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08-04-2011, 12:21 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 456
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Geddy Lee - bass tone test
I've been working on getting a Geddy Lee tone for a cover of Red Barchetta and it's a bit harder than I thought it would be.
My Ibanez SR500 wasn't sounding right so I dusted off an old Fender J Bass and put new DiMarzio Area J pups (super quiet) and Rotosound steel strings on it.
Here is the latest experiment Version 6:
Peavey T-40 Bass with new DR High Beam strings
http://www.box.net/shared/tlyb5rzq3v3bl45fv943
Version 5
Peavey T-40 Bass with new DR High Beam Strings
http://www.box.net/shared/0mi77s5qullge72xsgnv
Fender J Bass MiM Version 4
http://www.box.net/shared/pv14pxk8l6kevamelarb
All input welcome...
Last edited by ScalerWave; 08-07-2011 at 09:29 AM.
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08-04-2011, 12:23 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,598
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Sounds darn good to me.... nice playing on your part as well.
Jedi
__________________
I'm simply no longer here
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08-04-2011, 12:45 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A place that allows me to protect myself...
Posts: 8,245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi
Sounds darn good to me.... nice playing on your part as well.
Jedi
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Ditto that ^^^ ...
I don't have the best speakers to listen on at the moment but the 'bite' and 'roundness' seems to be there.
Cool stuff... HUGE Rush fan here...
D
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08-04-2011, 03:19 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 283
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Dude !
How'd you get Geddy to sing on your demo ? :d
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08-04-2011, 03:37 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,890
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too much overdrive. geddy's sounds like 'natural' overdrive in other words velocity sensitive. the harder he plays, the more fuzz is heard, and that fuzz tapers off on the decay of the instrument. that seems to be the problem with most digital overdrives, they don't have a velocity curve.
i know what its like to copy songs, its like building a model airplane or playing with model trains. been there.
but the best way to go i think is to go back to the seventies and get ready to chain smoke and do lots of drugs when theres time, crash out in front of the console. (just a wild guess lol)
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08-04-2011, 03:57 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,630
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Okay, you've passed the first part of the test. Now let me hear you say: "Hello Toronto!" That's the one that separates the men from the boys, er, the Geddys from the...well, the non-Geddys.
But seriously, you've done a great job with that sound. Neil seems a little "off" today though.
[My opinion is based upon being a fan of the band and the song. I'm sure that a diehard bassophile might notice some nuances that I don't. I think it sounds pretty damn close.]
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08-04-2011, 04:50 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,025
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Pretty damn close! I was just A/B ing with the original and I think it sounds great. It is really hard to tell if it is exact without the guitars interacting with the bass, but the little bits where the bass is a little more exposed in the original sound great.
You are the master of the lift, so it's expected that you get it pretty much perfect.
Nice! Looking forward to hearing the finished version.
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08-05-2011, 06:39 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 456
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Thanx for the input everyone
Ted, Geddy stopped over for lunch and we got talking about my demo
Kundalinguist, I'm not sure what happened to Neil ... ok ok they're midi for now. I have a drummer working on live tracks though.
Reapercurious, I do agree that it is a touch overdriven but that's just because Geddy didn't add enough drive to his setting heh heh
Kev, thanx man, I appreciate the in depth analysis. I wish I had a Wal to play or a nice Rick but eh... such is life. I almost bought a Geddy J Bass and still may get it... not sure. You're right about the mix with the guitar tracks added... no doubt there will be some tweakin to be done.
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08-05-2011, 10:06 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,388
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Here's a link to the original bass sound from the album to compare to...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3594604/Reap...0RB%20Bass.mp3
It seems like you are pretty damn close to me. It's probably more to do with your fingers and how he plays and where on the bass with his right hand than you would think at this point. It seems like you are compressing heavily like him also, I'm surprised at how much low end is taken out of the original bass line and it sounds awesome. I think you carved more mids out than his and maybe that would help. I doubt a different bass would help an awful ton honestly.
I think it's funny...sounds like Geddy hit a wrong note at 2:30/2:31. Too cool... Maybe I'll try a Geddy Lee tone later...this could be fun, BASS PLAYERS UNITE.
