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Old 11-23-2015, 06:07 PM   #41
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Yeah, Reverberate 2 really has me interested but it's beyond my range right now, even though I'm sure it's worth it. Modulation is where it's at and plain old convolution reverbs do sound static, although that's not always a bad thing.
Reflektor is much more flexible & powerful than the likes of ReaVerb:

http://www.native-instruments.com/en...cts/reflektor/
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Old 11-23-2015, 06:10 PM   #42
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It can perfectly emulate the sound of high-end, expensive digital reverb units
How is that possible?
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Old 11-23-2015, 06:13 PM   #43
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Yeah, Reverberate 2 really has me interested but it's beyond my range right now, even though I'm sure it's worth it. Modulation is where it's at and plain old convolution reverbs do sound static, although that's not always a bad thing.
Yeah, I find for short room reverb it's okay, but for longer decays, especially plates and springs, they lack life.
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Old 11-23-2015, 06:14 PM   #44
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How is that possible?
It's not

Nebula is probably closest to being able to make that claim.
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Old 11-23-2015, 06:18 PM   #45
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I've heard a lot about Nebula on this forum but haven't looked into it in a long while. It's actually a bit less expensive than I was thinking.
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Old 11-23-2015, 06:28 PM   #46
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I've heard a lot about Nebula on this forum but haven't looked into it in a long while. It's actually a bit less expensive than I was thinking.
I used the free version quite a lot a few years ago, but it's a rabbit hole I'm wary of going down...
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Old 11-23-2015, 06:54 PM   #47
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You guys are killing me !!

Hey! I have a reasonable sense of 'different tools for different jobs', but in a toolbox of high quality 'tools' Tsar 1R either belongs or not ....

I already have the Softube setup ready & justified it on merits of Saturation Knob alone. Was ready to hit 'BUY' on Sweetwater and then the posts went all squishy

Also have Reflektor, Reverberate LE, and all Vallhalla Demos.
Tsar 1R is either a solid incremental addition or not ... right? Is it ??

Juz pullin yur chains, but c'mon ...
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Too late ! Snatched it NI good ones are Softube ... aren't they?

Last edited by sostenuto; 11-23-2015 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:52 PM   #48
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Let me add the Native Instruments reverbs to this discussion...

http://www.native-instruments.com/en...verb-classics/.

I like these also. If interested watch Native Instruments website for Black Friday mayhem.



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Old 11-23-2015, 10:12 PM   #49
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New from Boz. I helped test it, and it's awesome.
http://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/manic-compressor/
"Built for Abuse

With Manic Compressors innovative parallel design and Loudness Relief, this compressor was built to be abused. Subtle compression is a thing of that past (unless you want it, of course). Manic compressor lets you put your settings to MAXIMUM CARNAGE and then ease it off with it’s unique Loudness Relief knob, which softens the compression artifacts even under super heavy load."

This is a fantastic description and i'm gonna buy just because I'm always a big fan of maximum carnage.
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:56 AM   #50
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Valhalla Plate came out this past week and it's $50 all day every day which is a great deal.
I only got to play with it for an hour or so today with guitar but I liked what I heard.
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:15 AM   #51
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Comparing Valhalla Room to TSAR 1R

TSAR1R is far less adjustable in terms of settings.

It also has far less patches/presets than any of the Valhalla reverbs. However you can cycle through them in the Reaper preset/patch window with the mouse wheel, unlike Valhalla.
However it simply sounds good so this will appeal to people and times when you don't want options, you just want a sound that you know.

It has a small GUI, a little dated simply by the size, but due to simplicity it won't matter unless using a very high res monitor such as a 4k model.

The balance in Valhalla reverbs tends to need to be immediately turned down (since they are super wet) to get a realistic sound. If anything the Softube product is the other way. You can increase the wet to dry ratio and still have a realistic balance on many patches.

Valhalla typically colours the sound more, this TSAR 1R is more lean with perhaps less soundstage depth effect (but make no mistake you can go for the cavern effect too with adjustment) but also less coloration, perhaps closer to IR hall reverbs (those from real halls) but not quite as realistic as an IR convolution.

From immediate settings (and even after adjusting wet balance down)Valhalla changes the sample or the synth more than the softube product, but it does so in a pleasing way, it's more coloured but pleasing. Whatever the preset and whatever I do with the settings Softube is crisper and clearer but less characterful. So both have their place.

Thanks very much for taking the time to compare and share your findings and opinions.

I already have the Valhalla Room, Lexicon LXP, reverberate LE and UAD Plate verbs but sometimes I just want to something quick and easy with quality to use and this sounds exactly what I am looking for.

