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Old 12-03-2008, 09:43 PM   #1
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Default What is "Record MIDI Touch Replace" please?

Could somebody give me please an idiot's guide to what this means and what it does with perhaps an example of when/how you might use?

Thanks!
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:54 PM   #2
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it's like midi replace, except doesnt remove existing notes when no key is currently down on that channel...
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Old 12-03-2008, 11:33 PM   #3
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it's like midi replace, except doesnt remove existing notes when no key is currently down on that channel...
Ah, clever! Thanks.
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:27 PM   #4
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The touch replace is a bit of a problem. You can only replace with notes longer than the one already existing. Otherwise you get short rudiments of the previous notes between the last note off and the next note on.

Perhaps a mode should be considered where all notes are completely erased between the first note on and the last note off received during the record (or loop).
Or even slicker yet a kind of release time window that gives a bit of time after the note off. When a new note on occurs inside that timeframe, other notes are erased, if not, it behaves as current.

Another interesting mode for drum loop construction would be to only erase notes of the same pitch as received. Combined with a method to just erase the received note and not record the new one (while a modifier is pressed), that would give us the loop constructing features those Roland x0x series boxes provided. Would for sure be cool to work TR909 style without being committed to the 16th grid

Last edited by gofer; 12-04-2008 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:56 PM   #5
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Another interesting mode for drum loop construction would be to only erase notes of the same pitch as received. Combined with a method to just erase the received note and not record the new one (while a modifier is pressed), that would give us the loop constructing features those Roland x0x series boxes provided. Would for sure be cool to work TR909 style without being committed to the 16th grid
Yes please!!!! ++1


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Old 08-26-2011, 12:07 AM   #6
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I posted this in this thread.
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Originally Posted by Scoox View Post
Reaper is my favourite DAW by miles but I often struggle with its MIDI loop recording capabilities. The best path Cockos could possibly take is to imitate Cubase's MIDI loop recording modes. They are absolutely awesome.

Reaper's replace mode is useless both when loop recording and non-loop recording: Parts of previous notes get chopped off and then you end up with a messy hybrid of the previous take and the current one. In Cubase, Replace Mode replaces the ENTIRE last take (not just the bits where you hit notes) ONLY if MIDI input is received. So you play something, then you listen to it over and over, while nothing is being recorded (although record is still engaged and waiting for more MIDI input). If you decide you don't like it, you simply play the part again and the previous take gets overwritten by the new one. Replace on MIDI input. How awesome is that?

Also, in normal mode Reaper keeps adding new takes even when no MIDI input has been received. This makes no sense: I always end up with loads of empty takes and then I have to go and sort them out. Cubase only adds a new take if MIDI input was received, so there's never empty takes. In Reaper I always feel under pressure to keep playing in fear of creating too many empty takes and then having to worry about tidying up the mess. In Cubase I can simply take a break, listen to the last take as many times as I see fit, and then carry on when I am ready to do the next take. This feels so natural and comfortable, I often record my MIDI in Cubase and then import it into Reaper.

OK maybe I am missing something, but I would like to know if anyone agrees with the following assessment:

MIDI non-loop recording:
  • Record: Input - Works as expected
  • Record MIDI: Overdub in existing items - Works as expected
  • Record MIDI: Replace in existing items - Useless
  • Record MIDI: Touch-replace in existing items - Useless

MIDI loop recording:
  • Record: Input - Average, could be improved to not record empty takes
  • Record MIDI: Overdub in existing items - Works as expected
  • Record MIDI: Replace in existing items - Useless
  • Record MIDI: Touch-replace in existing items - Useless

Also, I would like to be able to UNDO the last take whilst recording. This is possible in a number of other DAWs e.g. Samplitude. This is great because you can always go back the previous take when using Replace Mode. In Reaper you first need to disengage the Record button and then you can undo. This can be solved using a macro, but ideally it should be built-in because it simply makes sense.

Generally speaking I don't particularly like Cubase's workflow (which is why I use Reaper) but I must admit Steinberg have got this one 100% spot-on.

