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Old 11-30-2016, 12:33 AM   #1
Lowell Mather 5150
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Default T-Racks invalid operation during scanning

Hi,

First I'll give my specs: my PC is Windows 8.1 x64, and I primarily use Reaper x64. I haven't fired up Reaper x86 in a while, but today I figured what the hell because I am doing some housekeeping. The problem I will mention shortly happened upon starting reaper and the ensuing plugin scan. I then proceeded to install Reaper 5.29 x86 version. I'm fairly certain I did a portable install on my x64 version 4.77, but not sure about the x86. Anyhow, Reaper 5 seemed to install fine. From what I can see there is a registry & scanning error.

All of my T-Racks plugins will not scan correctly. These are the messages I receive in dialog boxes:

Plug-in T-Racks CS blahblah.dll executed invalid operation during scanning. I have updated T-Racks to the current version, restored gear in custom shop, yet the problem persists. I hope it's not something stupid I'm overlooking. I am attaching a licecap that will you tell you more than I can. Thanks guys.


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Old 11-30-2016, 03:27 AM   #2
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My first reaction was "oh no not IKMM again!"

Had my share of issues with them and basically dumped all the stuff I had bought from them over the years.
To your problem: It is very possible that Reaper is trying to bridge the 64bit version of TRacks because you only have the 64bit version installed - this is one of the issues I had with both TRacks and Sampletank. Worth trying installing the 32bit version of TRacks and seeing if that works. I assume your 64bit install was working fine?
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Old 11-30-2016, 12:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
My first reaction was "oh no not IKMM again!"

Had my share of issues with them and basically dumped all the stuff I had bought from them over the years.
To your problem: It is very possible that Reaper is trying to bridge the 64bit version of TRacks because you only have the 64bit version installed - this is one of the issues I had with both TRacks and Sampletank. Worth trying installing the 32bit version of TRacks and seeing if that works. I assume your 64bit install was working fine?
Hi Ivan,

Thing is, I had just run the newest T-racks update and am fairly certain there was also a 32 bit directory and the dll files are in my 32 bit folder. To answer your question, yes the x64 is working fine, though it is still 4.77 not 5.29 like my 32 bit install. However, I think I mentioned that Reaper 32 bit 4.77 also had a problem with those plugs. I know I had a portable install at one time, but checking program files for both leads me to believe I later performed a full install.

Thanks
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Old 11-30-2016, 03:25 PM   #4
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Since someone else was saying they had issues with cpu load and IKMM stuff, I broke my solemn word to myself and re-downloaded the latest version of the IKMM stuff that I own, updated all my instrumnts in Custom Shop.
And everything just worked.
Amazed. Now that IS all 64bit including reaper and windows, but it actually seemed a lot more stable than the last time I tried it. Thats Amplitube, TRacks and Sampletank3.
Doesnt help your issue, but at least it does show it IS possible to run all teh IKMM stuff reliably (well on my machine)

Just for grins, did you try doing what the popup suggested - uninstall TRacks and do a clean download/reinstall?
Might work.
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Old 11-30-2016, 05:41 PM   #5
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Hey Ivan,

That's good to hear man, glad you got them working.

Nah, I didn't reinstall, because as I said, I had just updated T-Racks to the latest version. I found a video of some dude with a similar problem with the legacy instruments (Sonik Synth, etc.), and he mentioned he started as administrator to solve the problem. I know that I have had to use run administrator in the past with some of those legacy instruments, but I don't recall it being for the same reason. I normally use run as admin due to a plugin which I use often (Revalver) requires it. So I also:



I inadvertently hit 'troubleshoot' instead of run as admin, so I figured what the hell, let it run. I don't know if this had anything to do with it, or if it was just run admin. Although, my amplitube metal, jimi Hendrix, ampeg svx, x gear still have the same problem - probably because IK has deleted them from existence, even though I still have the dll's in my folder. Moving right along, America's best days are ahead of us!
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:26 AM   #6
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Hm. I have revalver 4 on my machine and I have never had to run it in admin mode. The admin mode with IKMM was one of the reasons I jumped ship, b ut based on the install I just did it would appear they fixed that problem, at least on MY machine.
So bearing in mind YOUR problems, looks like it didnt entirely go away. Have you spent much money with them yet?
I wound up buying Revalver4 and scuffham2 for guitars & have since added the excellent Vermilion. No need for IKMM Amplitube and I had noticed I was using TRacks less and less. Even the CSR reverb, which I actually paid good money for!
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Old 12-01-2016, 03:30 AM   #7
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It would be worth reporting this problem to IK Multimedia Support as the current products are NOT meant to need "Run as Administrator".
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Old 12-01-2016, 06:56 AM   #8
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...but don't hold your breath. Sorry, but my experience with IKMM support was uniformly awful. I mean REALLY awful.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:05 AM   #9
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They do need prodding / Tasering sometimes.
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
It would be worth reporting this problem to IK Multimedia Support as the current products are NOT meant to need "Run as Administrator".
DarkStar - Indeed, and I did exactly that the same day I started this thread. IK's ultimate response was: "You usually should not need to run as admin, but sometimes Reaper is a little funny about that may need to be."