After demoing for a short time this morning on an already finished mix TSAR 1R fits in very nicely with the sound and with my workflow.
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:18 AM   #52
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Valhalla Plate came out this past week and it's $50 all day every day which is a great deal.
I only got to play with it for an hour or so today with guitar but I liked what I heard.
Do you by any chance have the UAD Plate? I'm looking to replace my UAD plugs for Native alternatives. I already own Valhalla Room and Shimmer and know that they are great quality plugins. If Valhalla Plate is as good as those then I'm sure it will be ace!

I'll demo as usual but it's always nice to get some extra user info.
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Old 11-24-2015, 03:22 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders quoting NI marketing men
It can perfectly emulate the sound of high-end, expensive digital reverb units
I wouldn't like to speculate which was which in a blind test, but I don't claim perfection for any of the software reverbs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JHughes View Post
How is that possible?
I only gave you the link so you could listen to the video and audio demo's and see what it can do. I'm not making any claims about its accuracy.
What I will say is that if I had to choose only one reverb of the ones I have tried it would be reflector, without question.
Happily we do not have to choose in the plugin world. I'm hearing good things in a many different reverbs.
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Old 11-24-2015, 03:26 AM   #54
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You guys are killing me !!

Hey! I have a reasonable sense of 'different tools for different jobs', but in a toolbox of high quality 'tools' Tsar 1R either belongs or not ....

I already have the Softube setup ready & justified it on merits of Saturation Knob alone. Was ready to hit 'BUY' on Sweetwater and then the posts went all squishy

Also have Reflektor, Reverberate LE, and all Vallhalla Demos.
Tsar 1R is either a solid incremental addition or not ... right? Is it ??

Juz pullin yur chains, but c'mon ...
------------------------------------------------

Too late ! Snatched it NI good ones are Softube ... aren't they?
If I had to pick one, I've already given my answer.
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Old 11-24-2015, 03:28 AM   #55
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Thanks very much for taking the time to compare and share your findings and opinions.

I already have the Valhalla Room, Lexicon LXP, reverberate LE and UAD Plate verbs but sometimes I just want to something quick and easy with quality to use and this sounds exactly what I am looking for.

After demoing for a short time this morning on an already finished mix TSAR 1R fits in very nicely with the sound and with my workflow.
Glad it was useful.
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Old 11-24-2015, 09:53 AM   #56
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Do you by any chance have the UAD Plate? I'm looking to replace my UAD plugs for Native alternatives. I already own Valhalla Room and Shimmer and know that they are great quality plugins. If Valhalla Plate is as good as those then I'm sure it will be ace!

I'll demo as usual but it's always nice to get some extra user info.
haven't been able to use my UAD-1 card since 2011. No idea how the plate sounds now. The appearance of those plugins really makes it hard to be objective.

Valhalla Room is my go-to and works for me pretty much every time. I have so many other options that I have to force myself to use the others.

Pre and post processing and the input level are the most important things for my reverbs, all of which are outside the actual verb.
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Old 11-24-2015, 10:30 AM   #57
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haven't been able to use my UAD-1 card since 2011. No idea how the plate sounds now. The appearance of those plugins really makes it hard to be objective.

Valhalla Room is my go-to and works for me pretty much every time. I have so many other options that I have to force myself to use the others.

Pre and post processing and the input level are the most important things for my reverbs, all of which are outside the actual verb.
Thought I'd take a look over at the UAD forum and the general consensus was that they thought it was more HiFi lush sounding compared to the more gritty UAD version.

A few of them said they'd buy it to run alongside the UAD version for a different flavour.

I read that Sean Costello, the brains behind Valhalla, based his plate reverb on the 140.
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Old 11-24-2015, 11:02 AM   #58
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Do you by any chance have the UAD Plate? I'm looking to replace my UAD plugs for Native alternatives. I already own Valhalla Room and Shimmer and know that they are great quality plugins. If Valhalla Plate is as good as those then I'm sure it will be ace!

I'll demo as usual but it's always nice to get some extra user info.
I dont have UAD but there's a thread over a gearslutz where they are comparing them. Seems to be split with a few saying the UAD 140 has its own sound that valahalla cant replace. Other folks prefer valhalla plate.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-...ble-now-9.html

I bought it and I think its fantastic. By far the best native plate verb I have tried and it has a ton of variation by using all the different modes. Some modes do a chamber verb sound so it seeems MUCH more versatile than the UAD which apparently gives you 3 variations on one plate.
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Old 11-24-2015, 11:04 AM   #59
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Thought I'd take a look over at the UAD forum and the general consensus was that they thought it was more HiFi lush sounding compared to the more gritty UAD version.

A few of them said they'd buy it to run alongside the UAD version for a different flavour.

