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04-11-2012, 02:14 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minneaplis
Posts: 3,317
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Also, if anyone has any gear they'd like to donate to a good cause let me know! The cause would be to be able to host free live music events at the Tilsner Artist Cooperative.
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04-11-2012, 03:44 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
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These are fine, the builtin compressor is actually useful. You'll want some reverb/delay, so maybe get the MG124cx with integrated effects instead?
If you have a bit more money to spend, get the MG166cx - cheaper and more channels than the Soundcraft you linked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
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I'm skeptical of Behringer power amps - search for a cheap used one, if you don't need the DSP.
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Originally Posted by pixeltarian
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Stay away from cheap speakers. If there's one component you should spend a decent amount of money on, it's speakers. Otherwise - buy used.
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Originally Posted by pixeltarian
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Can't comment on those. Some cheap monitors are actually fine if you don't expect too much from them.
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Originally Posted by pixeltarian
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Can't comment on those.
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Originally Posted by pixeltarian
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Try them. Send them back if you don't like them. The knock-offs I've tried weren't anywhere as good as the originals, but that's just my opinion, man.
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Originally Posted by pixeltarian
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Every cheap mic stand we ever had broke or developed problems within a year.
Cables - could be cheaper to buy a roll of cable and decent plugs and solder them yourself.
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Originally Posted by pixeltarian
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No idea. I've never had a snake myself, but I'm alway skeptical of the flimsy cables and plugs on the mixer end. Might be wise not to skimp on this one.
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04-11-2012, 06:01 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
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I don't know about your planned venues, but 50 ft (== 15 m) is a really short run. Get at least 100 ft. Seriously. ,)
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04-11-2012, 06:11 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minneaplis
Posts: 3,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas Ve
I don't know about your planned venues, but 50 ft (== 15 m) is a really short run. Get at least 100 ft. Seriously. ,)
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50 is more than enough for the venue.
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04-11-2012, 08:04 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,157
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check your local craigslist. I see full PA's come up often down here in Dallas:
Yours I assume:
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/msa/
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04-11-2012, 10:13 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,371
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Get 4 Mackie thumps, 12 or 15 inch powered for less than $300 each new, and use a reaper as your console. No snake required, leave the daw at the side of the stage and vnc in with a laptop from out front.
There is a thread here someplace with my FOH mixrack setup.
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04-11-2012, 05:12 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minneaplis
Posts: 3,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Hamm
Get 4 Mackie thumps, 12 or 15 inch powered for less than $300 each new, and use a reaper as your console. No snake required, leave the daw at the side of the stage and vnc in with a laptop from out front.
There is a thread here someplace with my FOH mixrack setup.
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you're talking about $1,200+ for just the speakers. Then I'd have to get mics, cables stands, an audio interface, and desktop computer, and a laptop computer.
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04-12-2012, 04:44 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
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Arrrgh no. This is the worst crap you can buy, and that's not meant to be condescending or sound elitist.
I had a pair of the Kustom KSC10. It's the cheapest woofer ever combined with a crappy piezo tweeter in a cardboard box. Yes, it's not even made of wood or particle board, it's made of something resembling pressed cardboard. They're unable to cope even with basic monitoring duties.
The Gemini won't be better. The one in the photo doesn't even have the label on straight. What does that tell you about their QC?
Buy used!
The Behringer power mixer does look decent for your budget.
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04-12-2012, 04:55 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minneaplis
Posts: 3,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oerk
Arrrgh no. This is the worst crap you can buy, and that's not meant to be condescending or sound elitist.
I had a pair of the Kustom KSC10. It's the cheapest woofer ever combined with a crappy piezo tweeter in a cardboard box. Yes, it's not even made of wood or particle board, it's made of something resembling pressed cardboard. They're unable to cope even with basic monitoring duties.
The Gemini won't be better. The one in the photo doesn't even have the label on straight. What does that tell you about their QC?
Buy used!
The Behringer power mixer does look decent for your budget.
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yeah... I know. I'd LOVE to get good speakers. if I had any extra money anywhere i'd put it into the speakers, but the budget is just too low. basically it's such a low budget that it might not even happen. I would just really love to get a PA for events here in the artist co-op where I live. My first config was 1,300$ and the reaction was like "are you out of your mind?!"
maybe there's some 12" DIY house speaker plans that I could tackle with a woodworking friend that lives in the building.
Last edited by pixeltarian; 04-12-2012 at 05:22 AM.
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04-12-2012, 06:08 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minneaplis
Posts: 3,317
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shoot now I'm speaker shopping and feel nearly like I want to sell my API a2d and get a pair of these puppies for myself:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K10
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04-12-2012, 06:09 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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whatever you do, put em on stands.
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04-12-2012, 06:29 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minneaplis
Posts: 3,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
whatever you do, put em on stands.
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but of course. I already have 3 sets of speaker stands.
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04-12-2012, 10:52 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
yeah... I know. I'd LOVE to get good speakers. if I had any extra money anywhere i'd put it into the speakers, but the budget is just too low. basically it's such a low budget that it might not even happen. I would just really love to get a PA for events here in the artist co-op where I live. My first config was 1,300$ and the reaction was like "are you out of your mind?!"
maybe there's some 12" DIY house speaker plans that I could tackle with a woodworking friend that lives in the building.