Last edited by camerondye; 08-05-2011 at 10:11 AM.
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08-05-2011, 09:15 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camerondye
Here's a link to the original bass sound from the album to compare to...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3594604/Reap...0RB%20Bass.mp3
I think it's funny...sounds like Geddy hit a wrong note at 2:30/2:31. Too cool... Maybe I'll try a Geddy Lee tone later...this could be fun, BASS PLAYERS UNITE.
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Lots of fret buzz 5:20-5:33. Heard the tune a million times but never noticed that. Thanks for sharing that - making me realize to not sweat the small stuff...
(got a link for YYZ? )
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08-05-2011, 09:18 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 456
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I have iso tracks to the whole Moving Pictures album in Mogg format.
If you're interested and I can upload it.
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08-05-2011, 09:23 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 456
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Man, once again I am overcome by gear lust....
Just bought a T-40 plain wood version in excellent condition... comes with molded case also in great condition.
Found it local too. I pick it up Saturday.
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08-05-2011, 09:26 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScalerWave
I have iso tracks to the whole Moving Pictures album in Mogg format.
If you're interested and I can upload it.
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Yes!
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08-05-2011, 09:47 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jellotree
Yes!
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Here it is:
Moving Pictures: Isolated tracks
http://www.sendspace.com/file/hcvzn6
.
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08-05-2011, 09:57 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 238
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Thanks. Downloading now...while listening to Dam That River...like it...
EDIT Got it. Thanks mate! Gonna be analyzing this for weeks...have fun with the Peavey...
Last edited by jellotree; 08-05-2011 at 11:21 PM.
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08-06-2011, 03:03 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East London
Posts: 1,719
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I think Cameron has it spot on. The original is just a bit more compact. I guess in a busy song with a busy bass line you have got to think that the compactness lends to the clarity of the track.
Great tone SW however close it is to the original
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08-06-2011, 11:51 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScalerWave
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Would like to get these tracks, but I had to download some kind of "codec" which installed unwanted toolbars, redirected my homepage, etc. Spent the last few minutes getting rid of it all. Is there a way to just download the files?
Bass tone sounds great. I agree with one comment that said it was a bit too distorted. But I think you're 99% there. I saw Rush when they had only two or three albums out. They were opening for Blue Oyster Cult. I thought Rush stole the show.
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08-06-2011, 12:12 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 456
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Just click where it says "Click here to Download from Sendspace" and the download window should open right up.
The files are in Mogg format but just load them into Reaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer
Would like to get these tracks, but I had to download some kind of "codec" which installed unwanted toolbars, redirected my homepage, etc. Spent the last few minutes getting rid of it all. Is there a way to just download the files?
Bass tone sounds great. I agree with one comment that said it was a bit too distorted. But I think you're 99% there. I saw Rush when they had only two or three albums out. They were opening for Blue Oyster Cult. I thought Rush stole the show.
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08-06-2011, 02:40 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 456
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Quest for Tone - Update
I picked up the Peavey T-40 bass today, got it home and fixed it up. The bridge pickup was broken so I fixed that and put new DR HiBeam strings on it. The frets were tarnished so I shined them up and buffed the pick guard.
I tweaked the tone to get as close to a Rick 4003 sound as possible... lightened up on the overdrive and cranked the mids a bit...still going thru Gearbox.
http://www.box.net/shared/0mi77s5qullge72xsgnv
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08-06-2011, 03:27 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,388
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I think you've made it really close to Geddy's current tone but not the one on MP. The T-40 seems to be closer, I'm surprised of that but it seems to have something closer to what you are going for. I think you also played it better on the T-40. Not sure if it's the bass or just luck but it seems a bit more energetic.
I just analyzed the Geddy Lee played line and his bass sound rolls off the highs starting out at right around 2.8khz and yours pretty much seems to have to whole highend ball of wax and maybe then some. Roll off the highs and see if that gets you better in the ballpark.
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08-06-2011, 06:53 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 456
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Yeah, I'm liking this T-40...strange to find someone local selling one. Too bad it wasn't the black model.
