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05-13-2014, 04:00 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 346
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Will there be a Linux (Ubuntu) release?
I rarely use Windows anymore. I switched to 7, ended up going back to XP, then about 2 years ago switched to Ubuntu and have no use for MS at this point...
EXCEPT...
for Reaper. I'm keeping the XP install alive for pretty much just this purpose. I've considered using Ardour but at this point I know Reaper more than Ardour and don't want to backtrack in learning.
But I hate dual booting whenever inspiration hits.
Will there be a Linux Ubuntu release?
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05-13-2014, 05:01 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 777funk
I rarely use Windows anymore. I switched to 7, ended up going back to XP, then about 2 years ago switched to Ubuntu and have no use for MS at this point...
EXCEPT...
for Reaper. I'm keeping the XP install alive for pretty much just this purpose. I've considered using Ardour but at this point I know Reaper more than Ardour and don't want to backtrack in learning.
But I hate dual booting whenever inspiration hits.
Will there be a Linux Ubuntu release?
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Hopefully a dev will jump in, but from where I sit I don't see it happening anytime soon. As you surely know, it's not an easy port, it's a total re-write. I have heard of somewhat success running Reaper in Wine, but I tried it and hated it. I love linux for some things, but have given up on it for audio. My Windows 8 64bit/Reaper DAW is rock-solid and nearly trouble-free. I can't even say that for any linux DAW I have tried using Ardour or any other linux-native DAW software. And not to be a curmudgeon, for as much as I like linux, I actually hope Justin and crew stay away from coding for linux so that they can continue what they have and not get too diluted. Just my opinion.
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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05-13-2014, 08:10 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 346
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Ardour runs rock solid on my Linux machine BUT... I don't have any plugins for it. So I can't say that it has to flex any muscles the way I use it. I don't track anything serious on Ardour since I'm not familiar with it's editing functionality.
I have had a fair share problems with Reaper being crashy to the point where I almost can't use it (will close immediately and I have to restart the computer). But I'm sure that's in a big part due to plugins (3rd party). There's a lot going on with a DAW so I don't fault that to Reaper by any means. With stock plugins, it runs GREAT most of the time. I just wish it worked with Linux so I wouldn't have to dual boot!
But I'm sure there's a reason it doesn't exist yet.
Speaking of DAW's and stability, when I used ProTools, it also crashed at times. I have enjoyed the freedom of Reaper (interface choices, VST plugins, etc etc) much more than my time with PT. It's the same reason I don't buy an iPhone, iPod, iPad, etc. If it's my system, I'd like to use it like it's my system. Reaper has that feel to it. I just wish it worked in Linux!
There's definitely more and more mainstream hardware and software supported by Linux these days. OS wise for everyday use, file managment, cool free (and useful) programs, multimedia, networking, etc I've enjoyed my 2 years with Linux far more than Windows or OSX. It's always a bit of a drag when I have to boot Windows to run Reaper (which is now the only program I regularly use that requires Windows).
Last edited by 777funk; 05-13-2014 at 08:33 PM.
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05-13-2014, 10:08 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 913
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Windows 7 is fine. I run two desktops and two laptops with W7 64-bit and have had zero problems. I prefer it to the Mavericks OS X on the Mac Mini I recently bought.
I like UBUNTU, and run it on several older systems. It's great for bidness or internet use, but I never found it useful for serious music production. Even my wife is using a Ubuntu system. I run Ubuntu Studio 12.04. I HATE the GUI of standard Ubuntu, too much like Windows 8.
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05-14-2014, 12:30 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 306
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I'm using Reaper in wine/linux 64bit without problems. (Wine-rt-64bit 1.6.2, Debian Jessie 64bit)
That includes several Kontakt 5 instances using about 26-28GB of ram for my orchestral sample libs.
Alex.
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05-14-2014, 01:03 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43
it's not an easy port, it's a total re-write
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Not really a total rewrite, the most problematic part seems to be the GUI. The audio processing more or less already works. Still, lots of work which necessarily wouldn't add much value to Reaper. How many Linux users really would buy Reaper, if a working port was available...?
__________________
I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.
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05-14-2014, 01:12 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios
How many Linux users really would buy Reaper, if a working port was available...?
