Why do themes start fast and finish slow or not at all

[Garrick]

Please don't think I am criticizing but just an observation of threads that I have followed, that a theme will start with a hiss and a roar and then a week later come grinding to a halt.

I'm thinking of that Reason theme and that Abbey road console theme but plenty others as well.

I haven't myself opened the Pandoras box of learning Walter. I have enough trouble completing my own music as it is.

Is Walter the culprit?
Or is it something else?

I don't participate in this sub forum that much but I check in often and love seeing the creativity that you visual creative types have cause I'm pretty much crap at that angle

I loved the day that Albert started the pro tools theme and watch it develop over many months and same for plenty other themes.

One thought, does your theme come to a halt because you are over saturated with seeing the same damn theme for countless hours and thus become hyper critical of your own work?

[4x4uk]

Personally I think there is just a lot of work involved and then this gets made overly complicated by people chiming in on the forum I love the theme but prefer if mixer panel/ tcp had this button slightly lighter darker etc. This often trebles the workload for the themer and it just ends up as an insurmountable task and never finished.


Is that a fault of walter some possibly is until you get used to it. Some is the fault of the themer maybe not having a clear goal and project timescale etc

[TimOBrien]

No different than any other programming project...
(Been there, done that)

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by TimOBrien

No different than any other programming project...
(Been there, done that)

Yep, for humans in general its that new car smell problem. At first its extremely exciting and motivating but the final details and home stretch feels like work and the point where true diligence and pushing to get to the end is required and the place where most jump ship. It's true for everyone to one degree or another.

Wanna be great at something, finish at all costs, anyone can start something, few can actually go the extra mile and finish.

[Argle]

same reason why it's easy to start a song and much harder to finish it.

[DarkStar]

Or even finish a complete sent ....

[cincikat69]

Originally Posted by Garrick

...and that Abbey road console theme...

That is because Cal (the original creator) became very seriously ill, and is no longer around. I was asked by his collaborator not too long ago to help finish it, and I am attempting to do just that...quite a challenge to pick up where one left off.

Originally Posted by TimOBrien

No different than any other programming project...

Having to constantly tweak the graphics and code to make sure everything aligns to a visual idea and functions as it should is very energy-intensive.

Originally Posted by 4x4uk

Personally I think there is just a lot of work involved and then this gets made overly complicated by people chiming in on the forum I love the theme but prefer if mixer panel/ tcp had this button slightly lighter darker etc. This often trebles the workload for the themer and it just ends up as an insurmountable task and never finished.

Yes, indeed... There are those that are not satisfied to allow the creator of the work to just have his vision. They want it how they want it, and don't consider the amount of time and energy expended in doing it in the first place. Then the pressure builds and the motivation just gets sucked right out.



To sum up - everyone should keep in mind that theme makers are just human...they have lives, issues and complications just like anyone else. Sometimes the reason for not completing a project is outside of their control, and may have nothing to do with just giving up or boredom. Just like anything else in life...shit happens.

[4x4uk]

Originally Posted by cincikat69

That is because Cal (the original creator) became very seriously ill, and is no longer around. I was asked by his collaborator not too long ago to help finish it, and I am attempting to do just that...quite a challenge to pick up where one left off.




Having to constantly tweak the graphics and code to make sure everything aligns to a visual idea and functions as it should is very energy-intensive.



Yes, indeed... There are those that are not satisfied to allow the creator of the work to just have his vision. They want it how they want it, and don't consider the amount of time and energy expended in doing it in the first place. Then the pressure builds and the motivation just gets sucked right out.



To sum up - everyone should keep in mind that theme makers are just human...they have lives, issues and complications just like anyone else. Sometimes the reason for not completing a project is outside of their control, and may have nothing to do with just giving up or boredom. Just like anything else in life...shit happens.

i still keep thinking every theme is an awful lot of work for one person and while they may be great at graphics walter throws them or vice versa

there are a couple of notable exceptions white tie albert and yourself to name a few.

I know I can work round walter o but I suck at creating graphics from scratch.. A lot of the unfinished themes seem to me that the themer is great at graphics then loses their way later on trying to get it all finished in walter

if it was possible to manage a collaborative approach with a pool of people then that may be a way forward

[Icchan]

I think it's because everything starts as "i'll do this, it's going to be great!" and then they're confronted by how difficult and time consuming trivial tasks are with reapers customization with themes.

Customizing Reaper isn't as easy as it could be IMHO. Meaning that you'll have to manually enter all the stuff to a file with external editor and then when you need to test that it is how you meant it to be, you'll have to do quite a few steps to get it tested and see how it works or doesn't.

If it would support something like pressing one button to see if the changes are good and give you any debugging information, it would be much easier and faster to do themes. What's more, a good GUI editor right inside the reaper would be a great. Who makes that happen?

Being able to change coordinates of stuff or other parameters right where you see 'em and being able to see them applied in real time could make it far easier to do.

That's a lot of work of course, but quite doable.

And since we're on the topic, I have huge amount of respect for the Cockos for making it possible to customize so much stuff, to be able to script your own JSFX "plugins" etc. but they have a long way to go to make it easy, fast and more accessible.

Maybe we need some open source projects to Git-hub that would create some good tools for users?

I would kill for proper GUI for JSFX and a good editor for coding them if necessary.