Ok, I rolled off the highs and tweaked a few other freqs. There is an airy quality to his tone that I have been wondering about... I added something this time to try and emulate that too.
See if you can hear what I'm talking about.
For this mix, I just played with the ISO tracks and muted Geddy's bass. This way you can gauge the mix of the tone better.
I really appreciate the extra ears man.
Version 6 - T-40 bass
http://www.box.net/shared/tlyb5rzq3v3bl45fv943
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08-06-2011, 10:46 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScalerWave
Just click where it says "Click here to Download from Sendspace" and the download window should open right up.
The files are in Mogg format but just load them into Reaper.
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Thanks! I got a different web page this time. Similar, but buttons in different places and a few other "re-arrangements." Found the one you mentioned.
I've used Mogg before in Reaper and, yeah, worked fine.
That tone you're getting is sounding mighty good!
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08-07-2011, 12:23 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScalerWave
Yeah, I'm liking this T-40...strange to find someone local selling one. Too bad it wasn't the black model.
Ok, I rolled off the highs and tweaked a few other freqs. There is an airy quality to his tone that I have been wondering about... I added something this time to try and emulate that too.
See if you can hear what I'm talking about.
For this mix, I just played with the ISO tracks and muted Geddy's bass. This way you can gauge the mix of the tone better.
I really appreciate the extra ears man.
Version 6 - T-40 bass
http://www.box.net/shared/tlyb5rzq3v3bl45fv943
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Oh Yeah ! I really like that tone.
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08-07-2011, 01:51 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,388
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It's hard to tell how close it is to the original now because it's so loud in the mix, sad enough, but I'm guessing it's pretty close. Playing it well and like he did is a big part of it and you've done a good job on that too.
cam
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08-07-2011, 03:37 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 14,303
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Damn good playing there Jim, and singing is superb as usual.
FWIW, I don't know the song and know very little of Geddy Lee, anyway you asked so I'll say my piece.
It's kinda hard to tell as the bass is loud on all tracks but I'd say I like the J bass best as a tone, and in isolation but the first one sounds much the best in the mix.
The other one sounded far too loud to tell, but it may well sound just as good in the mix at a lower level.
although I liked the J bass best I felt it was a bit too deep to achieve what I think you are aiming for so I'll go for the first track
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The grass is greener where it rains
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08-07-2011, 04:37 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood
It's kinda hard to tell as the bass is loud on all tracks but I'd say I like the J bass best as a tone, and in isolation but the first one sounds much the best in the mix.
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You think it sounds like a better tone or more like the Geddy tone on my earlier post (#9)??? He's trying to match the sound Geddy Lee got on the album not necessarily the best tone on this one.
BTW - I was reading an article about an hour ago around the time Geddy put out his solo album and he said Tom Sawyer was on the Jazz but Red Barchetta was on the Ric...I thought the whole album was jazz bass (wrongly).
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08-07-2011, 05:51 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 14,303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camerondye
You think it sounds like a better tone or more like the Geddy tone on my earlier post (#9)??? He's trying to match the sound Geddy Lee got on the album not necessarily the best tone on this one.
BTW - I was reading an article about an hour ago around the time Geddy put out his solo album and he said Tom Sawyer was on the Jazz but Red Barchetta was on the Ric...I thought the whole album was jazz bass (wrongly).
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Like i said, I don't know the song and am unfamiliar with Geddy Lee, so you have to take my comments with a large dose of salt.
My opinion was as stated, I thought it was important that the bass sat in the mix, and although I preferred the sound of the J bass I didn't think it sat so well in the mix.
I thought the first one sounded best in the mix, but that could all change if the levels changed.
Out of everything I heard I might try just tweaking the J bass. If he has a HPF on it I might try it a little higher with a wide curve and see how that sounds, but take no notice of me - I'm not even a bass player
It is said the bass is the hardest thing to get just right. I think it depends. I find acoustic guitar the hardest, but I play acoustic guitar a lot, so I would think that
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The grass is greener where it rains
Last edited by Tedwood; 08-07-2011 at 06:03 PM.