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Can't give you a number, but I would bet there are a lot of Windows users who would rather be on Linux, if it wasn't for the weakness in the audio/video dept. I love Linux, but I also don't want multiple computers or a dual boot on my system. So...if Reaper was to be made available for Linux, I would be pretty inclined use it.
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05-14-2014, 01:21 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 668
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-1 Ubuntu
+1 Centos hahaha
I'm a programmer myself and I still have yet to wrap my head around the idea of pre-emptively writing code that is easier to port to multiple OS's. I mean essentially, the main/common things you wouldn't be able to make non os specific would be things like accessing the audio drivers, drawing windows and controls, and maybe a few other things. I'd guess you could just write your own OS function call wrappers (or find some open source ones) that so that the main program itself never touches the OS, and the wrapper objects handle deciding how to make that final bit of I/O when you're trying to actually hit the soundcard.
Also, aren't there open source draw-ers that will render windows and controls and stuff for you in a platform independent way? I never understood why most windows programs seem to rely on the native windows events/renderers/etc instead of going neutral. I barely started learning android apps and I'm already trying to think ahead about porting to iPhone.
Totally totally speculating here though. I'm not a "porter" yet. And even if the Reaper dev's didn't plan ahead for a linux port... still love them to death and will never go back!
__________________
~~~ Proud Reaper License Owner! ~~~
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05-14-2014, 01:21 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Newcastle - UK
Posts: 567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edkilp
Can't give you a number, but I would bet there are a lot of Windows users who would rather be on Linux, if it wasn't for the weakness in the audio/video dept. I love Linux, but I also don't want multiple computers or a dual boot on my system. So...if Reaper was to be made available for Linux, I would be pretty inclined use it.
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Maybe many would use, but how many would buy?
Aside from this though a working DAW is only one part of the equation. Working and supported stable low latency audio drivers? VST/AU plugins. all of these add up to a workflow and while Ubuntu and the other various flavours of *nix are great OS's they don't provide (Yet) a suitable audio/studio/editing workflow.
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05-14-2014, 04:41 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 623
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REAPER was one of the reasons, if not the primary reason, I moved back to Windows from Linux. SuSE Foundation 11.
The problems with hardware interfaces would be manifold, same for plugins. I would certainly give it a try if everything worked nicely.
REAPER's stability on Windows is legendary, I think I've managed to crash it once in the last 5 years, thanks to a buggy plugin. No need for Linux in that department.
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05-14-2014, 05:47 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philait
Maybe many would use, but how many would buy?
Aside from this though a working DAW is only one part of the equation. Working and supported stable low latency audio drivers? VST/AU plugins. all of these add up to a workflow and while Ubuntu and the other various flavours of *nix are great OS's they don't provide (Yet) a suitable audio/studio/editing workflow.
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I think a lot would buy. I would. The Reaper price is low enough for what you're getting. I've already bought for windows so why wouldn't I buy it for another OS. I absolutely would.
There are (currently anyways) less pieces of audio hardware supported with Linux. However there are some and the ones that are supported are good ones. I used the first one that I knew worked and it ended up being plug and play (M-Audio Delta Audiophile 192). And really all you need is one. In Linux with Ardour as the DAW this one will go all the way down to 32 samples for 0.7 ms latency pretty smoothly. I don't think it will go this low in my XP boot. I have a Neve 1073 pre running into this converter and it sounds as good as I could hope for and I think the interface is less than $100. So there maybe aren't a LOT of options but the ones that do exist are proven to work very well.
Last edited by 777funk; 05-14-2014 at 06:03 AM.
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05-14-2014, 08:21 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alextone
I'm using Reaper in wine/linux 64bit without problems. (Wine-rt-64bit 1.6.2, Debian Jessie 64bit)
That includes several Kontakt 5 instances using about 26-28GB of ram for my orchestral sample libs.
Alex.
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How about if this linux setup is running on a 64 core machine or maybe a 512 core machine? Then Reaper Wine might be really tasty!
See http://www.parallella.org/
General info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform
__________________
It's all just an intro until the bass starts. quote from prezbass
Last edited by merdave; 05-14-2014 at 08:34 AM.
