Old 02-05-2015, 12:30 PM   #1
Magicbuss
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Default ProTools 12 blowback

In case you havent heard ProTools is the latest big name audio software to switch to a subscription based model (Sonar was first I believe, Slate is following suit).

Here is an email I received courtesy of Bobby Owsinski's Blog to which I subscribe. Did Protools just cook its own goose? Thoughts on PT, the subscription model and how this may or may not affect Reaper are welcome. I am expecting an influx of PT refugees who have been on the fence and may have been pushed over by this latest news. Anyway you slice it, its an interesting development to say the least.

------------------------------------------------------
Pro Tools 12 was announced at the NAMM show, but not many liked what they heard about. This applies to you even if you're not a Pro Tools user because of the influence it will have on all sectors of the audio software industry.

1. What's so new? In a nutshell, Pro Tools 12 will only be available via subscription. You can either go month to month at $29.95 per month or $299 per year, or get a "perpetual" license that allows you to purchase the software for $899. You also need a subscription for your hardware as well so that the software continues to work with it.

Here's the rub - If you stop paying your monthly subscription, the Pro Tools software will disappear from your computer. And a perpetual license is of little help since you still have to pay $899 per year to get any support or upgrades. Stop paying and the app remains on your computer, but no updates are available to you.

2. Large facilities aren't happy. The major film and television studios and large post houses that all run Pro Tools and Avid picture editors realize that it's going to cost them a lot more money every year to keep their systems running. Imaging if you have 200+ systems and you have to pay big dough every year just to keep working?

Plus there's an issue of putting anything in the cloud, which violates the Marvel standard for protecting film data. Kind of defeats the purpose of being tied to the cloud.

3. Musicians and producers aren't happy. It's going to cost more money per year and you're going to be tied at the hip with Avid closer than ever, which scares a lot of musicians. But most of all, there's no advantage to using Pro Tools 12 because there are no new features except for cloud collaboration, which is of limited use to most users.

4. Avid's not the only one headed to the cloud. Adobe was the pioneer of the subscription model, but this is new to audio. That said Cakewalk Sonar and Slate Digital are going that way too.

5. Will a new alternative emerge? Nuendo once made a lot of headway into the film and video post community until it was bought by Yamaha, who ignored that sector afterwards. It's a very powerful and capable system, and with great third-party IO hardware now widely available, don't be surprised to see Nuendo getting another close look. Of course, if Universal Audio ever bought or came out with a DAW, the discussion would probably be over.

Outlook: There's a lot more to this story than you read above, although there's not enough space to get into it here. However, if you're a Pro Tools user, you're going to see some changes in the next 12 months, either transferring to the subscription model, perhaps Avid backing down on some level to something easier to digest, or having to change to a new DAW app.

If you're not a Pro Tools user, expect your favorite DAW to at least test the subscription waters soon, especially if Avid is successful.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:01 PM   #2
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A lot of people seem to happily run old versions of PT anyway. I'm sure many won't upgrade.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:32 PM   #3
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A lot of people seem to happily run old versions of PT anyway. I'm sure many won't upgrade.
True. The new features are pretty underwhelming frankly. This "Avid everywhere" is a marketing gimmick as far as I'm concerned.

I'm staying with PT10 / 11 for a while longer.

http://www.avidblogs.com/namm-2015-a...ere-for-audio/
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Old 02-05-2015, 02:35 PM   #4
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F**CK AVID !!!
It's time they died !!
They came close a couple of years ago, so now they just got closer !!!

I personnaly quit Pro Tools when they were still owned by Digidesign, and in those days Pro Tools rocked !!
Still not any more...........

Now for me... REAPER ROCKS !!!

Bless....
Fred
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Old 02-05-2015, 02:45 PM   #5
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Thought I thought I'd never say it... Subscription fears are nothing more than thinking one owned something based on a time that no longer exists or losing something they never had.