I read that Sean Costello, the brains behind Valhalla, based his plate reverb on the 140.
The cobalt mode was specifically based on the emt 140 at a particular Seattle studio used on some famous record whose name escapes me right now. Its all in the thread at GS.
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Old 11-24-2015, 11:17 AM   #60
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Reverberate 2.0 interesting, didn't know about that one. Cheers.
Reverberate 2 with the Bricasti ir's is fantastic.
Also Soundtoys and Exponential Audio are having sales. Excalibur and R2 from Exponential are killer imo.
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Old 11-24-2015, 11:24 AM   #61
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The cobalt mode was specifically based on the emt 140 at a particular Seattle studio used on some famous record whose name escapes me right now. Its all in the thread at GS.
That's my favorite algo for guitar.

Sean put a bunch of blog posts up with details on the plugin but I haven't read them yet, just bookmarked.
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Old 11-24-2015, 11:42 AM   #62
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The cobalt mode was specifically based on the emt 140 at a particular Seattle studio used on some famous record whose name escapes me right now. Its all in the thread at GS.
Avast Recording. They have 2 EMT140 reverbs. The one we worked with was used on the Fleet Foxes recordings. Which is a sound you either love or hate. Personally, I LOVE the reverb sound on those records.

Sean Costello
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:08 PM   #63
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I bought it and I think its fantasSome modes do a chamber verb sound so it seeems MUCH more versatile than the UAD which apparently gives you 3 variations on one plate.
It also does a surprisingly good room ambience; lots of spacial depth to it.

Definitely not a one-trick pony.
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:34 PM   #64
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Avast Recording. They have 2 EMT140 reverbs. The one we worked with was used on the Fleet Foxes recordings. Which is a sound you either love or hate. Personally, I LOVE the reverb sound on those records.

Sean Costello
Sorry Sean, as this is a thread about Black Friday you're not allowed to post here as you don't do Black Fridays lol

Seriously though, thanks very much for taking the time to post.

The general consensus across various forums seems to be that the Valhalla Plate is much more lush and offers many more options than the UAD Plate140.
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:00 PM   #65
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Sorry Sean, as this is a thread about Black Friday you're not allowed to post here as you don't do Black Fridays lol
Every Day Is Black Friday At Valhalla DSP!™
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:03 PM   #66
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Every Day Is Black Friday At Valhalla DSP!™
Broad Q, but with my NI Reflektor and Softube Tsar-1R, WHICH Valhalla minimizes 'overlap' ? ... enriches my current Reverb tool box most?

Last edited by sostenuto; 11-24-2015 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:04 PM   #67
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Broad Q...
Nice pun for an audio forum

EDIT: but in response to your question, I'd say if you don't know which reverb would compliment the ones you already have, then spend time really digging into your tools so that it becomes obvious to you.

Valhalla reverbs aren't going to disappear overnight
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:11 PM   #68
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Broad Q, but with my NI Reflektor and Softube Tsar-1R, which Valhalla minimizes 'overlap' ? ... enriches my Reverb tool box?
Both of these are nice reverbs. I haven't played with TSAR-1R, but the full fledged version has a good sound and is easy to use. I was doing some A/Bing with Reflektor in Don Gunn's studio yesterday, and it has a nice sound. In theory, convolution reverbs shouldn't have "a sound." In practice, some convolutions have impulse response libraries that sound kinda metallic. Reflektor seems better with regards to this.

I'd recommend something modulated, which is pretty much any of my reverbs. I think that ValhallaRoom is closer in sound to the TSAR-1, and ValhallaShimmer is more of a specialist ambient / electronic reverb. So ValhallaVintageVerb and/or ValhallaPlate would be my first suggestions. These reverbs have the most "open" sound of anything I have done (especially Smooth Plate in VintageVerb, and the Copper & Unobtanium modes in ValhallaPlate), and would complement your existing reverbs nicely, in my completely biased opinion.

Sean Costello
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:12 PM   #69
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Every Day Is Black Friday At Valhalla DSP!™
Booooom....you kicked my ass with your Cobalt boot!!!
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:26 PM   #70
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Both of these are nice reverbs. I haven't played with TSAR-1R, but the full fledged version has a good sound and is easy to use. I was doing some A/Bing with Reflektor in Don Gunn's studio yesterday, and it has a nice sound. In theory, convolution reverbs shouldn't have "a sound." In practice, some convolutions have impulse response libraries that sound kinda metallic. Reflektor seems better with regards to this.

I'd recommend something modulated, which is pretty much any of my reverbs. I think that ValhallaRoom is closer in sound to the TSAR-1, and ValhallaShimmer is more of a specialist ambient / electronic reverb. So ValhallaVintageVerb and/or ValhallaPlate would be my first suggestions. These reverbs have the most "open" sound of anything I have done (especially Smooth Plate in VintageVerb, and the Copper & Unobtanium modes in ValhallaPlate), and would complement your existing reverbs nicely, in my completely biased opinion.

