Analog Sound

[andrew grove]

Has anyone got to recreate the peripheral and elusive sound of Analog yet? Thanks for the come back in advance. Keep it under 10,000$ hahahaha Andrew

[Lucian]

http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/...-the-kvr-dc09/

Give that a shot?...and it is free

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by Lucian

http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/...-the-kvr-dc09/

Give that a shot?...and it is free

It is awesome.

[Bristol Posse]

This works pretty well

[serr]

Originally Posted by andrew grove

Has anyone got to recreate the peripheral and elusive sound of Analog yet? Thanks for the come back in advance. Keep it under 10,000$ hahahaha Andrew

Analog sound?

There's just... sound.

You must mean - sound free from graininess or distortions from low resolution digital sampling. (Perhaps you've only ever heard low resolution digital? CD's really did give 'digital' a bad connotation.)

It's easy really. Digitize your analog signal at 24 bits 96kHz resolution and use a quality AD converter. Once you truly get your signal in the box still intact, you'll find you are working at that 'elusive' high end analog quality.

$10,000? No problem. You can get very nice mic preamps and analog to digital converters on that budget. These should be your big ticket items.

Now, release your masters in full quality. Make a portable (CD quality) copy as well for the folks with 30 year old stereos and iPods.

[richie43]

Originally Posted by andrew grove

Has anyone got to recreate the peripheral and elusive sound of Analog yet? Thanks for the come back in advance. Keep it under 10,000$ hahahaha Andrew

To my 47 year old formerly all analog audio ears, THIS is the closet I have heard in the ITB realm. But it is a dangerous but awesome rabbit-hole.......

[Sam C]

Here are a few ITB suggestions-
Waves -NLS
Waves -REDD
Waves- Kramer Tape
McDSP-Analog
Slate-VCC
Slate-tape
Tone booster-Reel Bus

[richie43]

If you don't want to go with the whole Nebula thing, there are the Aqua plugins, which use the same technology as Nebula but in stand-alone plugins. CDSoundmaster, Anologinthebox, and a few others have some. They are amazing. CDSM also has a non Aqua Virtual tape machine (VTM-M2) with will blow you away. This one pre-dates the Slate, in fact I think Slate has been accused of "borrowing" more than just a similar name to this.

[The Buddha Rats]

I really like combining the Satson channel plug with NLS on the Master. Not really trying to emulate anything in particular.

[brainwreck]

Originally Posted by Lucian

http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/...-the-kvr-dc09/

Give that a shot?...and it is free

That is the closest that I have heard to wide tape sound, itb. For the rest of the chain, I don't know - mostly bs, I think.

[andrew grove]

Originally Posted by serr

Analog sound?

There's just... sound.

You must mean - sound free from graininess or distortions from low resolution digital sampling. (Perhaps you've only ever heard low resolution digital? CD's really did give 'digital' a bad connotation.)

It's easy really. Digitize your analog signal at 24 bits 96kHz resolution and use a quality AD converter. Once you truly get your signal in the box still intact, you'll find you are working at that 'elusive' high end analog quality.

$10,000? No problem. You can get very nice mic preamps and analog to digital converters on that budget. These should be your big ticket items.

Now, release your masters in full quality. Make a portable (CD quality) copy as well for the folks with 30 year old stereos and iPods.

Hey just kidding with the 10,000$ and I'll try that, thanks

[andrew grove]

Originally Posted by richie43

If you don't want to go with the whole Nebula thing, there are the Aqua plugins, which use the same technology as Nebula but in stand-alone plugins. CDSoundmaster, Anologinthebox, and a few others have some. They are amazing. CDSM also has a non Aqua Virtual tape machine (VTM-M2) with will blow you away. This one pre-dates the Slate, in fact I think Slate has been accused of "borrowing" more than just a similar name to this.

This sounds good (no pun intended!)

[Stu]

SKnote StripBUS for console emulation and Toneboosters Reelbus does a pretty convincing job of rounding off transients and smoothing high frequencies.

[beingmf]

Originally Posted by Stu

SKnote StripBUS for console emulation and Toneboosters Reelbus does a pretty convincing job of rounding off transients and smoothing high frequencies.

Yeah – exactly, these 2 plus Nebula are killer killer killer!

