Old 09-14-2014, 10:39 AM   #1
rickeb1
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Default Over-loud bass frequency

I’m having a problem with a recorded bass part that I’m sure you folks can help me with. The bass is fairly even volume-wise, except in certain places where it suddenly becomes loud and a couple of particular frequencies seem to resonate very loud. I’m trying to find the best way to deal with it. I’ve created a volume envelope and just dropped the volume in those sections, but it doesn’t seem like an ideal solution because the resonating frequency is still resonating, even if the volume is lower.

I’ve thought of using Hornet AutoGain (which I have), but I’m not sure what to use as the basis for controlling the bass volume. Maybe create a buss track, route all the other tracks to it, and use that buss track to control the bass volume? Maybe a compressor could help solve this? I do have a compressor on the track (COMPEQ from Terry West), but not being all that well versed in using a compressor, I’m not sure how to set the parameters properly to deal with these frequency peaks.

Neither of these really address the resonating frequency, which seems to be around 100 – 120Hz. I’ve placed ReaEq on the track and tried setting a point at that frequency with a narrow Q and dropping the volume, which seems better, but I’m still not sure it’s the best approach.

When I look at the wave diagram on the track, I can clearly see where the over-loud parts come in, as the wave expands way more than the rest of the track. It would be nice if I could somehow just select the top of the wave in that section and drag it down a bit. Is something like that possible?

Thanks very much for your thoughts!
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Old 09-14-2014, 10:49 AM   #2
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Use automation and compression for levels. For those resonances, if they show up only once in a while, automate a couple of eq notches to remove them only when they're there.

Cheers,
Alex
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Old 09-14-2014, 12:04 PM   #3
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Or a multiband compressor, ReaXComp for instance. Set one band fairly narrow, in the range where your resonance is showing up, and disable the other bands. Set it up with a fast attack, fast release, and set the threshold so that it's only compressing when you get those loud peaks. Also, on ReaXComp at least, make sure to turn off the Auto Makeup Gain.
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Old 09-14-2014, 12:44 PM   #4
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Thanks very much for the suggestions, I will give them a try!
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Old 09-14-2014, 12:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickeb1 View Post
It would be nice if I could somehow just select the top of the wave in that section and drag it down a bit. Is something like that possible?
Yes. Split the track on both sides of the peak and then you can pull the volume down to match the rest of the track on just that section(s). It's kind of involved though and I think the multicompressor might work be easier...
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Old 09-14-2014, 02:24 PM   #6
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Sometimes I have a similar situation and I always reach for my headphones before making any adjustments; sometimes certain frequencies will appear louder than others because of my room's acoustic, not because of anything I've recorded... just wanted to throw that out there; there might be nothing to correct :-)

HTH
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Old 09-14-2014, 02:43 PM   #7
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This ^^^^

Make sure you're not just correcting for the room. Check if you can see the volume jump on RMS metering or a loudness (graphing) metering plugin (eg TB EBULoudness). Check it on more than one system and on headphones, as suggested above.


>
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
This ^^^^

Make sure you're not just correcting for the room. Check if you can see the volume jump on RMS metering or a loudness (graphing) metering plugin (eg TB EBULoudness). Check it on more than one system and on headphones, as suggested above.


>
Yes! More often than not its a room acoustics issue.
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Old 09-17-2014, 01:44 PM   #9
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Hi, regarding the resonance problem i believe EQ is the thing to do, it won't affect other notes since the bass sound doesn't have many overtones (unless is distorted )

Regarding the level issue i would use a compressor first but if it dulls too much the sound try with AutoGain using a white noise as reference and a fast speed, this should level the bass.

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Old 09-17-2014, 02:18 PM   #10
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If its room tone the resonance will be constant and just cutting at that frequency should resolve the issue. If its a resonant note on the bass it will only pop out on certain notes.


Dynamic EQ would be my first choice for dealing with occasional resonances.

Multiband compression would be a close second. If you dont have a dynamic EQ try ReaXcomp.

You could simulate dynamic EQ by automating ReaEQ to duck the offending frequency everytime it pops up.
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:43 PM   #11
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VladG's Nova-67P. Takes some time to master, but it's a killer plug, really.

Cheers,
Alex
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:46 PM   #12
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And extremely useful reading for those who're new to parallel eq's:

http://vladgsound.wordpress.com/2014...ers-explained/
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:05 PM   #13
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I think some folks might be missing the point, and the correct solution, here.

If the room is the cause of pronounced bass response at certain notes then EQ and other processing is the last thing you should do to correct it. This is because if you remove the "offending" note(s) to make it sound good in your room, your track will be then missing that frequency in every other listening environment on the planet, and your listeners likely won't get to hear your track the way you intended it.

Similarly, if you add compression that's not actually needed then your track's going to get messier than it needs to be. Unnecessary mush in the low end makes then entire track mushy and often unfixable.

If the room's the cause then it's the room that needs to be fixed.