What do you pals think?
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:55 AM   #7
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"Replace-Mode" kind-of-works. The only bug I have found (a major one) is that when you try to record recording MIDI CC Reaper inserts a note at the start of each loop.
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3924

What is your problem with replace? I did have some problems at first but sorted it out with preferences.

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Also, in normal mode Reaper keeps adding new takes even when no MIDI input has been received. This makes no sense: I always end up with loads of empty takes and then I have to go and sort them out.
I'm a Reaper n00b and don't really undertand (or care to understand) "takes" but I managed to have it behave like Cubase (circa 1996) with preferences and my "stop-recording" MIDI button also executes two more actions:
Item: Select all items in track
Item: Glue items

Hope that helps.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:20 AM   #8
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This is what happens when I record the same note three times, once on each loop iteration.



The second time I start recording the note a bit earlier and end it earlier too. The original NoteOn is erased (as it should be); ideally the NoteOff of the original recording would also disappear. Not only does it remain, but the part where they overlap is silent because what seems to happen is the original NoteOn becomes a NoteOff and the new NoteOff becomes a NoteOn.

The third time I start in the middle of the original note but record past it. As advertised by gopher a new NoteOff is generated (in effect making the original recording longer). Again it would be preferable if the original NoteOff was deleted.

If we "touch" the note, we want to "replace" the ENTIRE note. I cannot imagine a scenario where the existing behaviour is useful.

I used Reaper v4.151 with the following settings...
Record: MIDI Touch-Replace
Record Mode: Normal
Trim content behind media items when editing

Last edited by sqgl; 03-08-2012 at 06:40 AM. Reason: Merged accidental double post into one
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:37 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by sqgl View Post
If we "touch" the note, we want to "replace" the ENTIRE note. I cannot imagine a scenario where the existing behaviour is useful.
+1

note on / off in reaper is quite different to other daws out there

like if you start playback half way through a midi note it will play that note up to its note off (almost as if note on at start & note off at end is not what's sent)

witch causes all sorts of problems with overlapping midi (more unwanted note on's & off's, or should i just say "Notes")

for me this is reapers biggest floor in the Midi Editor, it seems to treat midi notes in the ME like it handles media items in the main sequencer?

i dream that one day the ME will conform to the way of Midi


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Old 03-08-2012, 07:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subz View Post
+1

note on / off in reaper is quite different to other daws out there

like if you start playback half way through a midi note it will play that note up to its note off (almost as if note on at start & note off at end is not what's sent)

witch causes all sorts of problems with overlapping midi (more unwanted note on's & off's, or should i just say "Notes")

for me this is reapers biggest floor in the Midi Editor, it seems to treat midi notes in the ME like it handles media items in the main sequencer?

i dream that one day the ME will conform to the way of Midi


Subz
This explains an overdub issue I was having the other day I was sure I had something set wrong. Obviously not. Please change this behaviour if a note is touched then it should be gone Full stop!
Thanks.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subz View Post
+1

note on / off in reaper is quite different to other daws out there

like if you start playback half way through a midi note it will play that note up to its note off (almost as if note on at start & note off at end is not what's sent)

witch causes all sorts of problems with overlapping midi (more unwanted note on's & off's, or should i just say "Notes")

for me this is reapers biggest floor in the Midi Editor, it seems to treat midi notes in the ME like it handles media items in the main sequencer?

i dream that one day the ME will conform to the way of Midi


Subz
+1 The MIDI editor needs some love
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:53 PM   #12
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I agree 100% with Scoox' post above. Reaper needs this fixed...
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:09 PM   #13
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This explains an overdub issue I was having the other day I was sure I had something set wrong. Obviously not. Please change this behaviour if a note is touched then it should be gone Full stop!
Thanks.
+1 from me too. I keep coming up against this problem - I can't get overdub or replace to behave like I feel it should. Needs addressing. I'm actually surprised more people aren't up in arms about this, unless we're missing something...?!
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:48 AM   #14
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Now that I've gotten my MIDI controller, I'm beginning to see the big deal about this. I hate to bump an old thread, but this really needs to be addressed. Like, big time. I can't imagine any scenario where the current behavior is useful, either.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:53 PM   #15
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All of this gets a big +1 from me too. I've been bumping up against these same issues on a current project where I'm meticulous recording and editing midi parts.
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Old 10-29-2015, 02:22 AM   #16
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Default Reaper's MIDI Overdub Touch-Replace - bug?

