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Old 03-03-2015, 09:20 PM   #1
Mr. PC
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Default Suck the inside out of a flute so your cello can sparkle through

So, sometimes I'm mixing something, and for example, there's a flute playing with cello, and I REALLY love the sound of the cello, to the point that I don't even want to have the flute, because it takes away from the cello tone.

But then, I *really* love the flute, and, it might get kindof boring as the cello's only doing arpeggios etc.

So I keep the flute, but, I don't want it sucking away the cello's tone. I imagine in my head the sound of the flute becoming hollow, or translucent, so that the little creaks and sparks of cello shine through. I've thought of two ways of doing it

1 - use an EQ like Ozone, which will analyze the freq response of the cello, then I subtract that same frequency from the flute. To take it a step further (I don't know if it's possible), but you could automate it, so it's continually sucking whatever the cello does out of the flute, making the cello really clear (and screwing with the flute completely, but I don't care; might even be a cool effect).

2 - Using a 32-multiband compressor like Voxengo Soniformer. Use the cello as a side-chain input into the multi-comp being applied to the flute, which I think should compress the flute frequencies.

Would this work? Maybe it would sound terrible? Anyone able to try it? [I mean, not just limited to flute and cello, the problem happens all the time; drums, synth, piano etc.]
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Old 03-03-2015, 11:52 PM   #2
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there is something called trackspacer by wavesfactory that does this
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Old 03-04-2015, 01:08 AM   #3
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You might want to toss the flute. If you enjoy the cello more, capitalize.
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Old 03-04-2015, 01:20 AM   #4
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#2 is a great idea. That or a dynamic eq sidechain to make the flute duck the cello frequencies
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Old 03-04-2015, 03:18 AM   #5
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If you don't know how to accomplish the above tip, just use SPAN to analyze the frequencies yourself and use an eq. I would deal with it by bandpassing the flute, which will make it sound more distant, and maybe delaying one of the stereo channels a bit so that it sounds "wider" than the cello. Then you have flute-wrapped cello.
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:59 AM   #6
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Taking option 2 a bit further leads to option 3: use a vocoder to not only suck the inside out of the flute, but also also infuse it with the inside of that cello.
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Old 03-04-2015, 09:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindu Stan View Post
there is something called trackspacer by wavesfactory that does this
very kewl tool
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Old 03-04-2015, 09:40 PM   #8
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I think a dynamic eq sidechain would also be similar, but it wouldn't automate the frequencies it's ducking, right?

Delaying one of the channels to make the flute sound wide is also a good idea; I should've thought about that.

The vocoder idea is also curious, but I'm afraid that would *really* destroy the flute tone, and I think even change the cello tone.

Ok, I'm trying track-spacer, which in theory does exactly what I was thinking of doing with Soniformer, but I'm ABing is, and Trackspacer sounds better IMO. It's quite impressive actually; I can hear the room of the cello way better. I think I'm going to be using it on a lot of things. I did a test, piling the affect on top of itself 5 times, and it sounds horrible. I'm wondering if there's a way to get a specific plugin to process at a higher resolution (in this case, trackspacer).
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Old 03-04-2015, 11:05 PM   #9
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There is also Meldaproductions MSpectralDynamics.
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Old 03-05-2015, 02:11 AM   #10
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As heda suggests -that plugin can be put on each of the flute and cello tracks, and the instances talk to each other so you can see the frequency overlap from either plug.

My first call would be to bung a midrange cut (scoop) on the flute and sweep it around while listening to both of them -this way you can find what frequencies in the flute are trampling on your cello sound and tame them.

Hollow-out and freq-scoop would tend to be the same thing for me regarding EQ.



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Old 03-05-2015, 04:46 AM   #11
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Spaceboy 32bit is working fine for me bridged to 64. Very similar to track spacer. $30.
http://www.elevayta.net/product4.htm
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Old 03-05-2015, 04:58 AM   #12
Geoff Waddington
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Panning is your friend.

I often use simple planing to separate things when I have this issue, but maybe you already tried that
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Old 03-05-2015, 07:57 AM   #13
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here is another diff approach... you might get the results you are after and more ... there is a demo: Virtual Sound Stage

http://www.parallax-audio.com/

what can be done with it is quite amazing.
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Old 03-05-2015, 05:45 PM   #14
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Hey, thanks guy

The thing that worked best was soundspacer. I'd already panned them how I wanted

Just to be clear, I'm not really having much 'interference' at all. It's just that I really loved the solo cello tone, so the flute covering 20% of that tone made me unhappy. Probably no on else would ever hear it or care, to be frank. For example, there are many other section where different instruments covered the cello, including the flute, and they were all fine, because my intention during those moments wasn't to show off the celloyness of the cello.
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Old 03-05-2015, 08:48 PM   #15
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weirdest thread title to read after drinking
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Old 03-06-2015, 12:45 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
weirdest thread title to read after drinking
lol. I thought it was pretty weird stone cold sober!
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Old 03-06-2015, 09:00 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. PC View Post
I'd already panned them how I wanted

.
just to be clear also.... that virtual sound stage is not about panning as you might normally think of it.... you might well be surprised at what it can do to how diff instruments sound in the mix and in the stereo field.... just sayin'
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Old 03-07-2015, 06:46 PM   #18
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I tried parallax once and I didn't like it. It might just be that it changed the sound in a way I wasn't expected, but it didn't seem realistic to me.


I usually pan first, then use Altiverb, plus maybe some EQ. I don't think an algorithm can convincingly pull of early reflections, but I've heard algorithmic tails that sound nice.
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