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05-14-2014, 09:06 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 346
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Ha I never even considered using it in WINE until today. I just tried it and the latency is pretty ridiculous (4000 samples) but it runs great even the plugins run pretty well. I could probably rig up a live monitoring setup (mixer or whatever) and it'd be useable to track with in a pinch. Or... another idea just hit... I could render stems in Reaper, track in Ardour then import the tracking file(s) back into reaper for editing. Seems like a lot of hassle that way though.
But one can wish for a dedicated Linux version though right!
Last edited by 777funk; 05-14-2014 at 09:18 AM.
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05-14-2014, 09:12 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nashville
Posts: 360
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I would love to see Reaper running natively on Linux. Ubuntu Studio is a fantastic OS, and runs VERY quickly. I used to have my Macbook Pro running Ubuntu Studio exclusively until I had to put Mavericks on it so I could use Reaper for a mobile rig.
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05-14-2014, 09:24 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merdave
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There's a CRAY joke in there somewhere........
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05-14-2014, 09:32 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 777funk
Ha I never even considered using it in WINE until today. I just tried it and the latency is pretty ridiculous (4000 samples) but it runs great even the plugins run pretty well. I could probably rig up a live monitoring setup (mixer or whatever) and it'd be useable to track with in a pinch. Or... another idea just hit... I could render stems in Reaper, track in Ardour then import the tracking file(s) back into reaper for editing. Seems like a lot of hassle that way though.
But one can wish for a dedicated Linux version though right!
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I'm a little surprised it's as much as 4000. But i assume from this you've just tried it out, and not tweaked your system further. I have little need to play the extreme latency game as i'm doing nearly all midi, so my system is running at 48000/256 comfortably, and is stable. (Debian-rt-64bit kernel from the Debian Sid repos)
The issue of running plugins, i.e. VST, in a native linux system, is possible to achieve. There are a couple of linux audio projects that have created wrappers that deal with this.
Have a look at the KXstudio website for just one example.
As far as video playback goes, there's an excellent app called xjadeo (with Jack transport sync) that gives the user the opportunity. The dev, Robin Gareus, worked on the video for Ardour, and knows his stuff.
If Reaper goes native (not commando) then there will likely be a clamour to include lv2 plugins, and possibly ladspa too. I don't know if that's a good idea or not, but if such a thing were to happen, the plugin choices for users would increase dramatically.
Alex.
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05-14-2014, 09:41 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,195
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I wasted a year doing Music on different kind of debian distros. I will never go back.
The main problem for me was jack contra pulse audio and USB interface. Total mess. I could live with the lack of supported devices.
If not doing Music Ubuntu is very nice though.
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05-14-2014, 11:34 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,227
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frankly, the obstacle for me is all the peripheral stuff in linux, not the audio end of things. i run four monitors, three through a triplehead2go and a large (47") wall mounted for sync to picture. this all works great in either windows or mac but was pretty much impossible to get set up properly in ubuntu or any other linux i tried. too bad. would love to see a reaper/lightworks one-two punch for linux in this kind of environment.
BabaG
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05-20-2014, 05:29 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Location: South Hadley, MA
Posts: 115
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ReactOS
Just to plug yet another alternative OS. I decided to load the current version of ReactOS into VirtualBox. And then, I loaded the 32-bit version of Reaper on it. So far, so good (only started to check functionality - not done yet). Since WinXP support is dead, you may want to consider replacing it with ReactOS and seeing if Reaper behaves well enough for day to day use.
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05-21-2014, 09:13 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edkilp
Can't give you a number, but I would bet there are a lot of Windows users who would rather be on Linux, if it wasn't for the weakness in the audio/video dept. I love Linux, but I also don't want multiple computers or a dual boot on my system. So...if Reaper was to be made available for Linux, I would be pretty inclined use it.
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There needs to be a LIKE button for me to click.
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05-22-2014, 07:20 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Alkimos, Western Australia
Posts: 159
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I'm pretty sure you can get Harrison Mixbus for Linux -- it is commercial software built on top of Ardour -- they added a really cool analog-style, 8 buss mixing desk to the program. They offer some plugins as well for extra dollars. It's not really a fully fledged DAW but you can do some stuff in it pretty easily and it seems to sound good -- sort of analog colouring.
