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10-14-2014, 01:49 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 74
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Vice versa sidechain doesn't work (SOLVED)
Hi
The following architecture doesn't work, and causes two issues.
Final mix group
---Playback group ==> sends to Vocals sidechain
------Guitars group
---------gtr a
---------gtr b
---------...
---Vocals group ==> sends to Guitars sidechain
The issues caused by that are:
1. the sidechain sent to the guitar doesn't work (muted).
2. pressing the Play button starts loud crackles for 3-4 seconds (then the playback is stabilized, until next Play).
Have fun debugging this one... ^_^
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10-14-2014, 04:50 PM
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#2
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Seems to be a bit weird routing, guitars sidechaining the vocals sidechaining the guitars?
Anyway, can you upload a project (boilt down to the necessary tracks/plugins, no audio files needed - just the *.rpp, you can use the "Manage Attachments" thingie under your post formular) with that routing to make it possible to recreate the issue(s)?
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10-15-2014, 01:14 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vicksburg, Ms
Posts: 179
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I must say that I don't understand what this routing is for either. Thinking about it caused my mind to almost have a meltdown!
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10-15-2014, 02:36 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booli
Hi
Final mix group
---Playback group ==> sends to Vocals sidechain
------Guitars group
---------gtr a
---------gtr b
---------...
---Vocals group ==> sends to Guitars sidechain
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Hi Booli,
just for clarification,
Final mix group = Master Buss ?
Are your groups grouped tracks or Folders or Subbusses?
Sidechaining a Compressor?
Vinod
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10-15-2014, 08:40 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
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You've created a feedback loop routing, which reaper disables by default.
When enabled it breaks PDC, so not useful in most cases.
Solutions:
1) If you put the guitars out of 'playback group' it will work.
2) create another 'vox master' track to which 'vox group'
is routed, and send the signal from 'playback' there, now
move the FX to that track as well for sidechaining.
Why are you sending playback group to vocals anyway?
e
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10-16-2014, 01:52 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 74
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@VinodXAgent
yes, final mix = master buss
grouping by foldering. BTW, does it differ than using buss? (because in the routing matrix it looks the same)
indeed sidechaining the compressor ^_^
@EricM
good question.
entire playback group is sent to the vocals group to sidechain Waves Vocal Rider (actually Melda MAutoVolume, but it less familiar, and as just the same. Sorry, not the same. BETTER! For much (much!!) less money)
vocals group is sent to the guitars to duck the mid range using a compressor with sidechain
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10-16-2014, 02:09 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM
2) create another 'vox master' track to which 'vox group'
is routed, and send the signal from 'playback' there, now
move the FX to that track as well for sidechaining.
e
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It doesn't work. I guess we can't fool Reaper, and for it, it's just the same routing... :-(
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10-16-2014, 02:40 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
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Ok got it. So afaik the 'vocal rider' should create a volume envelope,
so you feed it the signal once and bake the automation. Than enable
the guitar ducking to give vocal more space in the mix.
That 2) should work, unless the signal from master vox is somehow
routed back to 'playback group'. Could you post a rpp file with media
items stripped so we can check the routing?
Also to clarify: folder routing == send routing with master/parent ticked off.
e
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10-16-2014, 03:13 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM
Also to clarify: folder routing == send routing with master/parent ticked off.
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Not quite, as in send routing you see the send draw in the mixer on, and in folder routing you can't see it (no send draws are on).
For your idea of creating envelope - great idea. thanks!
For uploading project - no prob. plus all the audio media? actually most of my project is midi+vst instruments, so I'm not sure if the media is really necessary or valuable for the troubleshooting. isn't it?
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10-16-2014, 09:37 AM
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#10
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
Anyway, can you upload a project (boilt down to the necessary tracks/plugins, no audio files needed - just the *.rpp, you can use the "Manage Attachments" thingie under your post formular) with that routing to make it possible to recreate the issue(s)?
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I somehow feel ignored...
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10-16-2014, 11:26 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
I somehow feel ignored...
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He's just playing A Musical Joke.
e
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10-16-2014, 01:17 PM
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#12
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Haha! The line dude also tried e-guitar - once
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10-16-2014, 02:10 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
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lol, I'm sure he couldn't bear the tension anymore, being constantly online
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10-18-2014, 02:38 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 74
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Sorry @gofer for missing your post in my previous answer. I guess I was flooded with multitude suggestions..^_^
Anyway, the issue is resolved by setting on "Allow feedback in routing" in the Project Preferences - Advanced tab.
Thanks for the assistance!
Booli.
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10-18-2014, 03:09 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booli
the issue is resolved by setting on "Allow feedback in routing" in the Project Preferences - Advanced tab.
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Let me just say this again, this option breaks plug-in
delay compensation, which means you are likely introducing
phasing and timing issues in the mix.
e
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10-18-2014, 01:19 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 74
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Oh... thanks for mention that once again.
So I'll just get off this double routing, by taking AutoVolume movement into an envelope once, and then remove the routing to it.
Thanks.
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