Old 07-23-2014, 02:01 PM   #1
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Default Midi Problems today...

Hi my friends, I've been haveing some real problems with Reaper today. This happened with both Reaper 4.6 and 4.71. Also something that's probably important is I had Tempo Markers in the song.

The first thing that happened is I was trying to lay some pitch in the ME CC lane. The first note worked fine, I got the pitch bend just as I needed.

3 or 4 measures further into the song I could not get any pitch drawn in at all. I'd start to draw and it put in pitch events going back a whole measure behind where I was at. I tried copying the first events that were working. I was able to paste them but they didn't end up in the right position. When I tried to select them and move them (Right mouse drag) they wouldn't select. I ended up selecting each event one at a time and deleting them.

Another thing that happened that wasn't in the ME, is I tried adding measures at the front of the song but it would not do it. I'd select the time selection, press Alt-Shift-C I think it is and nothing happened.

Then in the ME I'd place the cursor and hit play but the Cursor would go back to the previous position and start playing. Here's a LICEcap showing this.



I'm sure there are a lot more little bugs associated with this but this is what happened for the short time I actually worked with this project.

This is an important project for one of my old clients but fortunately we weren't so far along I can't start a fresh project.
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:20 AM   #2
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So that you can see what I'm talking about, here is a Reaper Project with the problem.

Load it and try adding some CC or working with pitch between markers 1 and 2. Outside of the markers everything works fine.

https://stash.reaper.fm/21310/01%20Dr...hanges%201.RPP

I think there are some serious problems here and should be adressed as soon as possible. Unless of course someone can see the reason for this, possibly a setting or something.
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:23 AM   #3
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I can draw pitch bend messages the normal way (again, that was kind of broken between 4.6x and 4.7x, had to draw them backwards) where I want, the edit cursor stays where I put it and I can insert empty space at the project start in your project.

The easiest way to check if there's a setting responsible for that would be (temporarily) moving your reaper.ini to a safe place outside of the REAPER folders.
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
The easiest way to check if there's a setting responsible for that would be (temporarily) moving your reaper.ini to a safe place outside of the REAPER folders.
Thanks Ollie, that's both good and bad news.

It means Reapers probably okay which is good. However, it also means my setup has a problem and that's definitely bad.
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:21 AM   #5
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[v4.7 here]

You have over 25,000 redundant CC messages in that clip. Why not remove them with:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=134606
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=139597

Speeds up editing CCs too.

Alt-Shift-C is "Create measure from time selection" here (did you change it?)

Play form cursor is all OK too.

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Old 07-24-2014, 11:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
The easiest way to check if there's a setting responsible for that would be (temporarily) moving your reaper.ini to a safe place outside of the REAPER folders.
What happens exactly, I removed the reaper.ini file, reopened Reaper, it took a little while becasue it rescanned all the plugins, and then it opened. It was like an old version I had back maybe a year ago. The reason I say that is that it had some old toolbars I no longer have or use.

I thouhgt Reaper was supposed to make a new reaper.ini file if it had been removed but it didn't do that, there is no reaper.ini file in it now.

At any rate, it didn't fix the problem for me, everything was the same.

I think I will try a whole new portable install and see what happens.
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
[v4.7 here]

You have over 25,000 redundant CC messages in that clip. Why not remove them with:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=134606
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=139597

Speeds up editing CCs too.

Alt-Shift-C is "Create measure from time selection" here (did you change it?)

Play form cursor is all OK too.

--------------------------
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Thanks DS, yeah there's a lot of redundant CCs, that's because I can't freely draw the CCs in that section between the markers. Instead of slopping like it should it just draws flat and you can't get a slope.

Don't worry about the redundant CCs, I've got your JS plugins set up on my main toolbar and use them all the time.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:03 PM   #8
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Okay, did a whole new fresh portable install that has non of my custom changes at all. It's as if I loaded Reaper for the first time.

Same thing. If it's me then what could it be?

Here's a little vid of drawing in some CC11. You can see it square off right at marker 1 and then draw somthly again after marker 2.