The first DAW I used was Ardour but it was difficult to learn although it was stable. And getting my head around Jack was also hard work. To this day my preferred OS is Ubuntu Studio and I have been running Linux OSs of all types for over a decade -- generally of the Debian strand like Mepis and Ubuntu. I have usually used Windows for Pro Tools and now Reaper which I am quickly switching over to from PT 8 LE. I also use a MAC but the free plugin world is a lot smaller and I do love my Epicverb and Nasty DLA VSTs.
I've done a quick search and it looks like Behringer have a free DAW for Linux in Beta stage. Link here -- it's called Traktion.
http://www.tracktion.com/?linux
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05-22-2014, 08:22 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,371
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Linux is great for certain applications, for me they are mostly headless server apps.
I've tried using Linux desktops since the early slackware releases on 386 based machines, and none of them have ever made me want to leave Windows.
I'm currently evaluating all kinds of Linux distributions for work to replace XP machines on old hardware, there are a few packaged distributions that are great for minimal use desktops (light weight, low performance hardware), however if you go with the more popular and later releases like mint 16 cinnamon they are pretty piggish out of the box.
I have a netbook that came with Windows 7 starter edition, that was dreadfully slow. I put XP on it and it is functional and fast enough to use for browsing the web, watching youtube or Netflix. I put Mint 16 on it and it is slower than it was with Windows 7 Starter edition - Youtube videos are buffering and freezing and web pages are loading slow, Java and flash just decimate the thing.
I also tried a few different releases made for audio, like Ubuntu Studio. The issue I had with those is that there was way too much tinkering around to get things to work and I spent more time working out the kinks than I did actually mixing.
The promise of a Linux desktop for the masses has been around for as long as the internet has, I just don't think it is going to happen. Mint is pretty close if you run it on modern hardware, which if you want to compare it to Windows 7 you should be doing anyway, but I still find myself opening terminal windows and running sudo commands to get some things done.
It's the Geek OS, it's for servers and people who still know how to use a command line interface and have the technical ability to resolve issues and dependencies. If you look at it from a software vendor's point of view, it's a nightmare. Can you imagine if Reaper did release a Linux version? How many Linux newbies would that create, and who is going to hold their hand through learning a new OS?
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05-22-2014, 08:37 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Hamm
Linux is great for certain applications, for me they are mostly headless server apps.
I've tried using Linux desktops since the early slackware releases on 386 based machines, and none of them have ever made me want to leave Windows.
I'm currently evaluating all kinds of Linux distributions for work to replace XP machines on old hardware, there are a few packaged distributions that are great for minimal use desktops (light weight, low performance hardware), however if you go with the more popular and later releases like mint 16 cinnamon they are pretty piggish out of the box.
I have a netbook that came with Windows 7 starter edition, that was dreadfully slow. I put XP on it and it is functional and fast enough to use for browsing the web, watching youtube or Netflix. I put Mint 16 on it and it is slower than it was with Windows 7 Starter edition - Youtube videos are buffering and freezing and web pages are loading slow, Java and flash just decimate the thing.
I also tried a few different releases made for audio, like Ubuntu Studio. The issue I had with those is that there was way too much tinkering around to get things to work and I spent more time working out the kinks than I did actually mixing.
The promise of a Linux desktop for the masses has been around for as long as the internet has, I just don't think it is going to happen. Mint is pretty close if you run it on modern hardware, which if you want to compare it to Windows 7 you should be doing anyway, but I still find myself opening terminal windows and running sudo commands to get some things done.
It's the Geek OS, it's for servers and people who still know how to use a command line interface and have the technical ability to resolve issues and dependencies. If you look at it from a software vendor's point of view, it's a nightmare. Can you imagine if Reaper did release a Linux version? How many Linux newbies would that create, and who is going to hold their hand through learning a new OS?
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I use Ubuntu 12.04 and it flies compared to Win XP and Win 7. It's a much more enjoyable day to day use OS than either in my opinion. I have a dual boot (mostly for Reaper btw) but I always dread booting into XP when I have to. I've got shortcuts configured in Ubuntu that make everything I do pretty much an extension of my brain instead of clicking around with the mouse and fishing through menus in Windows. And Networking... don't get me started on it. Linux's networking has been a lot more intuitive and reliable than XP and especially 7 (in the intuitive end of things).
