Old 03-13-2012, 06:01 PM   #1
laser558
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Default Editing with in and out points

Hello to you all. I am new to the forum here and taking a look at Reaper. Now, unlike most of you, I do not come from a music background, rather my sound engineering was primarily recording the human voice and editing. I used to edit on an Mtrax, which was very similar to the AMS Audiophile. Naturally, I would constantly be editing the voice, taking a word from one take to another, trimming breaths to get the piece into time etc. To make an edit was simply. You would either select, cut, copy or erase and then put an "in" marker at the start of the audio you wanted to either cut, copy or erase, followed by an "out" mark at the end of it, then push confirm and job done. Editing was not done via waveform but by using your ears and a nice jog/scrub wheel. Now, in all of these DAW based environments, Reaper, it seems to me has the best jog/scrub commands, really smooth. Is there any way (and please tell me there is) that I can scrub the piece of audio, find the start point by doing that, put in a marker (or something else) to mark the start of the edit, continue to scrub/jog until I get to the end point and then put a marker there, push confirm and the edit is done? A long question, I cannot find an answer. Please, I would so very much appreciate your help on this. Many thanks.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:40 PM   #2
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I guess Airon is the guy to answer this, as he is doing lots of voice editing as far as I know. I could probably come up with ways, but I'm sure he knows much better what you need and how to best go about it in Reaper.

So instead of guessing around I'll just PM him and invite him in. Hold the line .
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:36 PM   #3
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Thank you gofer. I'll hold! Just to add to my original post, I have a bit of a workaround, perhaps not so elegant as I would like. Find the in point, add a marker, find the out point and add another marker, then draw the selection between the two points, the draw gives a little stop by the marker before going on beyond it, so if I stop when the cursor does initially, it seems to work. God, I hope all that makes sense. My wife just said to me that she doesn't understand a word I'm going on about...mind you, that's often!
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:52 PM   #4
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Try 'split items at project markers'. It's in the actions list. If it works for you, you can right click in an empty area of the toolbar, choose 'customize' and add the action there. You could also add it to a floating toolbar or just assign a key combo to it.
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:23 PM   #5
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Yeah, I remember working like that too, mostly on Augan and Fairlights.

Actually you can work like that, and it's not that different from the old workstations, if that's what you want.

Reaper has a playhead and an edit cursor.

You can create what is called a time selection, which is basically the IN and OUT. Anything you want to operate on, also requires that it be selected, namely items, called clips, regions or whatever else in other DAWs/workstations.

So a cross section of time selection and item selection is what you'll be working with.



Selecting items is simple. Click on them. Or use an action to select an item under the mouse cursor. Or select all items on the currently selected track(s). There's an action for almost everything, and you can string as many together as you like, in the Actions window. You'll find that in the Actions menu at the top of the main program window.

"Time Selection: Set start point"
"Time Selection: Set end point"

is what you're looking for. The filter in the action window is very helpful in find stuff like this. Just type in partial bits and it finds it immeadiately.


Options are important in Reaper. You can make it do a lot of things in many different ways, but one particular option you'll want to take care of is in the Preferences of Reaper.

Preferences / Editing Behavior / uppermost section

"Clear time selection when edit cursor moves on click in arrange view"
May be important to you. Study those options well and just try them out. And don't be afraid to ask questions. This is a friendly place.


Mouse Modifiers.
If you're in to using the mouse at all, you'll probably save some time taking a closer look. You can set up many different things to happen, depending on where you are with the mouse cursor, what modifier combinations you're holding, which mouse button you're pressing, and how you're pressing them.

For example, I have Scrubbing set to CTRL + Right-click drag. It's a little closer to what I use in Protools.

One note on the scrub. It's unfinished. I(my fault) made the mistake of telling Justin "Let's test this for a while and see". That was two years ago or more. Compared to Protools, I find it is too lose and rubbery right now. Never mind the Augan scrub with that huge jog wheel.


A tip for editing in workstation style.
You can easily setup mouse modifiers or keyboard commands to select all items on a track. The double-click on a track does in fact select all items on it by default.

There are also actions to select track 01 to track 99, if you're keen on having that around again . Combine that with selecting all items on a track and you might get your wish.

