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03-21-2011, 10:21 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 2,110
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This is great news. Please implement this. For broadcast this sort of thing is becoming essential for good reason. It's also incredibly useful for music. I love the discussion at the DUC (rare for me to say that).
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03-21-2011, 10:38 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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I've already made myself a batch file to scan single files.
Grab the executables here: http://www-public.tu-bs.de:8080/%7Ey...ibebur128.html
and save this to a batch file. Edit the path to the executable accordingly.
Code:
@echo off
"path to executable\r128-ffmpeg.exe" %1
pause
Drop anything FFMPeg can read on to the batch file and you get an LUFS value for the file. There are options for also display the loudness range and true peak value of the file.
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03-22-2011, 03:16 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: in a hotel room near you
Posts: 1,175
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That's a big step forwards for many users!
And very important.
Could someone contact the devs to suggest Reaper has the 'EBU mode' meter on the master.
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03-22-2011, 10:03 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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There are some products that enable logging and provide a decent meter, but why not just have this open standard as an option for the master RMS-type meter.
Should we put this in an FR already ? Maybe it's dead easy to do for v4 and we should mention this in the pre-release forum.
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03-22-2011, 10:31 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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This looks great! would love to see it in Reaper!
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03-22-2011, 11:42 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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absolutely
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03-23-2011, 01:11 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 2,110
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Thanks for the video link. That webinar really does a great job of explaining the problem and the proposed solution.
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04-04-2011, 02:03 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: in a hotel room near you
Posts: 1,175
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all you need is lufs (as the man said in the loudness video)
LUFS people:
A new freeware lufs meter vst plugin is available --
https://www.audiocation.de/plugin
and go to 'ac-r128'
found this on kvr the other day thought it might be useful.
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03-16-2012, 06:34 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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I think it would be nice to also have that in the Render options (target file volume = EBU R128).
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03-16-2012, 11:30 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Neat. That could be a nice post processing option.
A 64-bit double-float intermediate format, a loudness normalization pass with an optional limiter for -1dBTP conformation, and a status report on how much gain was applied.
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03-16-2012, 12:07 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
I think it would be nice to also have that in the Render options (target file volume = EBU R128).
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Oh, definitely agree!
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03-16-2012, 01:39 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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double ditto!
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03-20-2012, 07:44 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
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This one is outdated. Foobar2000 1.1.11 ships with it by default.
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06-28-2012, 12:09 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2
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LUFS Meter, EBU R128 compliant loudness metering
You might also be interested in my new LUFS Meter. Its a VST- and AU plugin (32bit and 64bit). Mac only, but I'm already working on a PC version. Open source, released under the GPLv2 license.
Its in an early development state (alpha), please report bugs and feature requests.
http://www.klangfreund.com/lufsmeter/
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06-28-2012, 12:18 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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^ Great stuff, will provide feedback
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07-06-2012, 10:07 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2
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The LUFS Meter is now also available as VST plugin for Windows, 32 and 64 bit.
http://www.klangfreund.com/lufsmeter/
On my system (MacBookPro 2.2GHz i7), it is quite ressource friendly (~1.5 % CPU usage).
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07-07-2012, 04:47 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,763
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very cool. for multiple tracks, it'd still be nice to have native support on the DAW meters
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07-07-2012, 03:16 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Nice. I'll try it out.
Thanks for sharing.
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07-07-2012, 04:37 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,290
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Anyone want to take a stab at......
...explaining in a very, very simple manner:
1. What this is for?
2. How to use it in Reaper?
3. What one will gain, on a practical level, by using it?
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07-07-2012, 06:54 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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It's a metering plugin available in VST or Audio Units format.
I generally place this on the master and sometimes check it to know what general idea of levels I have at the moment.
It's an extra bit of metering that uses the most recent metering standard, which is Loudness metering, using the ITU-R BS.1770-2 standard, which is also used by the EBU R128 recommendation.
You can read a little more about this subject, and watch videos about it here: http://tech.ebu.ch/loudness
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07-07-2012, 07:46 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,290
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Dear Airon -
Excellent! Thank you.
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07-07-2012, 07:50 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,290
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Another question.
Does this measurement enable ones work to be of equal loudness to commercially released radio and CD's, or commercial broadcast specs?
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07-08-2012, 05:09 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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No, many CDs are still mastered to have no or very little dynamic range.
When loudness normalized, those tracks are no louder than one with a great dynamic range, but they sound small and for me personally, uninteresting.
You might be interested to know that loudness normalization is part of ITunes and thus iPods. There that loudness normalization is called Sound Check. It's actually quite helpful so you usually do not have to adjust the volume between tracks. It is however, not on by default. The target loudness level is around -16.7 LUFS according to a member of the PLOUD group of the EBU.
Spotify, the streaming music service on the other hand has loudness normalization on by default. I don't know what its reference loudness level is, but it works well. More dynamic tracks live well next to the ones without dynamics.
Broadcast material (TV so far) is now mixed to a target loudness level of -23 LUFS (almost everyone) or -24 LKFS(old A/85 standard - US only). LUFS = LKFS if measured as momentary or short-term. For integrated loudness measurement (over entire song or program), the EBU R128/ITU-R BS.1770-2 standards use a series of gates to screen out some loudness levels.
