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12-05-2016, 03:54 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Dither or not? That is the question
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12-05-2016, 09:01 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Yes or no?
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12-05-2016, 09:24 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,272
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Yes. When you're done messing with the levels and really ready to render to fixed point final file, add dither.
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12-05-2016, 11:06 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
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Dither every time you reduce word length.
Only use shaped dither on the final render.
e.g.: bounce from REAPER project to stereo 24bit file - flat dither.
Process that 24bit file and render to 16bit for final format - shaped dither.
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12-05-2016, 12:18 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt
Yes. When you're done messing with the levels and really ready to render to fixed point final file, add dither.
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Did you listen to/read the info under the links?
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12-05-2016, 12:27 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker
Did you listen to/read the info under the links?
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I couldn't find any mention of dithering in the links you gave.
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12-05-2016, 12:33 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
I couldn't find any mention of dithering in the links you gave.
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Really? The links were under the audio show on soundcloud.
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12-05-2016, 12:35 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker
Really? The links were under the audio show on soundcloud.
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Have you read them?
I don't have time right now to listen to a whole show. Could you give us the gist of what they said about dithering?
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12-05-2016, 12:59 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker
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Just looked at the first one. Gave the same advice as me. Flat dither (triangular) whenever you reduce word length (reduce bit depth), and shaped dither for final products (if reducing word length).
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12-05-2016, 01:40 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
Just looked at the first one. Gave the same advice as me. Flat dither (triangular) whenever you reduce word length (reduce bit depth), and shaped dither for final products (if reducing word length).
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Ok, thanks for the suggestion!
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12-05-2016, 02:22 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,926
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Vitalker, do you know what dither actually does? Why it is used?
Try this: Digital Show and Tell (Monty Montgomery @ xiph.org) for an accessible introduction and start watching at about 8:40 for bit-depth (more correctly, word-length) with the detail on dither is 11:35 onwards. TBH, everybody here should watch this annually to ground themselves
This should help you understand it and why it is used, and help you gauge the relative importance of it in the audio recording/mixing/mastering process.
>
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12-05-2016, 02:29 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine
This should help you understand it and why it is used, and help you gauge the relative importance of it in the audio recording/mixing/mastering process.
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Ok, thank you! This video is great, especially if you are not a native English speaker
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12-05-2016, 03:20 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
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Cool video fro xiph. It was a big turnaround for me to realise that dithering actually prevents distortion rather than masking it.
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12-05-2016, 04:21 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 444
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Yeah, watched it multiple times and recommended to many people I know.
One thing I disagree about with the guy from XIPH is that consumer-grade A/D converters are any good. There are more effects in play than he accounts for, mainly in the clock stability domain.
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12-11-2016, 07:31 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avocadomix
One thing I disagree about with the guy from XIPH is that consumer-grade A/D converters are any good. There are more effects in play than he accounts for, mainly in the clock stability domain.
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Jitter manifests as distortion, and if it was a problem with consumer grade A/D converters it would show up in their distortion figures.
Have a look at this page and the graph on it.
http://audiosciencereview.com/forum/...ing.461/page-2
Even 1ns peak to peak jitter only produces distortion at around -90db below full scale at 20Khz. If an audio interface has lower distortion than that at 20Khz it has less than 1ns jitter, and that includes a lot of cheap gear.
It isn't that jitter doesn't matter, it's just a question of reasonable perspective. If you can't make a brilliant sounding recording with a $50 Sound Blaster Audigy FX, you can't blame the sound blaster. Better fidelity than most bands in most studios had up till the mid 90's. Miles better than the tape machines Pink Floyd had to record The Wall.
Last edited by drumphil; 12-11-2016 at 10:17 PM.
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12-11-2016, 09:29 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine
TBH, everybody here should watch this annually to ground themselves This should help you understand it and why it is used, and help you gauge the relative importance of it in the audio recording/mixing/mastering process.
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Yes, should be required watching before anyone is allowed to say anything about digital audio.
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