The net is an infrastructure now like 911 or the power grid or the water system and will be treated accordingly. You simply aren't going to find a time that the internet is down thusly you can't work because.... if something is so widespread and bad that it fails, not being able to launch your software isn't going to be your main concern, trust me. I'm purposely being a little general here because exceptions aren't the rule, thusly using them as justification is simply going to not be justifiable.

Lastly, unless someone wants all life and technology to be and always remain as it was 15 years ago, it isn't possible to not eventually end up with everything in clouds because it becomes way too complex to be managed otherwise. I know that breaks a lot of hearts and those who dream of always using a horse an buggy because you could feed your car but it is what it is.

This (like the email above) has been occurring since they said the arrowhead would soon be replacing sharp sticks and those who thought wood was better than rock because you could grow it yourself still exist.
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:15 PM   #6
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hopefully IKEA will not go subscription ... they would loose a customer.

ok, things are changing, all the time, everywhere. that cloud-thing is one thing. that subscription thing is another. Avid will see, Slate will see, Sonar will see. I personally take subscription plugins or DAWs not into consideration.

so, it doesnt interest that much. I think Avid will go down in the long run, as will all the subscription-things. its a fashion thing and maybe some delusional bookkeppers think that it would be a splendid idea to go subscription. I personally think that they are delusional. will not work out.

I bet ... 5€ that in 10 years Avid isnt around anymore. and Slate plugs are completely overrated. wouldnt use them as freeware, let alone pay every month.
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:18 PM   #7
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Thought I thought I'd never say it... Subscription fears are nothing more than thinking one owned something based on a time that no longer exists or losing something they never had.

The net is an infrastructure now like 911 or the power grid or the water system and will be treated accordingly. You simply aren't going to find a time that the internet is down thusly you can't work because.... if something is so widespread and bad that it fails, not being able to launch your software isn't going to be your main concern, trust me. I'm purposely being a little general here because exceptions aren't the rule, thusly using them as justification is simply going to not be justifiable.

Lastly, unless someone wants all life and technology to be and always remain as it was 15 years ago, it isn't possible to not eventually end up with everything in clouds because it becomes way too complex to be managed otherwise. I know that breaks a lot of hearts and those who dream of always using a horse an buggy because you could feed your car but it is what it is.

This (like the email above) has been occurring since they said the arrowhead would soon be replacing sharp sticks and those who thought wood was better than rock because you could grow it yourself still exist.

Stop making sense you ^$&$^!

If you keep doing that the net will explode.
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:19 PM   #8
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Karbomusic...

What is difficult about making a piece of software available in a SMALL download (which means it was coded efficiently : so like 5Mb and not 5Gb !).

I think you will find that it is all down to GREED an HUGE PROFITS !!

REAPER doesn't play that game (for the moment ; and hopefully never will !), but Avid, et al, do !

Kind regards,
Fred
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:24 PM   #9
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Karbomusic...

What is difficult about making a piece of software available in a SMALL download (which means it was coded efficiently : so like 5Mb and not 5Gb !).

I think you will find that it is all down to GREED an HUGE PROFITS !!

REAPER doesn't play that game (for the moment ; and hopefully never will !), but Avid, et al, do !

Kind regards,
Fred
LOL, I'm not really talking about DAWs but the idea of subscriptions, infrastructure, technology and the resulting complexity needed to continue down the road we all enjoy everyday while at the same time acting like we don't enjoy it.

That and I don't judge stuff by the size of the installer since that is such a terrible metric that implies nothing more than ignorance; unless one is in that "one must beat the other" game as if this is some war that needs to be won and princess Lea is going to show up any moment with Luke, R2D2 and the gang to save the federation.

I really like the all caps greed and profits remark since I'm sure we'd all be better off if no one had jobs and we all painted rainbows on our heads and supported each other while making our own clothes. You sort of need to start your on country to get that happening.
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:27 PM   #10
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That and I don't judge stuff by the size of the installer since that is such a terrible metric; unless one is in that one must beat the other game as if this is some war that needs to be won and princess Lea is going to show up any moment with R2D2 to save the federation.
Stop doing that you ^$&#@*(@#! This is the net, you're not supposed to make sense, you're suppose to just make stuff up.

