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Wow, thanks for all the help.
I suppose the instrument/mic switch is in the right position? Yes all good there. Like I said I have been recording for almost a year with no issues using a Focusrite interface. When I switherd to the PResonus mixer is when the issues started.
I don't see immediate problems with routing regarding level. Is the level also low on the mixer's meters and in the headphones? The levels seem fine on the mixer, but weak in Reaper.
If you are on Windows, did you check the sound setup control panel? Yes, I'm certain this is set up correctly.
Thanks again!
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02-08-2017, 01:46 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Greece
Posts: 95
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I understad your feelings about getting a new console and can't use it..
I see in the specs that the mic preamp gain is up to 50db, wich i think it's fine for vocals with any condenser.
I also see that you can record to an sd card.
If you have one, maybe you can try to record something there, and then transfer it in Reaper to check what are the levels.
If it is ok, then it is not the preamps, but something with the connection.
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02-08-2017, 01:50 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Let me ask this. You certainly appear to be on top of things but just as a sanity check, when are you trying to set the gain, what do the meters in Reaper show? I don't think this is it but worth checking since DAW meters are not like analog meters and you do *not* need to get the levels up to the very top without clipping - not that you are but again, sanity checks. Without checking the presonus manual, a properly recorded vocal should show about -18 dBFS RMS in Reaper which means most peaks are going to be in that -12 to -6 range and be just fine.
Keep in mind the track meter shows peaks not RMS but you could leave the track fader at zero when setting the level, solo the track, the use Reaper's master track to see the RMS level.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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02-08-2017, 07:15 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 44
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Yes, good questions. I am in the newbie forum for a reason
I attached a screen capture of the vocal track. This was recorded with the gain set to around 9 (scale of 1-10). Does this help? Does this look unusually low? With my Focusrite I could set the gain to 5 and I would be clipping on louder parts of the song.
Again, your help is much appreciated.
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
Let me ask this. You certainly appear to be on top of things but just as a sanity check, when are you trying to set the gain, what do the meters in Reaper show? I don't think this is it but worth checking since DAW meters are not like analog meters and you do *not* need to get the levels up to the very top without clipping - not that you are but again, sanity checks. Without checking the presonus manual, a properly recorded vocal should show about -18 dBFS RMS in Reaper which means most peaks are going to be in that -12 to -6 range and be just fine.
Keep in mind the track meter shows peaks not RMS but you could leave the track fader at zero when setting the level, solo the track, the use Reaper's master track to see the RMS level.
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02-08-2017, 07:57 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 1,075
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It sounds to me like you do not have the TRIM knob adjusted appropriately.
The TRIM knob controls the PREAMP GAIN which sets the input level prior to the EQ section and FADER. The fact that you state that you've set the GAIN to 10 indicates to me that you are actually talking about the Channel Fader since the fader goes up to +10 dB at its maximum setting. Whereas the TRIM goes up to +50 for Mic Input or +30 for Line Input. A Trim setting of +10 is rather low for the preamp and should not make any noise at all, whereas it will probably get a little noisy if you have to push it all the way up to +50.
The fact that you get any change in your recording at all indicates to me that the per-channel recording via USB is POST-FADER. This means that even after the level is set correctly using the Trim you can still affect the record level using the Fader. The only reason you'd ever need to go above Unity on the fader is if you've reduced too much volume by using excessive subtractive EQ. Otherwise, a fader is nearly ALWAYS at Unity (0 dB, no gain or attenuation) or below.
You need to follow the Level Setting Procedure on page 4 of the owner's manual.
http://www-media-presonus.netdna-ssl...N_06022017.pdf
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02-08-2017, 08:29 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 44
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Insub, thanks for the reply.
I think I am using some of the wrong terminology. When I said "10" I meant "almost all the way up" not actually "10". My fault on that. Yes, I have set this up exactly as page 4 describes and the problem persists. I have tried literally every "trim" and channel 1 fader combination with no luck. I hope this helps. And again, thanks for the help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by insub
It sounds to me like you do not have the TRIM knob adjusted appropriately.
The TRIM knob controls the PREAMP GAIN which sets the input level prior to the EQ section and FADER. The fact that you state that you've set the GAIN to 10 indicates to me that you are actually talking about the Channel Fader since the fader goes up to +10 dB at its maximum setting. Whereas the TRIM goes up to +50 for Mic Input or +30 for Line Input. A Trim setting of +10 is rather low for the preamp and should not make any noise at all, whereas it will probably get a little noisy if you have to push it all the way up to +50.
The fact that you get any change in your recording at all indicates to me that the per-channel recording via USB is POST-FADER. This means that even after the level is set correctly using the Trim you can still affect the record level using the Fader. The only reason you'd ever need to go above Unity on the fader is if you've reduced too much volume by using excessive subtractive EQ. Otherwise, a fader is nearly ALWAYS at Unity (0 dB, no gain or attenuation) or below.
You need to follow the Level Setting Procedure on page 4 of the owner's manual.
http://www-media-presonus.netdna-ssl...N_06022017.pdf
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02-09-2017, 01:50 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Padova
Posts: 1,626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbx3john
Yes, good questions. I am in the newbie forum for a reason
I attached a screen capture of the vocal track. This was recorded with the gain set to around 9 (scale of 1-10). Does this help? Does this look unusually low? With my Focusrite I could set the gain to 5 and I would be clipping on louder parts of the song.
Again, your help is much appreciated.
John
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if the fader in reaper track is at 0, it looks like you have a nice level for that recording!
anyway, forget reaper for a second... you have a nice "PFL" button on your mixer, push it and take a look to the meter on the mixer, set the gain level all the way down and check for the level there. You should rise the gain level till you are around the 0 on the mixer meter.
How much did you rise the gain knob? it's still neat it's maximum?
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02-09-2017, 06:08 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 1,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbx3john
I have tried several different condenser mics and combinations of different cables, etc. to no avail?
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I assume that you've tried all 8 channels that have Mic preamps?
And, that you are activating the Channel's Input in your Reaper track (as opposed to the Master or other aux bus)?
Did you purchase this unit new or used? If it's new then you probably need to call customer support and return the item if deemed defective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbx3john
Is there a preamp that works in conjunction with a (Phantom) powered mixer?
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Yes, of course you could use any preamp. Like another mixer or an independent preamp like an Art Tube MP Studio which you'd use the line out to a line input on your Presonus AR12.
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02-09-2017, 05:03 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 44
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Thanks for all the help everyone. I think I'll be sending this mixer back. I have tried everything....
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