Trying to do a simple "punch in" (overdub a replacement set of notes) correction on played-in MIDI by setting track to Record MIDI Touch-Replace and I'm wondering if it's me or Reaper. It's leaving bits of previous notes around and always takes a clean up in the MIDI editor to correct. The quoted post below is exactly what I'm seeing.

This was apparently still an issue in 2012 but then this thread went dead, please tell me there's been a cure since (so Reaper works like Cubase MIDI and replaces *all* of the note you're "punching in" on cleanly, even if the replacement note is shorter than the original) but I just can't find it!

Is there another MIDI replace/overdub mode hiding somewhere?

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I posted this in this thread.
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Old 10-29-2015, 03:09 AM   #17
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Nope, no fixes regarding this since 2012 sadly...
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Old 10-29-2015, 03:50 AM   #18
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Not something that affects my workflow that often, but yes - a timely reminder that it is seven YEARS since this issue was first raised.

But is there a bugfix request or a feature request anywhere on this?

Sadly yet another example of the little things that mean a lot getting lost in the flurry of new feature-itis, I think.
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Old 10-29-2015, 05:07 AM   #19
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Although I'd like to see this "fixed" too, I do find as an option that the current mode can have it's uses so be good to have both of these in the right click options.
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Old 10-29-2015, 05:09 AM   #20
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The current touch-replace is more like touch-insert
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Old 10-29-2015, 05:26 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
The current touch-replace is more like touch-insert
Indeed

Still useful though. I've had things like long sustained notes for things like flutes where I can replace with a flourish here or there and have it go straight back to the sustained note.

Having the note deleted in that sense would mean more work so options options options!
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Old 06-13-2016, 11:43 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Nope, no fixes regarding this since 2012 sadly...
ED have you seen anything changed in this? What's your workaround for the MIDI touch replace ordeal?
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Old 06-13-2016, 01:42 PM   #23
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I'm not using it.
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Old 06-13-2016, 02:41 PM   #24
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I'm not using it.
Doh Ok!
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Old 03-02-2017, 04:14 AM   #25
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Hey everybody!
I have begun to do more and more MIDI recording and realized that the overdub/replace features are great for working inside an item. I previously recorded takes in loop mode and cut one final version. But as already mentioned before, there are some problems that cost a lot of extra time.

1) When overdubbing you get small note fractions of the same note due to live play (timing) -> I feel those small note fractions (1-6ms) should simply be discarded
2) A great addition would be some kind of "SOLO overdubbing". When you play different notes at the same position, the old version would be discarded.
3) Not an suggestion but more of a question: Is there a way to undo all that was recorded and restart recording from the beginning. Otherwise you have to stop, delete new notes move play cursor to beginning and press record. Would be cool to put that action on a foot pedal or something.
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Old 03-02-2017, 04:32 AM   #26
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CTRL + Z (UNDO) is your best friend.
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Old 03-04-2017, 01:09 AM   #27
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Quote:
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CTRL + Z (UNDO) is your best friend.
You're absolutely right, I feel stupid I missed that.

I created a custom action:

Transport: Stop
Edit: Undo
Transport: Record

This doesn't work. When I hit the button while recording the undo action seems to recall a much older state. Lot's of confusion.
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Old 03-04-2017, 01:44 AM   #28
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This doesn't work. When I hit the button while recording the undo action seems to recall a much older state. Lot's of confusion.
It works perfectly here. How do you use this action? Do you use toolbar button or shortcut for it? If you use Action list and press Spacebar, it will run the action, not stop the recording.
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Old 03-04-2017, 03:08 AM   #29
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There's a stop recording command that also "discards" the recording which is probably better to use than undo.