Bloat!
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:30 PM   #11
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Stop doing that you ^$&#@*(@#! This is the net, you're not supposed to make sense, you're suppose to just make stuff up.

Bloat!
I was going to link to all the "why the fk doesn't reaper include instruments, templates and the kitchen sink by default" threads but figured it would do no good. We have a DAW war going on man, no time for thinking about stuff. Back to your posts soldiers.
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:34 PM   #12
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Slate is following suit.
<snip>
That said Cakewalk Sonar and Slate Digital are going that way too.
I'm not a user of Slate plugins (does SS4 count?), but Slate has made it very clear that his subscription model is optional and you can continue to purchase a perpetual license in exactly the same way you can now with all the benefits that entails. He has also said that he has no intention of changing that model.

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Slate plugs are completely overrated. wouldnt use them as freeware, let alone pay every month.
Not having tried their plugins I cannot comment on whether they are overrated or not. Plenty of people think they are not. What I would say is that if I was starting out and wanted to get in to pro-level plugins (and let's assume Slate plugins are pro-level), then $20 a month for everything is very good value, especially as that includes all the plugins he will bring out in the future. He has also said that you can stop and start the subscription whenever you want with no loss of benefits. He has also also said (sorry!) that after 12 months of paying $20 a month, you will get a voucher for $200 to buy a permanent license.

I'm not a Slate fanboy, but all that sounds very very different to what Avid are offering and it seems unfair to lump Slate in with Avid in this case.
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:41 PM   #13
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Thought I thought I'd never say it... Subscription fears are nothing more than thinking one owned something based on a time that no longer exists or losing something they never had.

The net is an infrastructure now like 911 or the power grid or the water system and will be treated accordingly. You simply aren't going to find a time that the internet is down thusly you can't work because.... if something is so widespread and bad that it fails, not being able to launch your software isn't going to be your main concern, trust me. I'm purposely being a little general here because exceptions aren't the rule, thusly using them as justification is simply going to not be justifiable.

Lastly, unless someone wants all life and technology to be and always remain as it was 15 years ago, it isn't possible to not eventually end up with everything in clouds because it becomes way too complex to be managed otherwise. I know that breaks a lot of hearts and those who dream of always using a horse an buggy because you could feed your car but it is what it is.

This (like the email above) has been occurring since they said the arrowhead would soon be replacing sharp sticks and those who thought wood was better than rock because you could grow it yourself still exist.
Well you can take the high road and cite "progress" but I assure you that most ProTools users (particularly those using HD) are up in arms. 38 pages and going strong. Similar stuff over at DUC

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/namm...ight=pro+tools

Avid better tread lightly or they are definitely in serious trouble. They almost fell a couple years ago and the new business model is not generating much if any good will.

In my mind there is a difference between a well thought out cloud based delivery system and gouging the shit out of existing customers. Avid seems to fall into the second camp.
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:45 PM   #14
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If you're doing business with Protools, this is a very small piece of your budget.

We'll see how this pans out in terms of application quality, because if Avid can't deliver on that, it might tip the boat for some people. You can still only get Protools HD with a hardware bundle purchase, so not much has changed. You probably get a 12 month support package with that too.

I got the $200 PT 11 upgrade (coming from PT 9), but only because I may need to edit with PT from time to time. I'm certainly not going to mix with that little thing when I have Reaper, and I have no Icon D-Command or System 5/6 here or Protools HD for it to hook up to. So I'm ok with a 16 month upgrade support package I got with the upgrade offer. It's enough time to consider what this whole subscription malaky means for my business. Maybe I'll stay with PT 11.

Gobbler is cool enough as far as I can tell if you need a cloud solution, or some encryption layer on a Dropbox account.

Does anyone here work with other musicians and can use this marketplace feature ? Can anyone see themselves using that marketplace feature at all for collaboration and work-for-hire ?