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Last edited by airon; 03-14-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:54 PM   #6
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Thank you to all of you who replied so quickly and so usefully. I shall put all of these thoughts into practice. As I say, I have gone through a number of DAW based systems and by far, it seems Reaper is coming out tops and I've only just started evaluating it. A great forum and I'm very happy to be part of it.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:24 AM   #7
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I use a Contour jog/shuttle wheel and I have several editing keys set on an X-Keys keyboard, including "Time Selection: Set start point" and "Time Selection: Set end point", and I often work in this way, setting up a selection to edit and splitting using "Split at selection" (Shift-S as a default, I think), or "Copy selected area of selected item".


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Old 03-14-2012, 07:28 AM   #8
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Hello airon. Many thanks for pointing me in the direction of the Action List. Perfect, really perfect. I have shortcut I for the in point and O for the out and it works a treat. I shall now investigate further the action list but I am so happy about that. I know, normally people might get excited about a new car but not me, give me the in and out points anyday!
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
I use a Contour jog/shuttle wheel and I have several editing keys set on an X-Keys keyboard, including "Time Selection: Set start point" and "Time Selection: Set end point", and I often work in this way, setting up a selection to edit and splitting using "Split at selection" (Shift-S as a default, I think), or "Copy selected area of selected item".
>
How fast can you scroll the edit cursor around with that ? The MCU jog wheel strikes me as a rather nasty thing for editing. Slow and not precise enough. That said, I am only intrigued and have left the jog wheel days behind, at least when it comes to editing.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
How fast can you scroll the edit cursor around with that ? The MCU jog wheel strikes me as a rather nasty thing for editing. Slow and not precise enough. That said, I am only intrigued and have left the jog wheel days behind, at least when it comes to editing.
Hello Airon, I'm very interested in this response and your previous response. It appears that you don't rely on jog/shuttle features now but clearly, you used to. Firstly, do I assume you might have worked with Augan/Mtrax? Secondly, if you don't use the jog/shuttle anymore, how do you make precise edits, for example, cutting the start of say a breath (or the end of it for that matter) and say putting a fade into the remainder? I probably need to put a different head on myself having come through the ranks of analogue tape editing, onto Augan/Mtrax and now investigating various DAW platforms. Maybe I am wrong and I would welcome opinion but I cannot see how going onto a wave form to cut a low level breath without using one's ears could work, unless the the wave form is magnified to deal with this. I genuinely don't know how it works in the waveform environment and any answers would be great to read. Thanks a lot.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:38 AM   #11
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Late response, but here it comes.

I rely on both waveforms and scrubbing. You can actually identify a lot of stuff by listening to it once and then editing by waveform. It's just experience as it is with so many other things.

With the lightning quick mouse-wheel zoom in/out it does get a little easier. Reapers scrub isn't as precise as that of Protools(it slips and slides across a minimum of material at the smallest mouse movements) or Augan.

I was trained on the Augan OMX-24 machine, later working on Fairlight MFX3+, Protools 3 and later and of course PC-based DAWs.

With reasonably well done waveform overviews, as Reaper does it, and now even Protools does it(v9+), the waveforms are a big help.

Remember that you can tell Reaper how to draw those waveforms at both an overview level and individual sample level(separate preference setting). I use no antiliasing and smooth samples (Preferences/Appearance/PeakWaveforms). That works very well for me, but do check out the settings available.

And don't forget that you can stack commands in to custom actions, so you could zoom in much further with just one button press, horizontally and/or vertically.

Get used to finding out how you want to work, not how the DAW works.
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
How fast can you scroll the edit cursor around with that ? The MCU jog wheel strikes me as a rather nasty thing for editing. Slow and not precise enough. That said, I am only intrigued and have left the jog wheel days behind, at least when it comes to editing.
Very fast, it has a shuttle collar as well as jog wheel, and with modifiers (and esp if I use lots of markers -modifier to jog by marker-point) I can tear up and down a two-hour timeline very easily. Its driver generates key-presses, so you can shift, alt, win, ctrl, and combinations on top of the wheel and jog collar.

I use it in a zoom-dependent scrub resolution for big and small moves and a fixed resolution (ie irrespective of zoom-level) resolution for finding phrases, etc. I like it very much, suits my sometimes semi-random editing workflow when given particular no-win-scenario jobs

I do play about trying out workflow ideas, but I'm not changing much with the Contour shuttle so much now I'm confortable. I use markers and marker lists, too, but I do like my wheel.

Sorry mate, didn't see your reply until you bumped it..!

>
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Last edited by planetnine; 04-18-2012 at 12:42 PM.
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