Old 02-03-2009, 11:49 AM   #1
Weasel
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Default Mastering tools link?

I give up... I've spent a couple of hours now searching the forums (fora?) for a post here in which you kind and noble souls turned us on to an out-of-the-mainstream software vendor, (other than Cockos). The vendor offered an Ozone-like bundle of tools that includes a phase analyzer/corrector, stereo image analyzer, and spectrum analyzer, along with the usual mutiband compressors and EQ; as well as a web-based mastering guide. I recall this as being less than $200.

So of course, being me, I lost the bookmark when I switched computers. I figured searching here would make it pop up, but no! Multiple web searches do not yield the guide and links that I remember reading just a few weeks ago-- which is why I can't say this is a mainstream software package-- that along with the price. Does this description ring a bell with anyone?

Thanks!
r
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:34 PM   #2
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Maybe you mean the Stillwell plugs?

Michael
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Old 02-03-2009, 02:21 PM   #3
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Default mastering tools

I SOMEWHAT REMBER THE POST I BELIVE IT WAS BIN- SOMETHING

MAYBE BIN-Q TRY A SEARCH FOR VISUAL MASTERING...
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Old 02-03-2009, 02:47 PM   #4
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maybe you mean t-racks by IK Multimedia?

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...ard?sku=703542


...but it doesn't have much that you couldn't do with Reaper's plugins.
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Old 02-03-2009, 02:51 PM   #5
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I'm not shure what are you looking for? Spectrum analyzer for mastering, ore plugins for mastering, or both? If both, I can tell you iZotope ozone is nice, but only for looking on it, unfortunatelly it sounds harsy and grainy, and there are much better equalizers and limiters. Even freeware Antress Limiter is much better. About analysers... well, there aren't many good ones. Roger nichols hase some quite food, but hard to set up properly. Ozone has quite good analyzer. The best I've ever seen are standalone only, but can take output from Reaper or other DAW.
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:01 PM   #6
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Is this it?

http://www.har-bal.com/index.php?/ma...g-tutorial.php

It's less than $100.00 and looks to be very promising.

Has anyone else tried it?

Dave
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:11 PM   #7
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Kjaerhus Golden audio Channel 1 is very Ozone like,perhaps that's it

$195

http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/gac-1.php
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:22 PM   #8
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Buying expensive,"Mastering" software may not mean you get any better results.You may be better served buying some good tutorials for a lot less and using Reaper's provided FX plug-ins.

Check out,"Loser's" mix challenge using Reaper and some free plug-ins,

http://www.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/ReaperTutorials


https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/15531/L...lendar_Mix.mp3

If the file doesn't play in your browser right click and open in a new window/tab.
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:39 PM   #9
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Dave....yeah...I use Harbal all the time. I like it alot.
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:39 PM   #10
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Default Merdave hit it!!!

Thanks everybody!!! It is the Har-bal page that I was referring to!! I've looked at and sometimes use most of the other software mentioned here as well. And the Reaper effects seem to be most excellent... but I am not so good at managing settings since I'm a neophyte and I think the Har-Bal approach might help me train my ears. Thanks again everyone!
By the way has anyone actually tried the Har-Bal related stuff?
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy View Post
Dave....yeah...I use Harbal all the time. I like it alot.
Doughboy, you're the first person I've heard say they use it. I don't suppose you could supply some before and after samples? I'm curious about it.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:35 AM   #12
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Har-Bal is working on a VST version so I'll probally wait for it to come out. In the meantime I'll continue reading "ReaMix" by Geoffrey Francis while I'm waiting and then decide if I really need this plugin.

Those who are using it: what, in particular, do you really like about this program?

Dave

Last edited by merdave; 02-04-2009 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:12 PM   #13
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For a hundred bucks....it's well worth it. You just bring up the file of your song. And it will show you the EQ spectrum. You can see where there are build ups in frequecies and you can fix them. Also, you can see where there are spikes or drop outs...and again..it just takes a second to make the adjustment.

You can also bring up a reference of which ever song you like....and see what that eq spectrum looks like.....if you want you can match the two. Sometimes this sounds good....sometimes it doesn't it depends on alot of things....but, that's not really what your suppose to do with the program anyway....however, you can also use the reference to adjust your volume so it matchs or is close.

Not everyone likes the program....beats me why. But....I like it.

Here is a link to my site....the first two songs are the last two that my daughter and I did. That streaming audio is kind of crappy though, so it's kind of hard to tell anything with that.

http://www.virtualstudiosystems.com/...hp?ArtistID=73
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:14 PM   #14
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I use Har-bal quite a bit. It's a great tool - I suggest you read the tutorial, especially the part about Empathetic Equalization. That, IMHO, is what makes it great.

Used correctly, you can really do some amazing things with it - especially restoring old/crappy recordings. It is, of course, capable of completely fscking your mix too. Read the tutorial.

To me it is only one step in a mastering chain, albeit an important one (again IMHO). It's limiter doesn't do much for me, but for frequency balancing (note I didn't say EQ!) it's quite cool.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:04 PM   #15
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Doughboy

Enjoyed your rockin'-country-with-a-touch-of-blues sound!

I could hear the "frequency balancing" result that willowhaus mentioned.

Thanks,
Dave
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:02 AM   #16
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I read the info on the Har-Bal site, and it looks like you could duplicate their process with ReaFIR in compressor mode to a certain extent. But it seems like the Har-Bal interface makes the process easier
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:42 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheppola View Post
Buying expensive,"Mastering" software may not mean you get any better results.You may be better served buying some good tutorials for a lot less and using Reaper's provided FX plug-ins.