Is it for the technologically non-proficient, or just a good time saver for you ?
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:45 PM   #15
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Well it sounds to me Karbomusic, that you have swallowed a f**king dictionary !

So it's goodnight from me, and I suspect, goodnight from the many readers of this forum that think you ars an ABSOLUTE SHOWER sir !

Kind regards,
Fred
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:47 PM   #16
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Well you can take the high road and cite "progress" but I assure you that paying ProTools customers are up in arms. 38 pages and going strong. Similar stuff over at DUC
I'm just saying that with anything new, you'll get about 80% blowback from people who hate ALL change. It would be silly to then assume all that is legitimate when about 100,000 years of history say that's just how we as humans operate.

Quote:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/namm...ight=pro+tools

Avid better tread lightly or they are definitely in serious trouble. They almost fell a couple years ago and the new business model is not generating much if any good will.

In my mind there is a difference between a well thought out cloud based delivery system and gouging the shit out of existing customers. Avid seems to fall into the second camp.
I think they've lost the hold or are losing it but that is just normal just like everything before it. Everything becomes "consumerized" eventually just like computers did, photography and now recording music. Nothing new here other than I agree that the days of a single company ruling that space for the big pro's is waning.

However, again, it's not necessarily their mistake, other than trying to hold onto it too long which anyone with a stronghold naturally does. It is very difficult to convince your board of directors to reinvent the company BEFORE the balance sheet say's so. And that is typically the only way to completely avoid what is being discussed.

The cloud "blowback" may or may not help but the evolution or failure of the company is not because of the cloud, it's because of "consumerization". I know everyone enjoy's hating the big guy and rooting for their downfall but outside of forums and gossip, it's just a company trying to survive. I don't disagree they have challenges, I just disagree with the beheading of the evil empire joy that goes with it.
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:49 PM   #17
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Well it sounds to me Karbomusic, that you have swallowed a f**king dictionary !
Well, a vocabulary is important when communicating ideas and making a point; otherwise it's just blabbing.
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Old 02-05-2015, 04:20 PM   #18
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Well I guess that you are just blabbing then !
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Old 02-05-2015, 04:21 PM   #19
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I was going to link to all the "why the fk doesn't reaper include instruments, templates and the kitchen sink by default" threads but figured it would do no good. We have a DAW war going on man, no time for thinking about stuff. Back to your posts soldiers.
Yeah. We all know "why", because Cockos would rather not bother, but as you say, the DAW wars comes up with multiple other fictional excuses like "free content sucks" ... while they go about the task of searching the net for free content.

You're like that wise Chinese guy at the top of the hill. Stop it. You're taking all the fun out of ze webz.
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Old 02-05-2015, 04:32 PM   #20
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If you're doing business with Protools, this is a very small piece of your budget.
If you're doing business with *anything* (any daw) it's a small piece of your budget. It's consumers on the web crying bloody murder about $300 a year, it's not the guys making $300 a day, they're fully subsidized.

Anyone running a business and doing proper bookeeping can deduct - all of it - as a legitimate business expense on their taxes. It's the hobbyists who want every new shiny toy for very little money that's crying about it.

Here's a good rule of thumb: If you find yourself often complaining about the price of something, you can't afford it, so stop complaining and buy something you can afford.
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Old 02-05-2015, 04:38 PM   #21
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If you're doing business with *anything* (any daw) it's a small piece of your budget. It's consumers on the web crying bloody murder about $300 a year, it's not the guys making $300 a day, they're fully subsidized.

Anyone running a business and doing proper bookeeping can deduct - all of it - as a legitimate business expense on their taxes. It's the hobbyists who want every new shiny toy for very little money that's crying about it.

Here's a good rule of thumb: If you find yourself often complaining about the price of something, you can't afford it, so stop complaining and buy something you can afford.
I don't agree with this at all. You can complain about the cost of something because the value that it presents is low, or because the value lessens over time.