You can effectively measure this stuff offline with the Replaygain scanner of Foobar2000 (.org). It uses a reference loudness level of -18 LUFS. There's a nice Wikipedia article on Replaygain. I recommend you read that too.
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07-11-2012, 01:03 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 327
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thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
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07-11-2012, 02:54 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,231
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It would be so incredibly nice to have this implementeed in the Reaper metering. Crossing my fingers!
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07-11-2012, 05:23 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,290
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Am I correct ?
This is a tool to more accurately measure your master track level?
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07-26-2012, 01:35 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 327
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the klangfruend one is awesome! I wish it went higher than -14
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07-27-2012, 05:39 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere Between 120 and 150 BPM
Posts: 7,968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plush2
Thanks for the video link. That webinar really does a great job of explaining the problem and the proposed solution.
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Yes it does and thanks for the links.
I always have had trouble using virtual instruments mixed with hardware live, so I have neded up using Expanders and Limiters to tame everything, evern used a Mastering Tool called the Optimaster, sidechained the strongest synth into COmpressors where the less powerful synths can control the strength of these Analog Hardware beasts, yet still, I still can't seem to get the levels at -6db where I prefer it without a Brickwall Limiter, which really changes the sounds.
Since I record the same way, this would be very useful in Reaper.
I actually think this was so much easier when it was all hardware, or all virtual, but the hybrid rigs are difficult to control...
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07-27-2012, 06:40 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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Is this meter useful for comparing my pop rock mixes to commercial mixes for loudness ?
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07-27-2012, 06:50 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,290
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Over my head?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
Is this meter useful for comparing my pop rock mixes to commercial mixes for loudness ?
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I can't quite make out "exactly" what is the advantage of having this meter.
I've followed the links, read the material but, it's just out of reach of my understanding.
Can someone put it into one simple sentence what this does, and why it's better or preferred, over any other meter, or Reapers stock meters?
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07-28-2012, 02:16 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Go and get Foobar2000, an audio player with a loudness scanner that uses the EBU R128/ITU-R BS.1770-2 standard for determining the loudness of a track with its replaygain scanner.
http://foobar2000.org
Throw in your commercial mix and your rock mix. Select them both, right-click on them and do a per-track replaygain scan. Agree to tag the files.
Now play them back to back. Overall they will be of similar if not equal loudness. The replaygain tag value will in fact tell you how loud the tracks are in relation to the replaygain-reference loudness level of -18 LUFS(broadcast uses a target of -23 LUFS for various reasons).
You can now compare sound, instead of loudness.
I myself use a commandline scanner that I call up as an external editor in Reaper. It gives me a shell window popup that reports the loudness level of the file, the loudness range (LRA) and truepeak measurement.
I've uploaded the Windows binaries to Mediafire(just 4 MB each).
v0.40 Win32 SSE2
v0.40 Win64
Then you just make a small batch file script like this, and call it up as an external editor in Reaper. Presto, you have a loudness scanner in Reaper. Of course we want native functionality and more in the actual request(see link in my sig).
Code:
@echo off
w:\hatever path to the executable\r128-scanner.exe -p dbtp -l %1
pause
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07-29-2012, 05:54 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 327
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Oh man, this would have saved my ass yesterday!!!
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07-29-2012, 06:10 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 327
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what extension do I end the file with?
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07-29-2012, 07:50 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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The extension field in the External Editors section is empty. It can take almost any audio file you throw at it, because it too uses FFMPEG to decode the audio. It can even scan some video files.
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11-11-2012, 09:02 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 74
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Does foobar2000's built-in ReplayGain scanner use BS-1770-3 (latest version) for measurement of integrated loudness and (true) peak?
If I change the "Target MP3 alteration volume level (dB)" in foobar2000's preferences from the default of 89 to 89+X, is the target integrated loudness changed from -18 LUFS to -18+X LUFS?
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11-11-2012, 10:34 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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1770-3, I don't know. They build their scanner on the libebur128 library, which has an MIT license, so maybe they can update it themselves.
I'm not sure they do Truepeak scanning with their replaygain scanner, but only non-oversampled peaks.
I looked at the new document, and I don't know what's changed actually. Maybe some coefficients for the filters. Dunno.
Last edited by airon; 11-11-2012 at 10:43 AM.
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05-06-2015, 08:06 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castanuelas
Does foobar2000's built-in ReplayGain scanner use BS-1770-3 (latest version) for measurement of integrated loudness and (true) peak?
If I change the "Target MP3 alteration volume level (dB)" in foobar2000's preferences from the default of 89 to 89+X, is the target integrated loudness changed from -18 LUFS to -18+X LUFS?
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I think they don't do True peak but other wise it's BS-1770-3 just with the ReplayGain target value of -18LUFS. If you need -23LUFS you have to set foobar's preamp to -5dB for Replaygain files.
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05-06-2015, 01:45 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,290
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It's almost like we're falling in LUFS.......
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