Again, check your mix on as many other platforms as possible (another hifi or two, the car, headphones, check in mono, too) before you go making changes that might not be needed.

Last time I had this issue I moved my desk along the wall, further away from the corner, and I moved my speakers an additional foot away from the wall behind them. Instant improvement.
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Old 09-17-2014, 07:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambiguation View Post
I think some folks might be missing the point, and the correct solution, here.

If the room is the cause of pronounced bass response at certain notes then EQ and other processing is the last thing you should do to correct it. This is because if you remove the "offending" note(s) to make it sound good in your room, your track will be then missing that frequency in every other listening environment on the planet, and your listeners likely won't get to hear your track the way you intended it.

Similarly, if you add compression that's not actually needed then your track's going to get messier than it needs to be. Unnecessary mush in the low end makes then entire track mushy and often unfixable.

If the room's the cause then it's the room that needs to be fixed.

Again, check your mix on as many other platforms as possible (another hifi or two, the car, headphones, check in mono, too) before you go making changes that might not be needed.

Last time I had this issue I moved my desk along the wall, further away from the corner, and I moved my speakers an additional foot away from the wall behind them. Instant improvement.
Good info but we don't know how he is listening to it. OP can you tell us whether you are using speakers or headphones please?
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:34 AM   #15
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I believe that if the OP is telling us that the bass has a resonant frequency, i think he's talking about the bass itself, it's easy to see if is the recorded track or your room, just open up a spectrum analyzer and look at the levels of the fundamental when the bass plays different notes

Saverio
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambiguation View Post
I think some folks might be missing the point, and the correct solution, here.

If the room is the cause of pronounced bass response at certain notes then EQ and other processing is the last thing you should do to correct it. This is because if you remove the "offending" note(s) to make it sound good in your room, your track will be then missing that frequency in every other listening environment on the planet, and your listeners likely won't get to hear your track the way you intended it.

Similarly, if you add compression that's not actually needed then your track's going to get messier than it needs to be. Unnecessary mush in the low end makes then entire track mushy and often unfixable.

If the room's the cause then it's the room that needs to be fixed.

Again, check your mix on as many other platforms as possible (another hifi or two, the car, headphones, check in mono, too) before you go making changes that might not be needed.

Last time I had this issue I moved my desk along the wall, further away from the corner, and I moved my speakers an additional foot away from the wall behind them. Instant improvement.
The OP didn't provide any info about his room, so, we can only offer the tools, assuming that the room's fine (which may or may not be true, but is easy to check).

Cheers,
Alex
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Old 09-18-2014, 07:00 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambiguation View Post
I think some folks might be missing the point, and the correct solution, here.

If the room is the cause of pronounced bass response at certain notes then EQ and other processing is the last thing you should do to correct it. This is because if you remove the "offending" note(s) to make it sound good in your room, your track will be then missing that frequency in every other listening environment on the planet, and your listeners likely won't get to hear your track the way you intended it.

Similarly, if you add compression that's not actually needed then your track's going to get messier than it needs to be. Unnecessary mush in the low end makes then entire track mushy and often unfixable.

If the room's the cause then it's the room that needs to be fixed.

Again, check your mix on as many other platforms as possible (another hifi or two, the car, headphones, check in mono, too) before you go making changes that might not be needed.

Last time I had this issue I moved my desk along the wall, further away from the corner, and I moved my speakers an additional foot away from the wall behind them. Instant improvement.
Possibly... this depends on whether the resonance was in the room in which the track was recorded (in which case EQ and/or compression absolutely can work) or if it is a resonance in the room which he is monitoring.

If its a monitoring room issue then a decent pair of headphones will sort that right out. If the resonance appears in the headphones then we can safely assume it is either the bass itself or a room resonance recorded during tracking.

Also if the OP can hear the resonance with the volume way down and also SEE a volume jump on the meters I would think that its not a monitoring issue.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:03 AM   #18
rickeb1
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Thanks everyone for all of the replies, I have a lot of things to consider! The big question everyone has seems to be whether this is a "room" issue or not, and the answer is that it is not. It has to do with the bass having certain notes that resonate a lot, almost like a buzz, resulting in those notes being much louder that the rest. Where these notes occur, I can see it very plainly visually on the track volume line where when the note hits, the wave pattern blows up much bigger than the rest of the bass line (I'm not saying this right, but hopefully you get what I mean here).

Thanks again!

~ Rick
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:40 PM   #19
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Awesome. Glad you were able to identify the prob... and sorry for being a little overbearing, folks
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:54 PM   #20
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You can manually automate volume for those very spot where the bass is too much if there is just a couple. It would be similar to compress the bass. I second using Vlagd Nova-67 but it is indeed a hard beast to harness I'm not there yet and I use ReaXcomp for those task but the idea of taming precise frequencies with dynamic EQ is a good thing to keep in mind. I suggest you take the time to look into basic EQ and compressors further to understand the way they act then multiband compressor and then dynamic EQ. Could it be due to your tracking ?
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