But that's just my experience. All I know is on my machine, Ubuntu is WAY faster than either Windows product. Programs load faster, internet pages load quicker, even the CPU fan runs a lot less.
I'd say I spent about a month getting acquainted with Ubuntu so it wasn't all that difficult. It's as complex and adaptable as the user would like it to be (much like Reaper). The more features you want to carve into it, they're there if you want to dive in.
In my opinion it's a very good OS.
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05-22-2014, 09:18 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 232
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The number issue with linux and now OS X Mav as well is it's free!!
For developers there is no incentive to make critical pro applications for an OS that has not company in front it facing issues since it's free there is no more commitment .
If you look at the current top Video, Graphics, 3D, Colour grading, Audio Daws it's all on Windows, most of those tools are not even available for the Mac's anymore.
Basically we are all faced with running all the critical applications for multimedia on Windows as Apple is making cell phones and left all the Pro's in the dust with the Mac Desktops ( Desktops is where serious work is done)
As a big linux user myself ( Ubuntu) I am sad that Developers are not taking Linux seriously for Pro media work. There are some companies like Autodesk ( Ie Maya) that make Apps for Linux however committed only to Red Hat.
I say in a few years you will not be able to buy Desktop computers as most retail stores will not carry them and we will be forced to either build them ourselves or order them custom made online
I think after Apple left the desktops behind, the multimedia software world is incredibly full of fierce competition. This was not the case when Apple was dominant.
So yes we have tons to software now but Machines are getting harder to find specially desktops.
I only hope that the linux forks stop altogether, it is hurting linux and is the number one reason why Developers like Adobe, Avid and many others are staying away from Linux.
In order for Linux to be taken seriously Adobe must bring all their applications natively to it.
Adobe is very critical for Video and Graphics, so is Avid with Media Composer and Protools.
Sony Vegas, Edius I can go on and on.
Those tools have to come to Linux.... Somewhere over the rainbow....
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05-22-2014, 10:44 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Hamm
It's the Geek OS, it's for servers and people who still know how to use a command line interface and have the technical ability to resolve issues and dependencies. If you look at it from a software vendor's point of view, it's a nightmare. Can you imagine if Reaper did release a Linux version? How many Linux newbies would that create, and who is going to hold their hand through learning a new OS?
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I am one of those geeks you're referring and you hit the nail directly on the head. I teach a Linux class some of the technically astute students still have a hard time grasping some parts of Linux.
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05-22-2014, 11:04 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 509
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I still Believe in Linux
Some of the Linux distros are easier to run than Windows, so I don't think Linux is off the charts for professional software development.
The world's supercomputers are Linux operating systems. And yet, Puppy Linux and similar are almost easy enough for a child to learn. Since there are some distros even made for kids, maybe it IS easy enough for a child to learn.
But I agree with some of the comments made about analyses of why the multimedia pro market isn't Linux yet.
I feel that if the Linux Community successfully made VST(i) support without kludges/hacks/tons of adapters then there would be a nice healthy swelling of people willing to check out Linux. And they would newbies to Linux, but not newbies to computers. That is a big difference. I used to be a newbie to Linux, but Puppy Linux was much easier to set up than any other OS for me, including Macs. And I feel that at the end of the day, it's much more user friendly.
I started with LiveCD's and it was a short walk over a few months to do a dual boot system of two different Puppy Linuxes (Precise, and Puppy Studio/Ubuntu Studio Puppy). Now it's starting to feel comfortable with WINE.
Believe me, if something like the Puppy Linux (Precise distro)and maybe Mint Linux distros picked up a quick and healthy version of VST(i) support native to Linux, then it would radically change the pro world of multimedia stuff. A lot of people would jump onboard.
I have even seen people say at other music sites, if Linux support was just a bit better, then they'd ditch Windows overnight.
I ditched Windows because PuppyLinux Precise LiveCD ran flawlessly every single time even though Windows 7 failed to boot, and even failed to boot into a repair install or install environment on the CD-ROM!!!
Linux's Ext2, Ext3, Ext4, FAT32, and NTFS support made it easy to save my old files and archives and folders and gParted included with Linux made it easy to reformat my drives.