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Old 07-24-2014, 01:26 PM   #9
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Also, what is supposed to happen when you create a measure?

Doesn't everything shift to the right when you create a measure? If it doen't then what good is it?

I swear I've done this before and it worked but I can't find any actions other than the ones that are also in the Menu>Insert.

At any rate, I just tried inserting a measure on my old XP and it doesn't work like I thought it should either.

Is there no way to add measures and shift everything including markers, tempo markers, items, etc. to the right?
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:03 PM   #10
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Default Confirmed here

Hi Tod et al!

I could reproduce this crazy behaviour in one of my machines and I observed the following :

- There is something strange with the ticked "allow partial measure" option in the marker at 4.1.00. The timebase of the tempo envelope in your project is set to Time and the option is disabled (but ticked anyway). When I change it to Beats and untick that option from the marker the behaviour is normal again and you can draw fine at the ME.

- While the problem is there, if you draw backwards the behaviour is different. Take a look :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wv3giu3017...ME%20issue.jpg

- If I erase your tempo markers and draw something like this in your project, the behaviour is also back to normality :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/djkdgtsg7u...20envelope.jpg


Definitely something that needs to be checked by the devs. I believe there were some issues with the "Allow partial measure" option in the recent past; maybe there was some bug left. I think it will be worth of the issue tracker...
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:23 PM   #11
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More info:
Re CC insertion - it's a bit different here. Within the period covered by those odd tempos, I only get a few CC messages per beat (for some reason that I cannot fathom, licecap is only capturing the last part of the edit, but I started drawing at the start of the clip):



It's definitely the tempo changes that are screwing things up. If I remove several then the CC drawing is OK.

Also, if I now marquee round the 2? CC messages at 13, it selects the two CC messages at 12 and the first one at 13!

Ah ha - here's the rogue tempo change:

Move it to be exactly on measure 3 (3.1.00) and the CC editing is OK.

WAG (wild-assed guess): the calculation of the positions of the CC messages is being screwed by the non-integral position of the tempo / time sig change
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Is there no way to add measures and shift everything including markers, tempo markers, items, etc. to the right?
Insert ... Empty space at time selection
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:26 PM   #13
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Two independent diagnoses

Good luck condensing this into a BR for the Issue Tracker
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:53 PM   #14
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Aah, Soli and DS, thankyou both very much, I was going nuts with this.

Now I need to check all this out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Insert ... Empty space at time selection
That's what I've been using Menu/Insert/Measure from time selection(Detect tempo) and can't get it to work. Also Shift-Alt-C which is the shortcut it's assigned to.

Even with projects with no tempo changes or markers, it doesn't seem to work.

It adds a Tempo marker but doesn't push anything to the right. If it doesn't push anything to the right what good can it be?

Can there be a setting I'm missing, like I said, I swear I've used this before and it did what I wanted to do.
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Two independent diagnoses

Good luck condensing this into a BR for the Issue Tracker


- Another observation: When I move the tempo envelope point at marker #1 once (just move it up and back down to where it was), drawing CCs is fine again. Manually editing the point doesn't seem to do that, nor does moving the envelope point before and after that point (but they don't start a new measure of course).


- No idea what I did when I tried it this afternoon (apart from turning snap off and later changing to the latest pre) but I didn't get this behavior and was drawing smooth CC transitions all over the place. Edit: forgot to mention that I now have to draw them backwards again in this pre, unless I move said envelope point.

What we need is instructions on how to recreate a simple project from scratch that is showing a behavior like this.

Last edited by Ollie; 07-24-2014 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post

That's what I've been using Menu/Insert/Measure from time selection(Detect tempo) and can't get it to work.
That's not Insert->"Empty space at time selection".
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
That's not Insert->"Empty space at time selection".
Heh heh, so there is another action and by golly that's the one I think I was looking for all along. I was using "measure" in my search and never thought about "empty space". I knew I'd done this before.

Thanks Ollie.
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Old 07-25-2014, 01:51 AM   #18
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^^^^
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