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Old 09-18-2014, 10:03 AM   #1
Ral-Clan
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Default Getting same volume level for all tracks on an album with Reaper?

Hi,

I am considering releasing some music, for fun, as a very short-run home-made EP on cassette (yes, cassette).

So essentially, I would arrange all songs for, let say, side-A of the cassette into a 30 minute long WAV and play this from the computer as the cassette deck recorded. Then have another 30 minute long WAV of all songs for side-B of the cassette. This way I could just walk away while the cassettes were dubbing.

I want to make sure that all the songs have the same relative (apparent) volume for the listener. When I've burned music to CD, I've used a command-line tool called "NORMALIZE" which adjusts all the songs I want to burn to the same RMS volume. This tool would basically scan each song for its average volume, and adjust all songs to the same user defined volume (quiet songs louder, loud songs quieter). It also had a limiter built in to avoid digital clipping.

http://normalize.nongnu.org/README.html

It wasn't really a compressor, as it didn't affect the dynamics of the individual songs, it would rather boost or attenuate whole songs to match the desired output volume. It was a "destructive" tool in that the processed WAV files were permanently altered by the volume change.

Is there a VST tool in Reaper I can put on the master output track in REAPER that will do the same thing in a non-destructive way? I have a few limiters in my VST arsenal, but it seems like a limiter might be a little blunt as it only limits peaks(maybe that's all Normalize ever did?). Also, is there a scope of some sort that will tell me the average volume coming out of the master track (RMS volume) after such a tool, so that I can set a volume "target".

Thanks.

Last edited by Ral-Clan; 09-18-2014 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:07 AM   #2
Reno.thestraws
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If you install the beta release of the sws extesnions, you'll find a new window called loudness that permits you to normalize different item at the same LUfS level
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ral-Clan View Post

Is there a VST tool in Reaper I can put on the master output track in REAPER that will do the same thing in a non-destructive way? I have a few limiters in my VST arsenal, but it seems like a limiter might be a little blunt as it only limits peaks(maybe that's all Normalize ever did?). Also, is there a scope of some sort that will tell me the average volume coming out of the master track (RMS volume) after such a tool, so that I can set a volume "target".

Thanks.
Yup. I would use a VU meter. Try the freebies from slpeeytime or LSR.

http://sleepytimedsp.com/downloads
http://www.lsraudio.com/lvlmeter.html


Zero the meter for the average volume you want (say -10dbfs) and for each song set the fader so that the VU is hovering around 0vu. Done.

P.S. use a limiter if setting the average volume creates peaks that go over 0dbfs.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:58 PM   #4
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guys, can you please diffrerentiate between peak normalizing and RMS leveling?

what you call normalizing makes all songs peak at the same point. that doesnt mean they have the same volume. because important is what gos on below the peaks. peak normalizing is the biggest bullshit I have ever seen (and heard) to bring all songs to a near same volume. and there are still lots of postings and articles who declare peak normalising as the solution.

the problem is: the volume you speak of is in fact the perceived volume. and the RMS comes close to give that perceived volume a number.

to make the songs sound near same level to you there are two methods: have them with the fader bring to the near same RMS level. if you are satisfied, good. leave it this way, you are done.

the second method can be used too as the second step to method one: put all songs each on its own track in reaper, use the solo switch in toggle mode and bring them with switching between the songs all to the same perceived loudness. that can be tricky, if for example there is a song starting with a nice quite acoustic guitar and then all of a sudden hell with a dozen metal guitars breaks loose. (I love such songs. ... :-))

render all the tracks to single files/songs and reimport these songs again onto one track and let this track play.

(second method is a great way to master an album btw, what in fact you are doing here.)
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:16 PM   #5
Reno.thestraws
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Quote:
and the RMS comes close to give that perceived volume a number.
Not exactly. Rms level is an average level of x msec. It shows the power (electrity) generate by your signal.

The problem with the "volume" is that the human hearing is not linear at all!

Try yourself :

Create a tone at 30hz and set the volume to achieve let's say -18db rms on a digital vu meter

Now create a tone at 300hz and set the volume to achieve the same levelon the digital vu

Listen to first tone and, then the second. Do they have the same perceived volume?


The only way to achieve same perceived volume on different songs is to do a premastering that need accurate monitoring and lots of experience

If you can't , try lufs normalisation, you'll not sound as loud as the last miley cyrrus record but your album will get enough volume consistancy for being listen properly
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:13 PM   #6
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To the OP, when I do something like this I usually work with my individual track mixes. I add each mix to my project, usually with just two stereo tracks...song1 on track 1, song2 on track 2, song3 on track 1, song4 on track 2. I do this mostly so that I can see everything easily.

I enable free item positioning and I drag the songs to where I want them to obtain my spacing. I don't always stick to a 2 second gap, I go with what feels right.

Then I usually normalize each song with normalize item. That gets all the peaks the same, but I don't always want that. With the songs normalized to 0db I can pull down the volume of any individual song. I hit play and mouseclick at various parts of the songs and pull down volumes to suit me. I just do this by ear. Sometimes a quiet acoustic song sounds obnoxiously loud at 0db when it follows a rockin' song.

If I'm dubbing to a cassette I have a 5-10 second moment of silence to account for any leader tape. I also create 2 files, a side A and a side B. I find it easier to dub in small batches, so I may do 5 cassettes with side A, then load up the other file and do the side B.

And if it's an EP, I usually have each side the same.
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:50 PM   #7
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Using a LUFS meter will help you objectify and quantify the "volume" of the tracks. One step better than using RMS metering.

LUFS normalising is all well and good for similar song types, but thinner sounding material (acoustic, or no drums/prcussion) should be quieter so as not to sound out of place with more "Rocking" material. Use LUFS metering for reference, but also use your ears.


>
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
Using a LUFS meter will help you objectify and quantify the "volume" of the tracks. One step better than using RMS metering.

LUFS normalising is all well and good for similar song types, but thinner sounding material (acoustic, or no drums/prcussion) should be quieter so as not to sound out of place with more "Rocking" material. Use LUFS metering for reference, but also use your ears.>
Exactly how do you do that? Curious...
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Old 09-20-2014, 12:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
but also use your ears.
>
IMO this is the only accurate way
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