WINEASIO ane WINE RT (RealTime) are getting better all the time and the FeSTige VST support is better than nothing. I have more confidence in the Linux gurus than the Windows gurus. Someday somebody is going to figure out how to put it all together in a way that's not so complex or they will write code to simplify the working complexities. Why? Because that's what Linux LiveCD's distros did with everything else!!!!!!!
If you haven't tried some of the extremely friendly and harmless Linux LiveCD distros, then you don't fully know how much a relief it will be to be rid of Windows dependencies.
As for Apple, Google, and Microsoft... I agree that they are more concerned with making inroads in the tablet and smartphone markets. But don't forget that Android is Linux OS!!!!
But yeah, they are neglecting the desktop computer markets because they know that it takes more dedication and seriousness to make a stable and pro desktop that is versatile.
A typical 25 dollar Samsung cellphone is not the same as a desktop media workstation.
We just need more pro programmers working on the few remaining technical slowdowns in Linux about pro audio. And then to disseminate the results enough that everybody else jumps on board.
And NO... Commercialisation is NOT the answer. Making people pay for it is not going to enhance the engineering aspects. The VST standard is open source-like if not actually open source, and look at how successful that is!!!
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05-22-2014, 01:16 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nystagmus
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The world's supercomputers are Linux operating systems. And yet, Puppy Linux and similar are almost easy enough for a child to learn. Since there are some distros even made for kids, maybe it IS easy enough for a child to learn.
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Amen to everything you just said... I'm chiming in only to say that all my kids can and DO run linux every day. Our living room's multimedia computer runs puppy and they all know how to run it. I have one that just turned 4 and even at 3 years old he was able to navigate videos. My 5 year old was able to browse the network with ease to find what he wanted to watch.
So it really isn't something that takes a Geek... just a 3 year old with a little smarts who wants to watch a ripped DVD. I only had to show them the steps to find the video folder over our network once or twice and they were good to go.
We put Puppy on this machine (and deleted the XP partition) because Puppy Linux did everything we needed it to do (Play DVD's and stream our stored videos over the network) faster and easier than XP did.
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05-22-2014, 04:51 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Alkimos, Western Australia
Posts: 159
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I think the criticism that Linux is a Geek only OS is an old one that doesn't hold up today -- maybe ten to fifteen years ago that was more the case.
Still, I got my first ever PC in 2002 at the age of 27 with Windows 95 on it and within 6 months I had moved on to Linux, so maybe I'm a born Geek. With Ubuntu releases you really don't ever need to open a terminal anymore. I know there are still plenty of Geekier distros around but with Ubuntu the system is very easy to install and run and usually works well on just about anything you put it on. On occasion, in the past, I have had problems with driver issues on some notebooks (that I always managed to solve) but I have found that to be less and less the case in recent times.
The problem with Windows is (I have Windows 7 on two machines) that every time you turn it on -- if it is connected to the NET -- you have to update its anti-virus, its anti-malware, its anti-spyware and usually something else like Adobe. Don't get me started on the registry cleaning and defragging. But I only really use it to run my DAWs. Ubuntu updates are about two clicks and painless. I am on a Mac Book Pro in OS X Mountain Lion at the moment (it's ok I guess) but prefer Ubuntu Studio as my day-to-day system for browsing the NET.
Ardour isn't a bad DAW, just a little unfinished and the routing is not intuitive but you can make music with it -- and I have. But yeah having access to VSTs is a big thing.
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06-01-2014, 07:03 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 346
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I just tried it in WINE and after getting Jack to work properly and getting WINEASIO, I'm getting almost the same performance in Linux as I am in XP. I even loaded EZDrummer 2.0 in WINE and it runs great! I've heard Reason works too but haven't tried it yet.
I was pretty surprised.
I can't set the buffer size to 256 like in XP without X-runs. I can in Ardour and even lower. But 512 runs pretty well. CPU and RAM is about the same in Windows vs Linux.
I think the problem is WINE/Jack related. But it's working and useable.
Also, someone mentioned lack of compatible Linux Audio hardware... looks like there's PLENTY! I think there are 30-40 interfaces listed here.
http://www.linuxstudiopro.com/
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06-01-2014, 07:30 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,987
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Until Reaper run native on Linux you can give Tracktion 5 a try.
It has Linux support and as of speaking the Linux version is free.