Also, there's an action that can be toggled that allows you to choose whether the edit cursor resets to the same position after record or moves to the last position when stopping record. I've forgotten it's name but could look later when I'm in front of reaper
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Old 03-04-2017, 08:26 AM   #30
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There's a stop recording command that also "discards" the recording which is probably better to use than undo.

Also, there's an action that can be toggled that allows you to choose whether the edit cursor resets to the same position after record or moves to the last position when stopping record. I've forgotten it's name but could look later when I'm in front of reaper
I searched in the action list for "Stop recording" but I can see no action where it discards the recording. I have SWS installed. Could you name the mentioned action?
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:53 AM   #31
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I searched in the action list for "Stop recording" but I can see no action where it discards the recording. I have SWS installed. Could you name the mentioned action?
It's called "Transport: Stop (DELETE all recorded media)".

also, the other one is called "SWS: Toggle move cursor to end of recorded media on stop" and should toggle the actual reaper preference for this so put it on a toolbar button maybe.

Quite handy to choose whether you want to record one thing after the other or want to record from the same place every time.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:22 AM   #32
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It's called "Transport: Stop (DELETE all recorded media)".
Thank you!
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:34 AM   #33
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@vitalker
I don't quite understand your question. I created a custom action and bound a keyboard shortcut to it. I tried it once again, the undo action even deleted a track I created before.

@musicbynumbers
I know about the action "Stop (DELETE all recorded media") and it woks fine in TCP but I can't get it to work in the MIDI editor. I used "Pass key through to main window" and it messes everything up.

I've decided to do it in two separate steps. First undo and then record. It works this way. As soon as you put it together in one action you get problems.

Cheers & thanks for your help guys
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Old 03-07-2017, 02:05 AM   #34
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@vitalker
I don't quite understand your question. I created a custom action and bound a keyboard shortcut to it. I tried it once again, the undo action even deleted a track I created before.
Ah, ok. You didn't write you use it in Midi editor. Well, I've just tried it in midi editor and it works as expected. I think it's something wrong from your side.
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Old 03-07-2017, 02:17 AM   #35
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Potentially it might be the MIDI record method (overwrite or replace) that for some reason is not supported properly.

Maybe try all of them and see if any of them work.

You might have found a bug
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Old 03-07-2017, 02:19 AM   #36
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Ah, ok. You didn't write you use it in Midi editor. Well, I've just tried it in midi editor and it works as expected. I think it's something wrong from your side.
Hmmm, which REAPER version are you using? I'm on v5.35.
How can you do something different?
I created a custom action:
Transport: Stop
Edit: Undo
Transport: Record
This does not work in TCP either. Do you constantly use this action? Because it does seem to work for the first 3-4 times. Then suddenly items you deleted just before are coming back or tracks you created before are gone etc...
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Old 03-07-2017, 02:27 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by mucknog View Post
This does not work in TCP either. Do you constantly use this action? Because it does seem to work for the first 3-4 times. Then suddenly items you deleted just before are coming back or tracks you created before are gone etc...
You use it for Midi touch-replace, right? I'm on 5.35 either. Could you please show us how are you using it? With all the actions you do. It works for me everywhere. I've created the same action. Ah, I think I know what is your mistake. Did you check "Consolidate undo points" for this custom action? If no, do it immediately.
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Old 03-07-2017, 02:51 AM   #38
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You use it for Midi touch-replace, right? I'm on 5.35 either. Could you please show us how are you using it? With all the actions you do. It works for me everywhere. I've created the same action. Ah, I think I know what is your mistake. Did you check "Consolidate undo points" for this custom action? If no, do it immediately.
Good news, I found my mistake Thank you for pushing me to look into it once more...
One thing you absolutely should not do when using "Edit: Undo" in a custom action is to consolidate undo points. I alway use consolidate undo in my custom actions so I activated it by default without thinking about the implications. So I don't really know if this is a bug or just my stupidity
I'm happy
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Old 03-07-2017, 03:06 AM   #39
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Good news, I found my mistake Thank you for pushing me to look into it once more...
You are welcome.
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