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I completely understand, but the ones you linked won't work for anything. Maybe buy only two (decent) speakers at first and live without monitors. Or use one for monitoring and the other for FOH. Downgrade to a cheaper power mixer (one of the Yamaha vertical ones, for instance).
DIY speakers in this price range are neiter cheaper or better than the mass produced stuff, unfortunately.
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04-12-2012, 05:38 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minneaplis
Posts: 3,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oerk
I completely understand, but the ones you linked won't work for anything. Maybe buy only two (decent) speakers at first and live without monitors. Or use one for monitoring and the other for FOH. Downgrade to a cheaper power mixer (one of the Yamaha vertical ones, for instance).
DIY speakers in this price range are neiter cheaper or better than the mass produced stuff, unfortunately.
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what are some good speakers that could fit in an entire PA package that has to cost less than $900 including mics, stands and cables?
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04-12-2012, 10:32 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,924
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Gotta say the cheapest rig I take on the road (4k horn-loaded Logic Systems rig with 4-way monitors, 30m snake and 24-channel desk) probably cost me equivalent of $15-20,000.
I know I've got to work with it and rely on it, but anything else will feel like it won't do the job. What kind of music you putting through this? Get a live SE (a proper one) on your side to help you. There's some sensible advice above, basically buying rubbish is a waste of money because you'll have to buy it again and again.
And have a responsible person in charge of it -a PA isn't an item, it's a sum of o lot of items that get abused, broken, stolen, misplaced, etc. Don't buy mic stands you can't get spares for. Cheap mics will just cause feedback. Cheap speakers, well, just don't -there is no point. Make your own cables and use neutrik. Get a proper live SE to help you..!
>
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04-13-2012, 02:39 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minneaplis
Posts: 3,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine
Gotta say the cheapest rig I take on the road (4k horn-loaded Logic Systems rig with 4-way monitors, 30m snake and 24-channel desk) probably cost me equivalent of $15-20,000.
I know I've got to work with it and rely on it, but anything else will feel like it won't do the job. What kind of music you putting through this? Get a live SE (a proper one) on your side to help you. There's some sensible advice above, basically buying rubbish is a waste of money because you'll have to buy it again and again.
And have a responsible person in charge of it -a PA isn't an item, it's a sum of o lot of items that get abused, broken, stolen, misplaced, etc. Don't buy mic stands you can't get spares for. Cheap mics will just cause feedback. Cheap speakers, well, just don't -there is no point. Make your own cables and use neutrik. Get a proper live SE to help you..!
>
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I don't really need a 'proper live sound engineer'. I know what I'd get if I had a budget of $15,000. My 4 years in audio school (if nothing else) taught me how to configure a PA system. This rig is not going on the road. It's for very small bands (no drums) and for public speaking engagements.
The PA would be locked away so no one can use but members of the audio committee (we have committees for things here at the co-op). The room we've been using is roughly 30x34 feet so does not need to be a large PA.
The point of this thread was not "how do I build a PA on an unlimited budget?" ...I could do that in my sleep and I'm sure I even do configure dream PAs sometimes. The point is "I have nearly no budget. how can I get a PA anyway?"
even now one person for the co-op is wondering why we don't just get a rolling PA (like a fender passport). I wanted to vomit. I don't think I hate anything more than those portable systems on wheels.
If I feel ambitious, I'll do a more proper one later, but here's a rough diagram of what the space looks like:
Last edited by pixeltarian; 04-13-2012 at 02:55 PM.
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04-13-2012, 03:10 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whales, UK
Posts: 6,009
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on a similarly small budget when i wanted a verstile PA i plumped for a Sub & Sat system - not heard such as option mentioned so throwing it out there..
800rms total so its pretty capable.
since the sat speakers are 150w (8" driver) each, with a seperate small ish amp for example i have a neat portable 300w rms system, and if need to go bigger, i can roll out the 500w sub and main amp, and take things up to 800.
sub can hide in the corner out of the way too, with smaller less unwieldy speakers on stands.
that flexibility appealled, also you can vary sub level crossover point/phase so you got tweakability, gig/room dependant. sounds pretty good, though rarely used it yet.
i seperated the amp from the huge sub enclosure recently, got a smaller sub enclosure and made the whole setup much more portable since the sub& in one box was big and weighed more than a small car. now v easy.
similar type systems now go around £500 /$800 new i think , but if i found myself in minneapolis id flog you mine for <$500...
my purchase was discontinued, one here along same lines, bit less juice: http://www.cybermarket.co.uk/shop/pu...ve-722800.html
maybe having 3 or 4 kit pieces seems more hassle to you than 2 powered speakers, but i see the flexibility as a boon and non-intrusive main speakers a benefit.
Last edited by BenK-msx; 04-13-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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04-14-2012, 02:33 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minneaplis
Posts: 3,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenK-msx
on a similarly small budget when i wanted a verstile PA i plumped for a Sub & Sat system - not heard such as option mentioned so throwing it out there..