My observation is that yes, with SampleTank 2 - and the other legacy instruments, yes sometimes I have needed to run as admin, but I don't believe it was for this identical reason.
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Old 12-04-2016, 08:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Hm. I have revalver 4 on my machine and I have never had to run it in admin mode. The admin mode with IKMM was one of the reasons I jumped ship, b ut based on the install I just did it would appear they fixed that problem, at least on MY machine.
So bearing in mind YOUR problems, looks like it didnt entirely go away. Have you spent much money with them yet?
I wound up buying Revalver4 and scuffham2 for guitars & have since added the excellent Vermilion. No need for IKMM Amplitube and I had noticed I was using TRacks less and less. Even the CSR reverb, which I actually paid good money for!
Hi Ivan,

I do not as of yet own Revalver 4 (I plan to soon), but I own MkIII.V and HP. If you want to change the quality settings, and/or save user presets, then you need to run as admin (possibly not the quality settings, but definitely user presets - I've gotten so used to doing it all the time now).

In regards to IK, I have spent hundreds. For the most part, the IK plugs have been reliable, and even in Harrison Mixbus 2.5 - and that's saying something.

To quote DarkStar: "They do need prodding / Tasering sometimes." Yes, they do. Nail on the head. You cannot let up on these guys, and you cannot be gentle with them. I'm not saying be a total dick, but be firm - these are plugins you paid good money for, and they need to get to the bottom of why they are not working.
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Old 12-05-2016, 01:14 AM   #12
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OK My experience with 3,3.5 and 4 has been different - no issues at all even when adding user presets.
And can I remind you that I had pretty much the same sort of issues with IKMM and was told to run in Admin mode "as a temporary measure whilst they update the code" several YEARS ago.
To use a technical term, Fuckem.
All their support ever did was tell me it wasnt their fault and Reaper was the cause. Even though I had the same problem in Sonar, too.
I gave up.
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Old 12-05-2016, 03:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowell Mather 5150 View Post
DarkStar - Indeed, and I did exactly that the same day I started this thread. IK's ultimate response was: "You usually should not need to run as admin, but sometimes Reaper is a little funny about that may need to be."

My observation is that yes, with SampleTank 2 - and the other legacy instruments, yes sometimes I have needed to run as admin, but I don't believe it was for this identical reason.
Indeed. That response sounds like waffle. Ask Support to explain exactly what is 'funny' in Reaper ("so that you can pass it on to the devs")
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Old 12-05-2016, 11:34 AM   #14
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DarkStar, will do.
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Old 12-05-2016, 11:45 AM   #15
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Ivan, I hear ya about IK. Ultimately, if I can get the plugs to work
by running as admin, life goes on. Regarding Revalver, see this Peavey
thread for what I was talking about:

https://peavey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35129

Also, Jose's reply:

https://peavey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25400

Last edited by Lowell Mather 5150; 12-05-2016 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 12-05-2016, 11:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowell Mather 5150 View Post
by running as admin, life goes on.
True but you likely can't drag/drop files into reaper now from say windows explorer - just a heads up so that you are aware.
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Old 12-05-2016, 01:03 PM   #17
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True but you likely can't drag/drop files into reaper now from say windows explorer - just a heads up so that you are aware.
Whoa, wait a minute. Karbo, I normally use insert media file, but are you saying run as admin disables drag & drop?
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Old 12-05-2016, 01:12 PM   #18
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Whoa, wait a minute. Karbo, I normally use insert media file, but are you saying run as admin disables drag & drop?
It should break that way yes. All user accounts, even those who are "administrators" run under a watered down security context for security reasons, a security sandbox if you will and that's a good thing.

