Reaper Internal mixing - Parent / Child / Submixes

[Liquid Fusion]

Anyone know how to record a stereo mix from stereo submix sends - in the Reaper session - that sounds decent - without going out into analog and back? When I send stereo submixes to an internal track which is set to record output / stereo - the result is not as good as hearing the music through Master out. Usually, you might render a track to make a mixdown. Instead of rendering, I want to mixdown all to a stereo track in the session. This way I can stop / start the mixdown whenever vs having to wait for rendering to complete. Mix = 11 hrs. Tried recording Master out Reaper via (Echo Audio / Layla 3G) - 5/6 to 3/4 (Echo Audio / Layla 3G) inputs: sounded good - except you have degradation of digital to analog to digital. Like to keep all digital.

[Andy Hamm]

Rendering and importing the media onto the track doesn't work for what you are trying to do?

[Liquid Fusion]

Originally Posted by Andy Hamm

Rendering and importing the media onto the track doesn't work for what you are trying to do?

Not sure rendering is happening here. Playing the session and having stereo submixes (with plugins) feed an internal track set record output / stereo. Mix contains 11 hours of music: many individual songs.

Master out does not have a way to send stereo tracks back into the session - keeping all digital. Yes, I could render an 11 hour mix. Absolutely can't use my computer at all during the rendering. Anything wrong, I lose the entire rendering. Yes you can make a render queue. Lots of songs. Trying to avoid that.

[Andy Hamm]

Does your interface have digital outs and ins? Or are you using two PC's? In any case you can go digital out to digital in and avoid conversion to analog.

[Fergler]

Have you confirmed that it really doesn't sound as good as your master?

I've done the same thing a few times and found no difference.

Try a null test, it may reveal a clue to where the difference is if there is one.

[Liquid Fusion]

Hi. Not just me, but the other producer/ Artist noticed a sound difference between Master Out and Submix send to sub Master AFTER recording: result contained mostly highs / little lows (each was a submix). Before recording submixes, Master Out and Sub Master / Soloed both sounded the same.

Just rendered and love the result. Realize I might have to render multiple songs as render queues, then cut all into single songs later. Was going to cut wavs no matter which way the cards fell. Rendering gives a full dynamic sound (highs and bass are all present) - that was NOT present when recording stereo output on track (Sub Master) that had stereo sends from stereo submixes.

Very disappointing No Master stereo send back to track in session. Also that internal mixing to Submaster is not good AFTER recording. Null Test before both sounded great. Quality of mix when recording Stereo out (from internal submixes) - is where the ball gets dropped.

[pipelineaudio]

How much did they null?

[Liquid Fusion]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

How much did they null?

They just sounded very similar - almost the same - BEFORE recording vs AFTER

Tried the null test now - recording then reversing and playing the mix plus the reversed track. Probably screwed it up. Heard everything.

What's interesting - recording a submix - having sends go right direct to the Submaster / Track 1 - Highs / Lows are now there!! Need to test this more. Earlier, I had sends from submixes going to stereo trk below the SubMaster / Track 2 (comp plugins), and then sent Trk (2) to Submaster (Trk 1) via sends. Bass submix (electronic synth) = EQ mix - very deep / low. Dialed this manufactured bass against same song mixed for highs / mids. Wonder if headphones (now) are clearer than listening to speakers (Earlier)? Spirits in the Studio? Listening again when all is quiet vs the Artist here - different energies?

[Liquid Fusion]

Collapsed all submixes - easier to make all CHILD to Submaster Track #1 / PARENT

- Now all music flows to Trk 1 - then on to Master Out - no need to SOLO!!