There are 3 types of 'expensive' that apply in this situation:
  1. Unaffordable. You simply do not have the funds to acquire it
  2. Low-value. You don't get much for the price paid.
  3. Exorbitant maintenance. The item will increase in price over time without increasing in value.

Pro Tools 12, for many people, falls into 2 and 3. I am one of those people, and that is why I am here.
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Old 02-05-2015, 04:50 PM   #22
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Well by "complain" I meant "constantly complain as if I deserve it".

Every time I buy a new car I momentarily complain about the prices of new cars, but that doesn't last for months because I find a car I can afford and move on. I don't go to the Caddillac user forum and whine about how much BMW's cost, over and over and over and over while wishing for BMW to go bankrupt.

Newsflash: PT costs a lot and always has and always will, the real PT. It was the same 20 years ago and will be the same 20 years from now. That can't be news to anyone paying attention.

Like Karbo suggested, it's mostly just stupid daw war stuff where my daw has to beat some other daw and PT is a really easy target because buying the whole magilla brand new now costs about $2000. Nuendo has been up there for some years now, it's still selling. I assume most people buying it make enough money with it not to worry about it.
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Old 02-05-2015, 04:53 PM   #23
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Personally I think there whole motto is "out with the old, in with the new" in all regards.
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Old 02-05-2015, 05:56 PM   #24
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I assume most people buying it make enough money with it not to worry about it.
I hope I'm not taking this quote out of context, but I think you're missing the fact that it's not about the quantity of money you must spend on it, but the quality of product that is coming from Avid recently.

I myself am a recent PTHD refuge and I could not find value in continuing to use the software regardless of the monetary cost of the software itself.

It still costs me money to keep up with Avid's new formats, hardware, training, invest in a support plan I don't need etc... There are a lot of things that reduce the value of Avid's offerings right now.
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:00 PM   #25
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It's hard to shake the feeling that the move to a subscription model is due in part to a general saturation of needs in the audio world, or at least a large percentage of the needs of their market. I'm sure that DAWs 5 and 10 years from now will have all kinds of new killer features, but for most uses it's starting to seem pretty well-covered... (sorta like what happened in the desktop computer world where one day everyone realized that their old desktop did everything they needed it to do and the market slowed.) Perhaps Avid is looking down the road and figuring they'd better think quick before they run out of compelling reasons for people to upgrade?

I don't use PT but if I did the issue wouldn't be the cloudiness of the new model (although I'm skeptical) so much as the increased cost for no apparent gain (at least according to the above email).
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:09 PM   #26
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I hope I'm not taking this quote out of context, but I think you're missing the fact that it's not about the quantity of money you must spend on it, but the quality of product that is coming from Avid recently.
I think the part you're missing is that the entire world doesn't agree with you about that. Just because a guy feels a certain way doesn't mean the other 1,000,000 users actually agree, or that it's a literal truth.

We on the net often create our own realities. If an app crashes for us, that's the truth, it must be shit for everybody.

Not really.

I ignore most of it because...

1. You rarely even know who you're talking to and...
2. The vast majority of regular net posters have multi use systems with all kinds of crap on them and...
3. Some people are just not very technically adept and see major issues where there may not necessarily have to be any.

Truth is "perception" for many, not a literal truth. People have been predicting the downfall of AVID for years. They're still here and I suspect they'll still be here 20 years from now.

Truth be told, their native products are now much closer to the best native products. In other words, they've actually gotten better.

Now whether or not they can still mostly live on expensive hardware sales, HDX and all that, remains to be seen. My guess is that they will, and they will do more of what they did a couple of years ago, start trimming more of the overhead fat, laying people off because the market maybe doesn't support it so much anymore... but they'll still be selling the product.

As much as some people pray for PT to go away completely when they do their evening prayers, it's not gonna happen.

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Old 02-05-2015, 06:11 PM   #27
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I keep trying to explain to others that ISIS has the right idea... just the wrong people.
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:12 PM   #28
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In case you havent heard ProTools is the latest big name audio software to switch to a subscription based model (Sonar was first I believe, Slate is following...