[Stu]

Originally Posted by beingmf

Yeah – exactly, these 2 plus Nebula are killer killer killer!

I'd love to try Nebula but I'm holding back until I can upgrade my PC, I've tried a couple of Aqua plugins and can tell that getting Nebula at this point will only lead to frustration.

[richie43]

Originally Posted by Stu

I'd love to try Nebula but I'm holding back until I can upgrade my PC, I've tried a couple of Aqua plugins and can tell that getting Nebula at this point will only lead to frustration.

Wise........

[Bristol Posse]

Originally Posted by Stu

SKnote StripBUS for console emulation and Toneboosters Reelbus does a pretty convincing job of rounding off transients and smoothing high frequencies.

Out of curiosity how much noise and cross talk does Stripbus add to each channel?

from the description on the website it sounds like quite a lot. for a little experiment I sent a mix out to 8 Channels of hardware summing and then brought the stereo mix thorough a hardware two channel compressor well below the threshold so no compression happened and then recorded back into the DAW.

I then send the original mix through the converters and nothing else and recorded that so that both mixes had done one round trip through the RME

Levels were around -12 dBFS RMS with highest peak at -7.4 dBFS
I used a phase plugin to line up the two recorded signals
I then switched polarity on one of the mixes so that the only thing that would be audible would be the difference between the mix through just the converters and the mix that had gone through converters, 8 channels of summing and two channels through a compressor with no compression engaged.

That should be kind of similar to what stripbus is doing/adding to a mix with no processing engaged other than noise and crosstalk

The result of the experiment was this that resulted from potentially 10 channels of crosstalk and two sets of thermal noise from hardware processors and only the difference between the clean and noise/crosstalk mix is present
https://soundcloud.com/infinite-numb...ise-cross-talk
hopefully soundcloud can represent sounds with peaks around -65dBFS and RMS levels below -70dBFS

Bear in mind I am using fairly cheap gear vs the very high end consoles modeled in things like Stripbus, VCC etc so noise and crosstalk performance should be a lot better on a high end console model

Having used a couple of UAD plugins Like ATR Tape and seeing what they did to a signal adding a crazy amount of full frequency spectrum "Crosstalk" (real crosstalk is more prominent around 10k and even on a cheapish portable mixer should be down at around 0.004% @ 10K and is extremely signal dependent), I would guess they are overstating crosstalk and possibly hum to give that "Night & Day" difference when you switch the plugin in and out.

Good analog gear should be very clean unless you are hitting it with ridiculously high levels (voltages)

[chronocepter]

Ive tried the TB Reelbus with good results.
gota take a look at that StripBus some day..

free good ones ive been use:
ThrillseekerXTC by variety of sound
Proximity and TDR Feedback Compressor II by vladg/sound

If someone find the Analogue just say hello

[ngarjuna]

Originally Posted by richie43

If you don't want to go with the whole Nebula thing, there are the Aqua plugins, which use the same technology as Nebula but in stand-alone plugins. CDSoundmaster, Anologinthebox, and a few others have some. They are amazing. CDSM also has a non Aqua Virtual tape machine (VTM-M2) with will blow you away. This one pre-dates the Slate, in fact I think Slate has been accused of "borrowing" more than just a similar name to this.

Of the products mentioned in this thread, this is the only one that actually delivers (imo obviously). Nebula is ftw.

That said, even Nebula doesn't beat the hybrid rack. Today it's possible to have the best of both worlds.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Bristol Posse

Out of curiosity how much noise and cross talk does Stripbus add to each channel?

from the description on the website it sounds like quite a lot.

Both noise and crosstalk are adjustable between off, low, medium and high. On the low setting the crosstalk is very very subtle, I performed a test similar to yours (but ITB) when I first bought it and I think I had to add an enormous volume boost to be able to hear it. The actual sound of the crosstalk was quite similar to your recording, minus the hiss. Medium on the other hand is imediately noticeable and high as far as I'm concerned is useless, unless you want your mix to sound like its running through a knackered old board. I've not performed a test with the noise but it isn't hiss or crackle, it's a sort of grainy sound that is signal dependent - if the track has no audio no noise is produced.