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08-07-2011, 06:58 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 456
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Tedwood - Thanks the input, Geddy just has this characteristic bass tone that sets it apart. Just the right amount of everything in it. Even with different basses, he gets similar sounding tones. The reason the bass track is louder is because I thought it would make it easy to analyze the tone as it sat in the mix. In version 6, all the parts are original isolated tracks from the studio recording except of course the bass track which I replaced. For this particular song I was going for Rickenbacker type of tone similar to what he used in the recording.
Cam - I could mix a version with the bass blended into the mix. Louder just worked better for me. I read something similar about the Rickenbacker in Red Barchetta. That's why I switched from using the Fender to the T-40. I'm still amazed at the quality workmanship in this bass...especially compared to the Fender. The T-40 is a Cadillac of an instrument... even weighs as much as one heh heh.
A lot of the fun in doing these collab projects is analyzing the song under a microscope.
TedR - thx dude
Mixer - glad you got the download problem solved.
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08-07-2011, 07:50 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood
It is said the bass is the hardest thing to get just right. I think it depends. I find acoustic guitar the hardest, but I play acoustic guitar a lot, so I would think that
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Interesting. Spending a lot of time with drums, I find the snare sound hardest to get just right. It can change the whole character of the song.
In reality, everything matters in a mix, I guess, and takes effort to get just right. That's why Rush sounds like Rush, and (insert name here) sounds like (insert same name here).
Except these guys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_Kth...eature=related
Not sure what mixing principles are being applied here.
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08-08-2011, 08:56 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 238
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What Gearbox settings/preset are you using? Sounds great.
I think the T-40 is almost there, but needs to be low passed somewhat as has been previously mentioned. There;s something in the T-40 bottom end that seems better, but I can't exactly define it.
Peavey has had a bad rap for much of their stuff for years, but they've made quality stuff for years. I don't know if the trend to build product overseas will change that though.
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08-08-2011, 10:13 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,157
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nice job! My fav is the Fender J. A tad less overdrive will get it closer IMO if you must but I think it sounds great as is.
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08-08-2011, 10:32 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,331
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wow, cool tone. I agree it seems a bit too overdriven, but if it was lowered in the mix it might "fit" better.
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08-09-2011, 08:04 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 456
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Thanks fellas. Either of you have a Rick 4003 you could lend me?
Jellotree - I attached the pre set file that I used. I had to add .txt to the end so it would let me upload.
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08-09-2011, 02:51 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 399
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I guess you already considered this, but just in case:
Geddy's Rickenbacker 4001 had separate outs for each pickup, and Wikipedia says, in part: "The neck pick-up was sent to one amp and set for a clean, bass-heavy tone ... while the bridge pick-up was sent to the other amp ... with an exaggerated treble boost, and extra gain in the preamp..."
Later on, he split the mono output of other basses and still ran through two amp chains.
Geddy also plays kind of hard and wild, with fingers flying.
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08-10-2011, 09:53 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 297
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Hi. Sounds really good! Enjoyed your performance as well. Thanks for sharing.
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08-14-2011, 07:10 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScalerWave
Jellotree - I attached the pre set file that I used. I had to add .txt to the end so it would let me upload.
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Thanks Scaler. I took out the .txt, leaving it as a .l6t file, copied the Line 6 Tone into my Gearbox preset folder, but it doesn't recognize that patch - 'unsupported patch type'. Any ideas to get it recognized?
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09-03-2011, 02:42 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 456
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Not sure why it didn't work. It seems to work both in POD Farm and Gearbox.
I could try mailing it to ya.
Sorry for the delayed reply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellotree
Thanks Scaler. I took out the .txt, leaving it as a .l6t file, copied the Line 6 Tone into my Gearbox preset folder, but it doesn't recognize that patch - 'unsupported patch type'. Any ideas to get it recognized?
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12-13-2011, 01:26 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 10
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One other observation. It sounds like you are using a pick. Geddy uses his fingers. Part of the distortion that Ged gets is from how he slaps down on the string. He got a lot of classic Ric sounds that way (Cygnus, etc)
That is an amazing sound you got from that T-40. I had a 4003 years ago with the Ric-O-Sound through 2 amps. It was amazing. Your playing is very good and Barchetta was the first Rush song I fell in love with in 5th grade.
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