Sean Costello
Great Reply !! Will go back through my Demos and prioritize. Not restricting addition(s) to (1), just not at same time. VVV is so respected, easy choice. Current enthusiasm for Plate is infectious. I think I'm all set

Many thanks,
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:27 PM   #71
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Reverberate 2 with the Bricasti ir's is fantastic.
Also Soundtoys and Exponential Audio are having sales. Excalibur and R2 from Exponential are killer imo.
I like using Bricasti IR with Reflektor too. Along with a real room convolution before it.

Also combinations of Tsar1R and Reflektor are producing nice results too.
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:30 PM   #72
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I wouldn't like to speculate which was which in a blind test, but I don't claim perfection for any of the software reverbs.




I only gave you the link so you could listen to the video and audio demo's and see what it can do. I'm not making any claims about its accuracy.
What I will say is that if I had to choose only one reverb of the ones I have tried it would be reflector, without question.
Happily we do not have to choose in the plugin world. I'm hearing good things in a many different reverbs.
Don't really see that a digital system like a computer couldn't duplicate a standalone digital system like a digital reverb. ultimately they're both zeros and ones, it's just a different box doing the calculations in the case of a standalone unit. And math is math.

Unless of course there is some kind of patented code that can't legally be duplicated in a VST or there's something wrong with the conversion; or really colorful input/ouput transformers or a tube makeup gain on the hardware boxes. That kind of stuff is hard to duplicate in digital.

Last edited by Bristol Posse; 11-24-2015 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:39 PM   #73
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Synthmaster 50% off.

http://www.kv331audio.com/
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:39 PM   #74
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@BP one post above^^
I think the point is that a convolution reverb has no idea of the modulation stuff happening in an algorithmic reverb it is attempting to emulate, since the impulse responses are static moments in time. Therefore it's impossible to duplicate an AR with a CR.
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:51 PM   #75
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Synthmaster 50% off.

http://www.kv331audio.com/
One of my go-to synths, that's a great deal on the factory & standard editions
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:09 PM   #76
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Don't really see that a digital system like a computer couldn't duplicate a standalone digital system like a digital reverb. ultimately they're both zeros and ones, it's just a different box doing the calculations in the case of a standalone unit. And math is math.

Unless of course there is some kind of patented code that can't legally be duplicated in a VST or there's something wrong with the conversion; or really colorful input/ouput transformers or a tube makeup gain on the hardware boxes. That kind of stuff is hard to duplicate in digital.
All I'm saying is that I don't make any claims in that regard. Nonetheless it is an extremely satisfying product once you get Guitar Rig to open as standard in stereo mode.


With the right programmers, efficient code and enough processing muscle to do the job I believe you could emulate absolutely every digital hardware box to extremely satisfying/indistinguishable degree. Even weird stuff like the nonstandard Synclavier is probably doable, if you wanted to recreate it's unique dated coloration you would just have to find a different way of achieving it through CPU number crunching. Perhaps something for U-HE to get their teeth into, if enough people lust after Synclavier.
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:12 PM   #77
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Anyone do the Izotope Breaktweaker Expanded deal at $99. (from $299.) thru Dec 31 ??

Saw Pluginguru BT Library announcement. so total of $150. seems to offer a lot.
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:17 PM   #78
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@BP one post above^^
I think the point is that a convolution reverb has no idea of the modulation stuff happening in an algorithmic reverb it is attempting to emulate, since the impulse responses are static moments in time. Therefore it's impossible to duplicate an AR with a CR.
Capturing the effect or sound of that AR reverb it is a fixed snapshot, for manipulation in the convolution engine. Since you can change the sound in Reflektor (it's not a rigid, fixed convolution reverb)then you can make good use of captured sounds from hardware algorithmic reverbs. Though as a form of sample it is fixed to a certain degree like the recordings in a sample instrument. Question is in practice is it audible or more specifically audible to a significant degree, especially within the context of a piece of music?
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Old 11-24-2015, 03:13 PM   #79
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I bought MCDSP Futzbox today for $62.99 at AudioDeluxe. All McDSP plugins are on sale right now.
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Old 11-24-2015, 04:57 PM   #80
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The more I use it the more I appreciate the TSAR 1R reverb. It also plays very nicely when combined with Reflektor's convolution reverb. Although a combination of the two is obviously more expensive on CPU cycles, FX went up to about 8% (combined) from 5% (individually) on a single sample instrument with my i5 CPU when testing in a specific example. So still hardly a CPU killer.

Surprisingly the TSAR 1R is ever so slightly more CPU hungry than Reflektor, about 0.5% so really nothing much.

The way the dying echoes change depending on the tonality of the sound going into it using TSAR 1R is very appealing.
OTOH Reflektor is typically better at giving the impression of size and depth of a real space. Blending the two gives something of both. slightly reducing the benefit of each individually but combining to have some of the benefits of both and great for overblown Hollywood sound. Lovely.
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