Trk 1 - Parent = record / stereo out
Trk 2 = Sub Parent / Child of Track 1 - Comp Plugins
Trk 3 = Child of Track 2 - EQ Plugins (Highs / Mids)
Trk 4 = Child of Track 3 - Source Left
Trk 5 = Child of Track 3 - Source Right

Trk 18 = Sub Parent / Child of Track 1 - Comp Plugins Removed - they are now on Trk 2
Trk 19 = Child of Track 18 - EQ Plugins (Deep Lows)
Trk 20 = Child of Track 19 - Source Left
Trk 21 = Child of Track 10 - Source Right

Recorded stereo out has Highs / lows. Sounds just like a rendered mix!!! Trying to get a sense of mixing in Reaper with submixes. Changed the name of this thread to what is really the situation - Parent / Child / Submix - when internally recording in a session to a SubMaster track.

[Jack Winter]

One trick for long recordings. If you create a time selection (one song), then create a region from that, when you go to render you can render regions and even have the resulting files named like the regions (by using wildcards in the filename). What I've been doing for a long time with band practice and live recordings.

[Liquid Fusion]

Originally Posted by Jack Winter

One trick for long recordings. If you create a time selection (one song), then create a region from that, when you go to render you can render regions and even have the resulting files named like the regions (by using wildcards in the filename). What I've been doing for a long time with band practice and live recordings.

Very cool. 11 hours of songs. Was thinking of making Mix Render queues highlighting sections like you describe.

Problem with Render Queue - when you suddenly want to stop - you can't.

Instead, you need to wait for EACH Render Queue mix to load (with Plugins) and then cancel. If you have plugins on your tracks (and I do), you must add in time to load plugins before you can cancel each Render queue. Reaper, ASAIK, has no emergency STOP method here.

- Making an 11 hour 2 track stereo mix on the Submaster track - you can stop whenever you want
- And start up exactly where you left off
- Making submixes CHILD to Submaster / PARENT (collapsing tracks easily allows this) makes routing unnecessary
- Sound flow is now from submixes direct to SubMaster and then to Master out
- No more competition from submixes going straight to Master Out and submixes going to Track 1 by sends

Bottom Line: Sound of mix is exactly what is in 2 track recorded stereo submix on Track 1. Staying in digital realm. Client is dancing on the moon. What can I say. Reaper is phenomenal! So are the people here.

Purpose of Submixes - different volumes of EQ / Lows - against top submix tracks - EQ / Mids / highs


Over view - Reaper doing a great / amazing job


Child Submixes expanded - audio can only go through SubMaster / Track 1 (Recorded 2 Trk Stereo Mix) - then to Master Out


SubMaster Track 1 / Parent to Child Submixes


Reaper Energy!! - Fillet Mignon Steak w/Garlic / Vanilla Chobanni / Java

[Liquid Fusion]

Parent / Child Mixing - SubMaster Mix / Trk #1 = Rendered Mix








Playback of finished submixes - mute all main Child Tracks. Simple.



You can make a template of your submixes to further work on more material needing similar treatment

[serr]

Originally Posted by Liquid Fusion

Not sure rendering is happening here. Playing the session and having stereo submixes (with plugins) feed an internal track set record output / stereo. Mix contains 11 hours of music: many individual songs.

Master out does not have a way to send stereo tracks back into the session - keeping all digital. Yes, I could render an 11 hour mix. Absolutely can't use my computer at all during the rendering. Anything wrong, I lose the entire rendering. Yes you can make a render queue. Lots of songs. Trying to avoid that.

You can click to select a track (the track itself, not the audio item in it).
Then choose 'selected tracks (stems)' in the render window. The post fader output from selected tracks gets rendered (no matter what else is going on on the mixing board).

As for the Reaper master fader:
This is only intended to be used as a hardware output master.
It's SOP to make your own mix master bus track and route it to the hardware output master. (tracks in Reaper are 'universal' and used for source/bus/master)
Then you have no restrictions and you can route sends from your mix master bus if needed.

If your computer is maxed out during a heavy project render, well that's that then! If it was a lighter project, there would be no restriction on multitasking. (Unless that's unique to OSX or something.)