Check out,"Loser's" mix challenge using Reaper and some free plug-ins,

http://www.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/ReaperTutorials


https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/15531/L...lendar_Mix.mp3

If the file doesn't play in your browser right click and open in a new window/tab.
Ouch that hurts. That's a good example of what NOT to do. Man that sounds horrible. How old is that? I'm scared ... let me redo that ...
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
Ouch that hurts. That's a good example of what NOT to do. Man that sounds horrible. How old is that? I'm scared ... let me redo that ...
I get really good results using the stock plugs in Reaper....not pro ...but it ain't bad that is for sure !!

DB
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
Ouch that hurts. That's a good example of what NOT to do. Man that sounds horrible. How old is that? I'm scared ... let me redo that ...
Don't put yourself down.It's way better than some stuff I've heard and it helped me.By looking how other people work it helps find one's own way of doing things so it still has value IMHO and thank you for posting it.
Also it's natural to listen back to things done previously after a long time and criticize them as all our perspective changes as we hopefully improve.
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Old 02-05-2009, 01:30 PM   #20
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HarBal? Um, ReaFIR is built in and done does the same thing. Set to EQ mode and reduced artifacts (makes it linear phase). Set the FFT to 8192 ( to be the exact same as Harbal) or even higher to be even MORE accurate than HAR Bal. If you want an averaged spectral curve, go download SPAN from Voxengo. You want minimum phase, use ReaEQ. Want general compression or expansion, use ReaComp. Want multiband comp, ReaXComp (which is ridiculously good) or ReaFIR. Its in there.

Last edited by Bubbagump; 02-05-2009 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheppola View Post
Don't put yourself down.It's way better than some stuff I've heard and it helped me.By looking how other people work it helps find one's own way of doing things so it still has value IMHO and thank you for posting it.
Also it's natural to listen back to things done previously after a long time and criticize them as all our perspective changes as we hopefully improve.
But it sounds so overcompressed, bumping as hell and way to bassy.
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbagump View Post
Want general compression or expansion, use ReaComp.
There's no expansion mode in ReaComp yet.
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Old 02-05-2009, 03:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbagump View Post
Set to EQ mode and reduced artifacts (makes it linear phase).
Exactly the other way round AFAIK and AFAICT.
Turning on the reduce artifacts will introduce phase.
You can even test this:
Put the JS:FFT_noise_generator on a track (set its fft to 1024 otherwise the JS:gfxanalyzer will act up). Then put ReaFIR on that same track right behind the FFT_noise_generator, put JS:gfxanalyzer after it. Mute the master.
Now compare the output of the JS:gfxanalyzer (set FFT size to 1024 and set window to rectangular) (purple = phase; yellow is magnitude). See how turning on the reduce artifacts makes it WAY more inefficient, and see how the phase line gets a little bump (compared to the normal mode)?

You could also feed a dirac through it. For normal mode the IR will be symmetrical = linear phase, but for reduced artifact mode it will only be the right half of the original impulse = unsymmetrical = non-linear phase.

EDIT:

Last edited by LOSER; 02-05-2009 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 02-05-2009, 05:13 PM   #24
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even if you don't want ozone their mastering guide is very good
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:19 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
There's no expansion mode in ReaComp yet.
Turn up the dry level in ReaComp and there is.


Loser, from the Wiki:

"Reduce artifacts (less effective): by default ReaFIR operates in a non-linear FFT-based filtering fashion. The downside is that in certain instances the filter can introduce aliasing artifacts, in exchange for extremely high filtering effectiveness. If you check this box, ReaFIR will operate as a FIR filter, meaning it will be limited in its effectiveness by the length of the filter, but will respond linearly and without artifacts."

Am I misunderstanding this or is it wrong?
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:51 AM   #26
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Turn up the dry level in ReaComp and there is.
Not really. A expander in general is much more complex. Turning up the dry signal will give you parallel compression (aka New York compression): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_compression

Versus a expander actually increases the dynamic range of a signal. You can emulated that by simple adding dry signal to the compressed signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbagump View Post
Loser, from the Wiki:

"Reduce artifacts (less effective): by default ReaFIR operates in a non-linear FFT-based filtering fashion. The downside is that in certain instances the filter can introduce aliasing artifacts, in exchange for extremely high filtering effectiveness. If you check this box, ReaFIR will operate as a FIR filter, meaning it will be limited in its effectiveness by the length of the filter, but will respond linearly and without artifacts."

Am I misunderstanding this or is it wrong?
Non-linear and linear can mean a whole lot of things. Maybe ReaFIR uses a non-(time)-linear FFT implementation, etc .. maybe Justin can put some light on what that part of the wiki is supposed to mean (since he wrote it).
But from my knowledge of signals and systems in DSP the condition for linear phase is that the IR must be symmetrical:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.dspguru.com/info/faqs/fir/props.htm
2.1.3 What is the condition for linear phase?

FIR filters are usually designed to be linear-phase (but they don't have to be.) A FIR filter is linear-phase if (and only if) its coefficients are symmetrical around the center coefficient, that is, the first coefficient is the same as the last; the second is the same as the next-to-last, etc. (A linear-phase FIR filter having an odd number of coefficients will have a single coefficient in the center which has no mate.)
Since feeding a dirac (/delta) impulse into a system generally will give you it's impulse response, which (for a FIR filter) is are equally to the coefficients, so when the IR is not symmetrically, it is not linear phase. Since ReaFIR without reduce artifacts has a symmetrical IR it's linear phase and with reduce artifacts it's unsymmetrical, hence not linear phase.
I might be wrong, but even measuring the input vs the output says that without it's linear phase and with it's not.

Last edited by LOSER; 02-06-2009 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:55 AM   #27
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ReaFIR... so the wiki is a bit misleading to the layman. Sigh.... well, at least it is linear phase. Perhaps a relableing of things are in order.

As for expansion, I learned something new... using the wrong term.
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