Old 02-25-2013, 10:12 AM   #1
kmaaj
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Default Need a natural sounding reverb plugin

Context is solo classical guitar. Original plan was to record in a cathedral, but that plan hs been nixed due to my erratic work schedule. I've been fighting with Ableton for the past few weeks simply because it came with my interface and it had a nice stock reverb.

There is a cathedral in my town that is cavernous, but with hardly any glass or marble surfaces, its mostly wood and plaster. So the reverb decay is very smooth and even with no zingy overtones. I'm trying to simulate that reverb. I've been able to come close, but not quite, with Ableton's stock reverb, and with Ambience VST. Nothing I tried in reaverb came close, and since I am a rank newbie, it's likely I don't understand how to tweak the settings.

Any thoughts on tweaking reaverb, or using any other available plugins to get closer to the sound I described?

Last edited by kmaaj; 02-25-2013 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:13 AM   #2
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Try long predelay times above 80ms. And reverb time around 3-5 sec. Try to play with the high frequencies (3-6db shelf up or down @ ~ 12kHz or lower).

Check http://soundfactorywomb.com/free-plugins you find a list of reverb plugins I liked for free.

And look for impulse responses from cathedrals/churches: http://fokkie.home.xs4all.nl/IR.htm
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:18 AM   #3
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I find the Valhalla Vintage Verb and Valhalla Room, to both be very good reverbs.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:07 PM   #4
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I like some of the free Bricasti reverb impulses.

Try setting up a reverb send with an EQ before the reverb, maybe some delay, the reverb itself, and another EQ on the end.

And post what you did and a recording if you can! Always glad to hear stuff that works for somebody.
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Old 02-25-2013, 04:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dea-man View Post
I find the Valhalla Vintage Verb and Valhalla Room, to both be very good reverbs.

2nd Dea-Man.

...and there are nice presets and blog articles on the Valhalla site to help you learn how to tweak.

Valhalla plugs are lots of bang for buck.


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Old 02-25-2013, 04:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dea-man View Post
I find the Valhalla Vintage Verb and Valhalla Room, to both be very good reverbs.
I'll third that! Also check out Valhalla's Shimmer - Awesome!
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:19 PM   #7
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Try compressing the signal before it hits the reverb (easy with Reaper's routing), rolling off the highs of the verb, and keeping the decay under 1 second. You can get a rich small to medium room sound this way. There's no way I've ever found to turn a small room guitar recording (short decay) into a large room recording (super long decay) without sounding artificial.

Best of luck with it.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith-Little View Post
I'll third that! Also check out Valhalla's Shimmer - Awesome!
It's true, every one of the Valhalla plugs are a ton of fun to play with!

Besides the ones already mentioned above, don't forget Valhalla FreqEcho, and Valhalla UberMod.

All spectacular!
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:16 PM   #9
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I prefer convolution reverbs for this (and most) kind of application. I use Christian Knufinke's wonderful SIR2 reverb and it includes an impulse response from a real Church. I'm sure other reverbs would have similar responses. If you find a free impulse, you can use it with Reaper's ReaVerb, although I really don't like it personally.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:19 PM   #10
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Can one ever, have too many reverbs?

It would be fun to start a thread entitled, "How many different reverbs do you own?" or, "How many different plug ins are on your current work machine?"
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pattste View Post
I prefer convolution reverbs for this
Based on the OPs description of the job at hand I agree. IMHO this is another one of those questions where "I think this reverb sounds really cool" isn't usually the best answer. It needs to sound like a real "space".
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pattste View Post
I prefer convolution reverbs for this (and most) kind of application. I use Christian Knufinke's wonderful SIR2 reverb and it includes an impulse response from a real Church. I'm sure other reverbs would have similar responses. If you find a free impulse, you can use it with Reaper's ReaVerb, although I really don't like it personally.
Thanks, pattste!

Do you know Frank Marino? He is the one that first suggested Reaper to me. His real life persona is MUCH broader than his commonly perceived stereotype.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pattste View Post
I prefer convolution reverbs for this (and most) kind of application. I use Christian Knufinke's wonderful SIR2 reverb and it includes an impulse response from a real Church.
This...

And I like Breverb 2 over the Valhalla stuff, but to each his own!
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:25 AM   #14
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Valhalla Room and VintageVerb aren't just "fx" reverbs, they are good for more realistic and subtle ambiences too, IMHO. After I got those I haven't used bricasti impulses (let alone any other reverb impulses) once. Perhaps if I'd be doing sound design, I could use some real space impulses for authencitiy but for music and instruments I prefer VR and VVV.

But of course many impulses and convolution verbs are free so those bricasti impulses are great starting point. And my personal tastes are just that, personal. They might not work for you. I just thought I'd share them
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:50 AM   #15
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For convolution, I'm not sure if Reverberate was mentioned. You can really craft the reverb tail as I recall, doing things like adding modulation to improve IR's which often seem to sound sterile or "lifeless" to me on their own.

I have pretty much ditched that whole approach (of sifting through millions of IR's, etc) after getting Valhalla Room. It's pretty easy to learn to tweak and there are a lot of good presets for starting points.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:12 AM   #16
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If you have time, you could go to record impulse response in that church and then load it in this plugin.
http://www.knufinke.de/sir/sir1.php
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northern View Post
If you have time, you could go to record impulse response in that church and then load it in this plugin.
http://www.knufinke.de/sir/sir1.php
I am bedside with my wife post surgery in a hospital with 14" of snow surrounding us,so I have had little better to do than to look at plug ins and ir's.;-)

I have already downloaded that plugin and have scoured the web for ir's. crash course in convolution reverb. I don't know how the priest would feel about a starter pistol in his cathedral, but I could ask.

Last edited by kmaaj; 02-28-2013 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:34 AM   #18
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I've played around with sir1 and a really nice sounding IR .wav, big improvement in the type of reverb I am hoping for. Unfortunately, when I was trying to tweak the parameters in real time to dial in the ideal balance, Reaper and/or the plugin locked up, the plugin gave dozens of error messages, and I had to stop the process to free it up. Before I try to work with it again, I'll learn how to do a screenshot and I'll post it here if it happens again.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:29 PM   #19
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As an alternative to SIR, there's also some versions of Reverberate (LE as in free, or CM as Computer Music magazine only). IMO more tweakable and newer/better algorithms.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
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As an alternative to SIR, there's also some versions of Reverberate (LE as in free, or CM as Computer Music magazine only). IMO more tweakable and newer/better algorithms.
So far I am liking that one better than any. Thanks.
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