SONAR is no more subscription than REAPER. You buy a version and you get updates free for that major version number. You decide you don't want to pay the next year's version, you don't lose anything, SONAR still works on your computer, nothing dies or disappears.

The only difference is you can pay for your Sonar licence monthly, and REAPER gives you 2 version numbers per licence.



>
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:24 PM   #29
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It's all nuts. First of all, AVID told people about this coming months ago. Secondly, Sonar is the only "popular" native only daw really doing anything like what they're doing... but still...

... people see the sky falling. Every daw forum has a joker jumping in saying "Don't do that!", even in places like Steinberg where they've already previously publicly said they won't ever do that.

The Internet has the attention span of a new puppy. Say something today that's factual and tomorrow 10 jokers are spreading false rumors about it. Some nut here even said he heard a rumor that Reaper was going iLok. It's... paranoia.

The sky isn't falling.

Look at what we have. Afaik, 3 media companies are doing what might be called a subscription, Adobe, Avid, and Cakewalk. What about the other 100 companies who do daws and video editing and graphics and stuff? Why does the act of 3 companies - a tiny minority - mean the sky is falling? Because we're paranoid.

Last edited by Lawrence; 02-05-2015 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:16 PM   #30
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If you're not a Pro Tools user, expect your favorite DAW to at least test the subscription waters soon, especially if Avid is successful.
What forum is this?

Because my favorite DAW isn't EVER GOING TO TEST THIS!!!!!
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:40 PM   #31
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I don't agree with this at all. You can complain about the cost of something because the value that it presents is low, or because the value lessens over time.

There are 3 types of 'expensive' that apply in this situation:
  1. Unaffordable. You simply do not have the funds to acquire it
  2. Low-value. You don't get much for the price paid.
  3. Exorbitant maintenance. The item will increase in price over time without increasing in value.

Pro Tools 12, for many people, falls into 2 and 3. I am one of those people, and that is why I am here.
Gotta take issue with points 2 and 3.

The Value for Money represented by P/T or any other DAW on the market is absolutely unbelievable. For under $1K you have software that can record and mix a project to a commercially releasable standard with nothing more than a computer and an audio interface.
Contrast that with a reel of 2inch tape retailing for $549 and which gives you 24 tracks (less if your printing time-code) and at 30ips will last for about half an hour.

As for maintenance, when I was running a tape machine and console set-up if I spent less than $1k per annum just keeping that thing running up to spec I was a happy man. Not to mention the down time waiting for parts to be delivered, fitted and calibrated and I was just using it for a couple of projects. That figure would have been much higher for any daily commercial type activity.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:01 PM   #32
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What forum is this?

Because my favorite DAW isn't EVER GOING TO TEST THIS!!!!!
I'm still waiting for your next series, "Bitwig Explained".
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:19 PM   #33
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Lawrence, how come you're in all "my DAW is better than yours" types of thread? This is not one of them but you somehow managed to slip that in. You're gonna grow grey hair some day because of these discussions man, seriously teh interwebz won't change, mate
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:26 PM   #34
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Gotta take issue with points 2 and 3.

The Value for Money represented by P/T or any other DAW on the market is absolutely unbelievable. For under $1K you have software that can record and mix a project to a commercially releasable standard with nothing more than a computer and an audio interface.
Contrast that with a reel of 2inch tape retailing for $549 and which gives you 24 tracks (less if your printing time-code) and at 30ips will last for about half an hour.

As for maintenance, when I was running a tape machine and console set-up if I spent less than $1k per annum just keeping that thing running up to spec I was a happy man. Not to mention the down time waiting for parts to be delivered, fitted and calibrated and I was just using it for a couple of projects. That figure would have been much higher for any daily commercial type activity.
This is such a common argument fallacy I want to set up a loudspeaker and blast it's correction over the entire world -

You are comparing a product and its market value, in a discussion about other products in the same instance of time with their own market values, against older technology and their market value at the time.