800rms total so its pretty capable.
since the sat speakers are 150w (8" driver) each, with a seperate small ish amp for example i have a neat portable 300w rms system, and if need to go bigger, i can roll out the 500w sub and main amp, and take things up to 800.
sub can hide in the corner out of the way too, with smaller less unwieldy speakers on stands.
that flexibility appealled, also you can vary sub level crossover point/phase so you got tweakability, gig/room dependant. sounds pretty good, though rarely used it yet.
i seperated the amp from the huge sub enclosure recently, got a smaller sub enclosure and made the whole setup much more portable since the sub& in one box was big and weighed more than a small car. now v easy.
similar type systems now go around £500 /$800 new i think , but if i found myself in minneapolis id flog you mine for <$500...
my purchase was discontinued, one here along same lines, bit less juice: http://www.cybermarket.co.uk/shop/pu...ve-722800.html
maybe having 3 or 4 kit pieces seems more hassle to you than 2 powered speakers, but i see the flexibility as a boon and non-intrusive main speakers a benefit.
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We don't have that brand here in the states. I havent seen a 2 speakers, stands, sub combo in my search either...
To those saying to "spend as much as you can on speakers" - how about a few suggestions. is QSC as good as it gets for $700ish per speaker?
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04-14-2012, 02:59 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Posts: 235
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04-14-2012, 05:37 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
you're talking about $1,200+ for just the speakers. Then I'd have to get mics, cables stands, an audio interface, and desktop computer, and a laptop computer.
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They are powered, so that takes care of the speakers and amps. You can also plug a single mic into them for spoken word, without a mixer at all.
If $1200 is over budget, just get 2 and set them up further back for acts that need to hear them selves.
There are lots of cheap mixers you can get with low channel count under $300.
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04-14-2012, 06:10 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whales, UK
Posts: 6,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
We don't have that brand here in the states. I havent seen a 2 speakers, stands, sub combo in my search either...
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ah that was just an example of the type of thing - but heres a peavey available to you dollar users..
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item-...m_medium=feed&
(scratched one for $650.. )
gotta work on your googling squire!
may not be for you, but is an option on a budget.
Last edited by BenK-msx; 04-14-2012 at 06:22 AM.
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04-14-2012, 01:23 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,371
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Just reading back and taking note of all of the budget concerns. Never seen an artist's co-op so I assume that you have a theatre or some sort in the community? Why not just hold a fund raiser / show to raise the funds for something that will work rather than spending from what little resources that you do have for something that is less than adequate?
Realistically, you need about $1500 - $2000 to get something that will be suitable, considering you require everything. If I was on a committee and someone was looking to fund a project promising to do so on a dirt floor budget, I likely would not authorize the funding either. Try asking them to match you $1000 against funds you raise and see what comes of it. You never know, you might find that other options pop up when you try this, like getting gear donated from other non profits or municipal sources.
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04-22-2012, 01:41 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 11
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DIY Speakers:
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/
Probably gets you 2 or 3 price brackets above where you could afford to be if you buy ready made.
JACK10 would suit your needs.
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04-23-2012, 12:53 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: In your compressor, making coffee.
Posts: 1,165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamM
DIY Speakers:
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/
Probably gets you 2 or 3 price brackets above where you could afford to be if you buy ready made.
JACK10 would suit your needs.
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Of course, this assumes he has access to the power tools required to build the cabinets.
And he would still need amps, mics, etc.
This isn't anything against BFM stuff; in fact, I plan to build a few myself soon.
But there are times when DIY is the right choice, and times when it isn't. This isn't one of those times, IMO.
__________________
To a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. - yep
There are various ways to skin a cat :D - EvilDragon
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04-23-2012, 11:13 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minneaplis
Posts: 3,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuraMorte
Of course, this assumes he has access to the power tools required to build the cabinets.
And he would still need amps, mics, etc.
This isn't anything against BFM stuff; in fact, I plan to build a few myself soon.
But there are times when DIY is the right choice, and times when it isn't. This isn't one of those times, IMO.
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hmm...
I have everything but a nice table saw. I have a crappy table saw that doesn't cut very straight. I'm just not sure they would pay me to make them. They might pay for the materials. I'd have to ponder that a bit.
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04-24-2012, 09:17 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: In your compressor, making coffee.
Posts: 1,165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
hmm...
I have everything but a nice table saw. I have a crappy table saw that doesn't cut very straight. I'm just not sure they would pay me to make them. They might pay for the materials. I'd have to ponder that a bit.
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If you're willing to put in the work for free to make them, do it.
I've been doing a ton of reading up about them, and the only negative thing people say about them is basically "you can't throw 1000 Watts at them like pro speakers".
There are a lot of very satisfied users, and a few that weren't completely satisfied. The problem with unsatisfied diyers is, did they follow the plans accurately and completely? If not, their opinion is invalid, because you can't throw things together and expect great results. Results take work.
So if you're willing to put the work in, do it, and tell us how it turns out.
__________________
To a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. - yep
There are various ways to skin a cat :D - EvilDragon
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