But we might have to wait for them a long time.

[pattste]

Originally Posted by Garrick

a theme will start with a hiss and a roar and then a week later come grinding to a halt.

Because it's more complicated than it seems, it's a lot of work and the themers get discouraged. Also, we're a thankless bunch, which doesn't help. "I'd gladly pay (two bucks) if you (spent 100 hours to) complete theme XYZ."

[The Demon]

I think another issue is, in general:

- Original poster: Hey, look at what I am working on!
- Other people 1: Nice, can you change this?
- Other poster 2: I don't like what you did in this version. Change it back
- Other poster 3: What's with the colour scheme?
- Other poster 4: Can you make it sparkle? Oh and add some pink lasers please?
- Original poster: Ehhrm.. I was just sharing what I was making for myself, but I guess I'll try to please EVERYONE now.
- Work slows down and the final product becomes not the original poster's project anymore, so motivation goes down.

I don't make themes, but I have noticed that this happens a lot here.

Just sayin'

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by pattste

Because it's more complicated than it seems, it's a lot of work and the themers get discouraged. Also, we're a thankless bunch, which doesn't help. "I'd gladly pay (two bucks) if you (spent 100 hours to) complete theme XYZ."

Exactly my thoughts. I made a donation of $20 to a theme maker, and he was so thankful for it. Seriously, I thought $20 was not much for all the work. I should donate again.

[uksnowy]

My penny worth. I think this is a great question to bring up.

I appreciate that creating themes must be a great deal of work but so are a lot of other things that DO get finished.

I support the notion that the projects are too fluid. Themers should just get on with it and release their project as they want it and not pander to the many who want customisations. If they want them so bad, let them do it themselves.

How many of us would make changes to our music because someone else says they don't like that particular chord progression. Not many of us, I bet.

Themers - we are right behind you. We want you to finish some of these fantastic themes. Provide regular progress in the group, if you wish, but don't allow your project to get hijacked. Stick to your goal.

And to the rest of us - leave them alone. Let them get on with creating their work. And when it is finished dam well appreciate it for what it is. Otherwise, we will have no themers.. then what?

[hopi]

Originally Posted by cincikat69

To sum up - everyone should keep in mind that theme makers are just human...they have lives, issues and complications just like anyone else. Sometimes the reason for not completing a project is outside of their control, and may have nothing to do with just giving up or boredom. Just like anything else in life...shit happens.

have to not agree Cinci.... theme makers are clearly NOT human... maybe they were at one time, before they dove into theme making, ...but after that they change and become bizarre cave dwellers, living in small dark rooms lit only by a computer monitor and in the last stages of this transformation they all develop almost total tunnel vision where they can't see anything other than what is on the screen. If you try to speak with them they ramble on in a series of numbers [comma separated] and cryptic png names... It's a terrible thing to see happen to anyone you know!

[edkilp]

Originally Posted by The Demon

I think another issue is, in general:

- Original poster: Hey, look at what I am working on!
- Other people 1: Nice, can you change this?
- Other poster 2: I don't like what you did in this version. Change it back
- Other poster 3: What's with the colour scheme?
- Other poster 4: Can you make it sparkle? Oh and add some pink lasers please?
- Original poster: Ehhrm.. I was just sharing what I was making for myself, but I guess I'll try to please EVERYONE now.
- Work slows down and the final product becomes not the original poster's project anymore, so motivation goes down.

I don't make themes, but I have noticed that this happens a lot here.

Just sayin'

I basically said the exact same thing in another thread once. I don't do themes, but if i did, I'd probably be one of those, "this is it, take it or leave it" kinda guys. Once they start gettin bombarded with requests to tweak this and change that, I would imagine the fun diminishes, the excitement dwindles, and it starts to feel like a job. I'm thankful to those who make these things, but I'll never try to do it!

[Mink99]

The first 80% of the work will take 80% of the time, the remaining 20% another 80%.
Recursive ...

[Mr. Data]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

Or even finish a complete sent ....

I dunno what you actually m...


-Data

[whiteaxxxe]

Originally Posted by hopi

have to not agree Cinci.... theme makers are clearly NOT human... maybe they were at one time, before they dove into theme making, ...but after that they change and become bizarre cave dwellers, living in small dark rooms lit only by a computer monitor and in the last stages of this transformation they all develop almost total tunnel vision where they can't see anything other than what is on the screen. If you try to speak with them they ramble on in a series of numbers [comma separated] and cryptic png names... It's a terrible thing to see happen to anyone you know!

so they are these walking deads that are not so dangerous as the ones from the TV-documentation I once saw? :-))

[cincikat69]

Originally Posted by hopi

have to not agree Cinci.... theme makers are clearly NOT human... maybe they were at one time, before they dove into theme making, ...but after that they change and become bizarre cave dwellers, living in small dark rooms lit only by a computer monitor and in the last stages of this transformation they all develop almost total tunnel vision where they can't see anything other than what is on the screen. If you try to speak with them they ramble on in a series of numbers [comma separated] and cryptic png names... It's a terrible thing to see happen to anyone you know!

LOL!!! Although, I do have a lantern on my cave wall...for now. (~;

[mixer]

Originally Posted by Mr. Data

I dunno what you actually m...


-Data

See the following link for an expla