In any case, I tend to leave both of them off and enjoy the console saturation and subtle compression without the defects of analogue desks. In this respect it sounds very much like analogue desks. I couldn't say whether it sounds like the desks modelled, but the effect on transients, high end and punch are very much like you would expect from a real (and expensive) desk.

[brainwreck]

I never heard of these Aqua plugins, before. What kind of latency do they have?

[Stu]

I've only tried the free version of Neve Eq from CDsoundmasters, in that one at least (just a single band EQ) the latency is substantial.

[Bristol Posse]

Originally Posted by Stu

Both noise and crosstalk are adjustable between off, low, medium and high. On the low setting the crosstalk is very very subtle, I performed a test similar to yours (but ITB) when I first bought it and I think I had to add an enormous volume boost to be able to hear it. The actual sound of the crosstalk was quite similar to your recording, minus the hiss. Medium on the other hand is imediately noticeable and high as far as I'm concerned is useless, unless you want your mix to sound like its running through a knackered old board. I've not performed a test with the noise but it isn't hiss or crackle, it's a sort of grainy sound that is signal dependent - if the track has no audio no noise is produced.

In any case, I tend to leave both of them off and enjoy the console saturation and subtle compression without the defects of analogue desks. In this respect it sounds very much like analogue desks. I couldn't say whether it sounds like the desks modelled, but the effect on transients, high end and punch are very much like you would expect from a real (and expensive) desk.

Interesting, Thanks for the details. It sounds like they did a good job for a very good price with Stripbus

[brainwreck]

Originally Posted by Stu

I've only tried the free version of Neve Eq from CDsoundmasters, in that one at least (just a single band EQ) the latency is substantial.

Yea, I knew better than to ask that. Those plugins sound appealing, but I don't like dealing with high latency, even for mixing only. When I grab a control, I want it to react quickly. I tried the free version of Nebula at some point, and latency is the only reason why I didn't investigate it further. Does anyone know what would need to happen for the latency to come down for this kind of tech, or if it is even possible?

[ngarjuna]

Originally Posted by brainwreck

I never heard of these Aqua plugins, before. What kind of latency do they have?

Same as Nebula iirc (terribly big latency).

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Bristol Posse

Interesting, Thanks for the details. It sounds like they did a good job for a very good price with Stripbus

If I had paid 3 times more I'd still be satisfied, I don't know how the guy does it for such a reasonable price. I feel exactly the same about Toneboosters Reelbuss, the work that must have gone into that plugin and he's almost giving it away. There are some decent folks around, making the rest of us look bad haha

[Stu]

Originally Posted by brainwreck

Yea, I knew better than to ask that. Those plugins sound appealing, but I don't like dealing with high latency, even for mixing only. When I grab a control, I want it to react quickly. I tried the free version of Nebula at some point, and latency is the only reason why I didn't investigate it further. Does anyone know what would need to happen for the latency to come down for this kind of tech, or if it is even possible?

I'm the same about grabbing the controls, it's really off-putting when something doesn't respond quickly. That free plug I mentioned sounds great but I don't use it very often at all, to make matters worse the knobs don't work like you would expect; you have to click and hold then move your mouse in an arc, bugs the crap out of me!

[andrew grove]

Originally Posted by chronocepter

Ive tried the TB Reelbus with good results.
gota take a look at that StripBus some day..

free good ones ive been use:
ThrillseekerXTC by variety of sound
Proximity and TDR Feedback Compressor II by vladg/sound

If someone find the Analogue just say hello

I have Thrillseeker (don't know if it the XTC) but it does sound good, thanks and I'll have to try the other one you mention, thanks again Andrew
Analogue! sorry

[Smurf]

The best I have used, at least to MY ears, is Harrison Mixbus. After getting the mix done, I export the stems, import them into Mixbus, run them thru the system keeping the Tape Sat bouncing between -4 & +4, and then render it out.

It's a few steps more than a plugin, but well worth it to us!

[Swamp Ape]

I use Terry West Saturn, Ferric TDS, and Voxengo TubeAmp on almost every project, often multiple instances.

[andrew grove]

Hey thanks to everyone and I think I found what I was looking for (sounds like a song). I got the edge off my music using the PC2 and Smash from http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/

Enjoy Andrew

[Andywanders]

Analogue sound..?

Hate it..!

Give me nice, sweaky-clean, crisp digital any day.