The fact is that there are a myriad of programs **right now** that give N features in the same category of use. The argument here is that Pro Tools provides less features for more money than its competitors, hence stating that his points are invalid saying that it's amazing how much we get for the money compared to methods of the past is completely irrelevant.

I don't deny, it is amazing how much we get for so little compared to the past. But that doesn't matter in this discussion at all.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:31 PM   #35
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Lawrence, how come you're in all "my DAW is better than yours" types of thread? This is not one of them but you somehow managed to slip that in. You're gonna grow grey hair some day because of these discussions man, seriously teh interwebz won't change, mate
I guess i always get blamed for it even though I only ever respond to others comments. I didn't slip anything in, I responded to comments made before i entered the thread.

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unless one is in that "one must beat the other" game as if this is some war that needs to be won and princess Lea is going to show up any moment with Luke, R2D2 and the gang to save the federation.
Which is what drives all this nonsense.

So I'll just STFU.

I actually think my participation here is likely coming to an end anyway so... it's all good.

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Old 02-05-2015, 08:39 PM   #36
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I guess i always get blamed for it even though I only ever respond to others comments. I didn't slip anything in, I responded to comments made before i entered the thread.



Which is what drives all this nonsense.

So I'll just STFU.

I actually think my participation here is likely coming to an end anyway so... it's all good.
Yeah, it's stupid to argue about that. I don't understand how people still discuss about this everywhere

Sorry for the off-topic bull, guys. Carry on.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:43 PM   #37
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It's cool. I spend way too much time posting here so I'm making a conscious decision to take a really, really, really long break.

I'll still peek in on the [don't talk about fight club] threads though, to see what's happening there along the way. I think my license is good through 5.99 so I'm interested to see where it goes.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:52 PM   #38
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It's cool. I spend way too much time posting here so I'm making a conscious decision to take a really, really, really long break.

I'll still peek in on the [don't talk about fight club] threads though, to see what's happening there along the way. I think my license is good through 5.99 so I'm interested to see where it goes.
Yeah, don't leave the fight club, man. Lots of cool stuff happening there.
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:28 PM   #39
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I hope I'm not taking this quote out of context, but I think you're missing the fact that it's not about the quantity of money you must spend on it, but the quality of product that is coming from Avid recently.

I myself am a recent PTHD refuge and I could not find value in continuing to use the software regardless of the monetary cost of the software itself.

It still costs me money to keep up with Avid's new formats, hardware, training, invest in a support plan I don't need etc... There are a lot of things that reduce the value of Avid's offerings right now.
I read at least a hundred posts which agree or along the same lines as what you said. There is a good amount of people on the internet forums(gearslutz, AVID DUC, various, mostly Low tier AVID customers) voicing their opinions on this new pro tools 12 upgrade and the new subscription service, and most of it, from what I've read is not good and not in favor for the new changes(what very little) AVID is making.

I think AVID is making a great move FOR THEMSELVES(they might land face first because of this, or thrive) but for their low tier current customers(everything below a HD system), this move is not bringing a whole lot of value for a justifiable upgrade.

NOW for AVID customers with HD systems this is a whole different game, I imagine this new model would definitely benefit HD system owners so long as they had a decent speed internet connection hooked up to their PC with ProTools HD. To any major recording studio or mixing facility/highly requested mixing engineer this will be great for them.
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:49 PM   #40
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This is such a common argument fallacy I want to set up a loudspeaker and blast it's correction over the entire world -

You are comparing a product and its market value, in a discussion about other products in the same instance of time with their own market values, against older technology and their market value at the time.

The fact is that there are a myriad of programs **right now** that give N features in the same category of use. The argument here is that Pro Tools provides less features for more money than its competitors, hence stating that his points are invalid saying that it's amazing how much we get for the money compared to methods of the past is completely irrelevant.

I don't deny, it is amazing how much we get for so little compared to the past. But that doesn't matter in this discussion at all.
Fergler, with respect I'll say that it's only a fallacy if you believe that the History of something is irrelevant to it's future.
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