So, let's say you run Reaper explicitly as admin when you launch it, you now have two sandboxes... Your regular user context that you log in with which owns your access to folders, desktop etc. and this elevated context you just ran Reaper in. There will be a memory barrier between those two (that's also a good thing because it helps block elevated attacks) and in order to drag a file from say your desktop into reaper you are attempting to cross that barrier.

What you should see is dragging a file directly into reaper from a folder or desktop just won't work. Insert media should work because that is within the admin context reaper is running under which has it's own separate context for browsing etc. Make sense?
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Old 12-05-2016, 01:30 PM   #19
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Oh no, makes sense yeah. Definitely not ideal.
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Old 12-05-2016, 01:39 PM   #20
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Tried to tell IKMM this a long while back as the reason I didnt want to run permanently in Admin mode just to suit their crappy code. At the time they still insisted this was not their problem but the host software, despite it happening in all three of the DAWs I used at thed time.
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Old 12-05-2016, 01:44 PM   #21
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I do have 'some' sympathy for developers but not so much in 2016 since the official guidance to not write to the program files folder was published somewhere around 2000. Years went by of not actually enforcing it to allow developers who were already doing it wrong to readjust, 2007/08 or so comes along and it starts being enforced because 7 years IMHO is a pretty good lead time.

Not sure IKMM got that memo.
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Old 12-05-2016, 05:02 PM   #22
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IK Multimedia's latest responses:

"Its just we have seen sometimes you may have to run it as admin for plug ins to show. Its not wide spread, just something we have noticed on some systems."

"I am just telling you what we have noticed here and there, it doesn't happen with all users just something we have ran across here and there."

I am definitely not excusing IK here, no way. Unfortunately, I guess my case is a special one as I am already screwed somewhat having to run Peavey Revalver as admin, so what can you do.
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Old 12-06-2016, 02:35 AM   #23
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Answer lies in your hands.
You wont get a refund out of them, but you can at least not spend any more money with them.
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Old 12-06-2016, 02:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowell Mather 5150 View Post
IK Multimedia's latest responses:

"Its just we have seen sometimes you may have to run it as admin for plug ins to show. Its not wide spread, just something we have noticed on some systems."

"I am just telling you what we have noticed here and there, it doesn't happen with all users just something we have ran across here and there."
OK, if Support have seen it then Development should be able to explain exactly why it happens.
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:04 AM   #25
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...but only if they actually give a shit about it.

orry to keep posting such negative stuff, but it just makes me so angry to see yet another who has paid good money for the IKMM product being treated in the same offhand way I was years ago.
Add to this IKMMs policy of
1. not letting you sell a licence to someone else and
2. charging you to re-download what you already paid for in the event of a catastrophic computer failure

and you see why I and many others hold a grudge.

I will stop posting this non-constructive stuff. Sorry.
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:20 AM   #26
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No need to apologise.

I was hinting that latest Support reply was unsatisfactory and that Lowell Mather 5150 should persevere. The Development team should be able to explain exactly what causes the problem, even if they have to go and have another look at the code.

For your other points:
1 You can transfer a licence, for a Licence Transfer fee,
2 Software downloads are available permanently; but sounds library downloads are initially available for 180 days after Registration; after that a single Download Reactivation fee covers all the libraries.

I do agree that the latter is a charge that others do not impose; but IK Multimedia has made it a single fee to cover all libraries. And it recommends that users back-up their libraries to another disk.

IK Multimedia has improved in some areas, but 'could do better'.
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Old 12-06-2016, 06:32 AM   #27
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OP could potentially run procmon, then launch Reaper as non-admin, repro the issue, stop the procmon and send to me. I 'might' be able to find the offending call/write attempt that he could then present to IKMM - not guaranteed but wouldn't necessarily hurt to try.
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Old 12-06-2016, 09:13 AM   #28
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Would make a lot of people very happy if you could earmark even approximately what as causing this, Karbo.

And yes it was the having to re-buy the sounds I was whining about.

With the available bandwidth these days, do they really need to charge for re-downloading stuff?
Don't know of anyone else who does that, and let's face it if you have a whole computer die, taking all your drives with it, that is not going to make recovery too easy.
....unless you had your backups on a remote storage device.