I always found recording to tape to be so dissapointing - the way it 'squashed' the sound, the noise, the tiny dynamic range etc... UGH...

When I first sold my old Teac 8-track reel-to-reel (back in the mid-90s) and replaced it with a digital multi-track (Fostex), I was completely blown away by it. Finally, the playback sounded the same as the musicians' performance and I haven't looked back since.

I know a lot of these plugins that try to create "warmth" and an "analoge" vibe are very popular these days, but as far as I'm concerned, they're a complete waste of time and money and don't add any "magic" to any tracks. Certainly nothing that can't be achieved with most existing native comps, filters & EQs. And in case you're wondering - Yes, I have tried quite a few.

To me, tape sim plugins are like expenseve hi-fi cables. "WOW... All my CDs sound so incredible now I've got these twelve-thousand-quid Nordost connectors."

Okay... Maybe they're not quite that bad

But they're mostly marketing hype IMO.

And I stress again... This is just my opinion, so please don't kill me.

Each to their own

[bharris]

Originally Posted by Smurf

The best I have used, at least to MY ears, is Harrison Mixbus. After getting the mix done, I export the stems, import them into Mixbus, run them thru the system keeping the Tape Sat bouncing between -4 & +4, and then render it out.

It's a few steps more than a plugin, but well worth it to us!

In other words, you use Reaper just for recording and MIDI/VST/synth work, and Harrison Mixbus for mixing/mastering? Do you use any VSTs in Mixbus? Does anyone else here use Reaper for one portion of a project (i.e., recording) and another DAW for mixing/mastering?

[andrew grove]

Originally Posted by bharris

In other words, you use Reaper just for recording and MIDI/VST/synth work, and Harrison Mixbus for mixing/mastering? Do you use any VSTs in Mixbus? Does anyone else here use Reaper for one portion of a project (i.e., recording) and another DAW for mixing/mastering?

What is MixBus, thanks

[richie43]

Originally Posted by andrew grove

What is MixBus, thanks

Google Harrison MixBus, it's yet another DAW that some people like because it is set up to emulate an analog workflow and includes a channel-strip on each channel, again emulating a console. MixBus also has a different "summing algorithm", to my knowledge, and is NOT just math, but it has it's own coloration. I have heard good things about it, but I refrain from using any DAW that has it's own coloration built-in. I would just go back to my meager analog past and pick a console if I wanted that! Don't forget that GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND AND FREE.

[Vudu12]

How about to get this gauzy top, bottomless bass, hot tubes, old tape heads 1970's Jamaican sound? I'm trying everything...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHqkzRJYigk

I think the lo-fi solution of converting to 96k mp3 is the closest but the artifacts are unacceptable.

[XITE-1/4LIVE]

Digital Distortion will not do the trick, but there are cool effects from using it.
If you want the 70s album sound, you can use Overdrive plugs on every track and hope for a decent cumulative effect.
I tried for years to get the Deep Purple, Uraih Heep, ELP, Boston Hammond B3 sound w/ 147 Leslie, Cannot be done digitally.
When I do get close, I reach over and swell the drawbars and they now have lost all definition, so over the years tried the 1U Dynacord, MK1 Rotosphere, Neo Ventilator, again a nice decent sound but no cigars, now I am buying the Leslie Studio 120 w/ Tube Amp Pre and pray it works.
Same thing with digital audio and digital FX, you can get close maybe, but if you really want old console distortion and feedback paths from patching, buy something. Even if it's an ancient little 8 track/channel, the sound of voltage just can't be reproduced.
Love to see it though.

[Vudu12]

Yes, well I wanted to get close ITB but will mix down on an old Studiomaster board with spring reverb, Boss BBD delay (can't afford Space Echo), and even a Kustom 250 head but that is more hiss than niceness for an effect.

Emulating the technique, ie. only having 4 mono channels and 2 mono effects (spring reverb & tape delay) can really help too. I haven't even tried to set something like that up in the box yet... so hard to reduce reaper down to such lows!

[XITE-1/4LIVE]

There ya' go.
I had the Kustom Organ as a kid with the lights, etc. Also those tall slim PA cabs. We was the Monkees.....

[chronocepter]

I'm testing this baby. pretty... analog.

http://www.fabfilter.com/products/sa...ration-plug-in