Old 04-24-2012, 07:00 AM   #1
RoelD
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Default Media Explorer - tempo detection

Hi all,

Can the tempo/BPM detection in the Media Explorer be used with full length songs or is it just meant to be used with smaller (drum)loops, samples, …?

When I use it with long audio files, most of the time the detected tempo is faster (the detected BPM is +/- 20% higher than the real tempo of the song).

thanks,
Roel
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:17 AM   #2
buckman
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Check out my Post "DJ Mixes in Reaper"

I'm asking the same thing in order to do locked beatmixing in Reaper....
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:04 AM   #3
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I think the tempo detection in Media Explorer is based on file length, as to my experience it works best with accurately cut loops.
The problem I see with full length songs is that they are most of the time not accurately cut (ie blank space at the beginning or end of the file) so tempo detection wouldn't work accurately.

Just my guess though...
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:10 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
I think the tempo detection in Media Explorer is based on file length, as to my experience it works best with accurately cut loops.
The problem I see with full length songs is that they are most of the time not accurately cut (ie blank space at the beginning or end of the file) so tempo detection wouldn't work accurately.

Just my guess though...
Yes although, Mixmeister seem to detect all this ok for full tracks.

And Reaper is much better for DJ mixes with its looping, EQ on items, looped tempo match and pitching, - its just the whole track bpm detection.

Even Acid is better at this!
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
Yes although, Mixmeister seem to detect all this ok for full tracks.
So I'm wondering...
How about using Mixmeister for BPM detection and do the rest in Reaper ?

Once you have the original BPM it's just a bit of math...
say:

original tempo = 120
new tempo = 90
item playrate = 90/120 = 0.75
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:23 AM   #6
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Good idea, but you should be able to do all this from within Reaper, from the first imported CD track to the finished beat mapped and matched track..

And besides i'm afraid I don't have Mixmeister but have heard its ok at DJ mixes.

Reaper could (and probably does do all this and more) especially with adding loops at "tempo matched" and can key change on the fly for mashups and re-edits.

Thing is that I set my tempo to 145bpm, import a track that I KNOW is 145bpm; and tempo match is on - the imported track either plays at 40bpm!! or at 200bpm!!
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Last edited by buckman; 04-24-2012 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:09 AM   #7
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I've (again) gone back to Acid Pro 3.0 from 12 years ago (?) for this.. !

This is the 2nd time i've tried Reaper for this task, as its very close, but in the end, Acid Pro just works for this, so its still worth having around even though its embarrassingly old version

Not as comprehensive as Reaper by any means, but the Beatmapper does the job! and is stupidly simple to do DJ mixes and bootlegs.

If only Reaper had a beatmapper or the Tempo detection worked on long tracks/audio files..
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:58 AM   #8
RoelD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
So I'm wondering...
How about using Mixmeister for BPM detection and do the rest in Reaper ?

Once you have the original BPM it's just a bit of math...
say:

original tempo = 120
new tempo = 90
item playrate = 90/120 = 0.75
That's excatly how I beat-align tracks, I know the BPM of every song (approximately, but most BPM counters do a pretty good job: RedSound, Mixmeister Free BPM Analyzer, MixedInKey, Traktor, aufTAKT, ...) and calculate the item's Playback rate based on the project's current tempo.

But, to improve my workflow I'd like:
- Media Explorer: discover the BPM of full length songs automatically and adjust the item's Playback rate to the current project tempo(markers) when inserting the audio file on a track in the arrangement.
- and/or provide a source/target BPM input field in the Item Properties dialog to easily calculate the item Playback rate (check Samplitude's Object Editor). Especially for tight electronic music, a BPM representation is more comprehensible than a percentage/playback rate.

Probably for full length tracks (perhaps with a configurable treshold, eg. > 2 minutes ?) a more complex BPM detection algorithm has to be used but I have the impression that this is not that hard to implement as even a lot of low-end audio applications provide accurate BPM detection.

I don't mind to adjust the items's Playback rate - or BPM manually if it's not 100% accurate. Also for my workflow, I don't need a beatmap/beatgrid system (eg. Ableton Live's warping system) to fixate every beat individually (though I know there a a lot of requests for this feature). I quantize drifting beats "manually" in the arrangement view (tip: check Kenny's latest tutorials for that!).

Roel
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoelD View Post
Probably for full length tracks (perhaps with a configurable treshold, eg. > 2 minutes ?) a more complex BPM detection algorithm has to be used but I have the impression that this is not that hard to implement as even a lot of low-end audio applications provide accurate BPM detection.
I get this same impression, as most basic mix software now has bpm detection like Mixmeister.. so having it with all the other options, within Reaper would be amazing..

Like I said though, as much as I am a fan of Reaper, I found this so much easier in Acid Pro again, with the looping, and Beatmapper..
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