I have mine on a separate external drive but have to confess it stays permanently connected via USB so even like that there is a potential vulnerability.
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Old 12-06-2016, 09:23 AM   #29
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If someone can have procmon running while what is shown in the screen shot in the first post is occurring, I'd be happy to look and see if there is anything of value there.
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Old 12-06-2016, 02:35 PM   #30
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Ok Karbo,

What do I save the file as in Procmon - or a quick step by step.
Thanks.
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Old 12-06-2016, 02:48 PM   #31
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Ok Karbo,

What do I save the file as in Procmon - or a quick step by step.
Thanks.
- Be ready to scan in reaper because promon logs heavy and fast.
- Start procmon as it will immediately start logging
- Reproduce the scan errors, click OK a few times so we log several.
- Stop the procmon scan by clicking CTRL+E (or the little magnifying glass)
- File > Save - choose .PML as the log type.
- Zip it up and dropbox it or however so I can download, you can PM me those details if you like.
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Old 12-06-2016, 02:59 PM   #32
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Filter?
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:00 PM   #33
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Filter?
Save all events to start with so we don't miss anything. You could filter for process = Reaper.exe before closing then save that as a separate filtered PML. That means you could begin by sending me the filtered copy because it is smaller, then if I need more I can just ask.

Up to you if you want to do that or just send me the unfiltered file but zip that puppy first.
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:12 PM   #34
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Ok man, let me know if you got it. I tried to send a pm but the
'send message' did not work, so I had to go into my user cp and
do it from there.
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:27 PM   #35
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Ok man, let me know if you got it. I tried to send a pm but the
'send message' did not work, so I had to go into my user cp and
do it from there.
I got it, looking to see if I can find anything.
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:10 PM   #36
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So far it's pretty clean. I expected to see at least some failed write to a file or registry but not seeing it in this smaller trace. You could upload the bigger trace just to be safe but ideally it should have came from Reaper.exe even if performed by T-Racks but who knows.

You could also as a kicks and giggles test, create some arbitrary folder such as C:\Test and place a *copy* of this file into it...

C:\Program Files (x86)\VstPlugIns\T-RackS CS Black 76.dll

Then install a portable 32 bit version of Reaper to another test folder such as C:\Reaper. Run it and point it's VST path to C:\Test as it's only scan path to see if that scans successfully. That may not tell us much but is what I might try if I was hanging out troubleshooting this at home..

I noticed you have Reaper 32 bit but the T-Racks plugs are 32 bit as well so I can't connect those dots into anything useful. If none of this tells us anything, it's down to Justin without our going down rabbit holes.
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:02 PM   #37
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Yo Karbo,

Thanks for the help man. Yeah, that was the 32 bit plugs (T-Racks, legacy vsti's) I am having problems with. I normally use x64 Reaper, but uh run as admin still applies to the IK multimedia legacy vsti's, as well as Peavey Revalver. You know, maybe I might try those other steps down the road, but right now, I am gone to let this sleeping dog lie. If I wasn't stuck using run as admin due to Peavey Revalver as well, then I would totally be on IK (I already have been, but they have pretty much been tits on a boar). I guess I am going to have run the route of always run Reaper as administrator, so I can still use the open new project shortcut.
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:03 PM   #38
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Yo Karbo,

Thanks for the help man. You know, maybe I might try those other steps down the road, but right now, I am gone to let this sleeping dog lie. If I wasn't stuck using run as admin due to Peavey Revalver as well, then I would totally be on IK (I already have been, but they have pretty much been tits on a boar). I guess I am going to have run the route of always run Reaper as administrator, so I can still use the open new project shortcut.
No problem, I get it so all is good. Now go make some music.
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Old 12-07-2016, 07:40 AM   #39
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Please run the T-RackS standalone program and check the exact version(s) of the T-Racks plug-ins. And, in Explorer / Finder, their Dates Modified and whether 32-bit or 64-bit or both are installed?
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Old 12-07-2016, 07:55 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Please run the T-RackS standalone program and check the exact version(s) of the T-Racks plug-ins. And, in Explorer / Finder, their Dates Modified and whether 32-bit or 64-bit or both are installed?
^Fine idea... FYI... I was going to mention bitness but after closer review, the promon showed he was running 32 bit reaper and had 32 bit T-Racks installed and the 32 bit versions were what Reaper was attempting to load - it appears as if each one loaded fine then initializing it caused the error. That smells like a bit mismatch or bad image but I don't expect that to suddenly begin working when running Reaper as admin.
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