Even though the Linux page on the Tracktion website lists version 4 the actual download page take you to the current version 5 so i guess their website needs some updating.
Other paid commercial options are obviously Bitwig and Renoise.
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in my humble opinion of course
Cray XC40
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06-02-2014, 06:33 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franV
Until Reaper run native on Linux you can give Tracktion 5 a try.
It has Linux support and as of speaking the Linux version is free.
Even though the Linux page on the Tracktion website lists version 4 the actual download page take you to the current version 5 so i guess their website needs some updating.
Other paid commercial options are obviously Bitwig and Renoise.
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Yeah I noticed that Behringer has the download on their site. Really I have no gripes about Ardour other than that I don't feel like learning a new software and I would miss Superior Drummer / EZDrummer 2.0, Reason, etc.
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06-02-2014, 07:35 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 777funk
I just tried it in WINE and after getting Jack to work properly and getting WINEASIO, I'm getting almost the same performance in Linux as I am in XP.....
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This is exactly what I was referring to. You jumped through some hoops and you are getting 'almost' the same performance as a Windows OS that is twelve years old, and there are still some kinks to iron out.
It's just not practical to think that the average person will want to toil through all of that when most people have access to Windows XP or newer on their PC already. It either has to 'just work' or offer a substantial improvement in performance to make it a viable option.
I think some people that want to jump on the Linux bandwagon do so because they have been sold on the idea that it is 'free'. Linux isn't free once you start considering all of the man hours that go into making it work. If you compare that to someone who bought a shrink wrapped version of Windows XP 12 years ago for $189 that they are still using, then it has cost them only $15.75 a year up to this point to run it. If XP is still outperforming Linux for Windows Apps (such as Reaper and VSTs) then why would anyone want to run it?
A linux desktop might be viable if you were using all Linux apps, but that just doesn't happen all that often in the real world. I'm sure there are all kinds of people that find valid uses for a linux desktop at home, but there are not too many cases of it being used in a business environment.
Linux is a great platform for Servers and Workstations that have apps written for their intended purpose, and it does function as a desktop with some of the current distributions that are out there today - the problem is that most people can have someone (or themselves) tune up their Windows OS quite easily, but will have a hard time finding someone that can help them with their Linux OS. I'm sure that there are people out there that can tweak a Linux desktop and get it to perform as good as or better than a moderately tuned Windows desktop, but for the most part, I'd say that most Linux Desktops that find their way onto PC's are installed on older PCs and are just 'out of the box' installations.
Linux is great at what it does, I don't think there is any question about that. Running Windows applications on a Linux Desktop though is kind of like shaving a sheep and putting lipstick on it and saying 'it works'.
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06-02-2014, 07:45 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 390
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I have had Reaper running fine as a VSt instrument host for plugins in Debian. WineRt&Wineasio and properly security limits setup are a must for that.Only time I ever got X-runs was when opening and closing a plugin but not when using them.
That being said Im on windows 7 now. One thing I most miss about Linux is the multiple desktops.Its like having unlimited amount of monitors,almost.
If Reaper was on Linux and it had full vst and linux vst and LV2 support Id buy it.
Setting up Debian as a DAW use to mean compiling wine for RT and compiling wineasio ,well basically you had to roll it up yourself, but now. Just install Debian and go add KXStudio repo's to source list and install WineRT&WineAsio.
Your ready to roll.As long as audio hardware work properly.
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06-02-2014, 07:26 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,019
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I'm speaking from ignorance, but it seems like the biggest issues with a taking Linux seriously for something like REAPER would be drivers and 3rd-party plugins.
Am I wrong in thinking that a Linux REAPER would have problems supporting popular audio interfaces and plugins?
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06-02-2014, 07:40 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratotak
I have had Reaper running fine as a VSt instrument host for plugins in Debian. WineRt&Wineasio and properly security limits setup are a must for that.Only time I ever got X-runs was when opening and closing a plugin but not when using them.
That being said Im on windows 7 now. One thing I most miss about Linux is the multiple desktops.Its like having unlimited amount of monitors,almost.
If Reaper was on Linux and it had full vst and linux vst and LV2 support Id buy it.
Setting up Debian as a DAW use to mean compiling wine for RT and compiling wineasio ,well basically you had to roll it up yourself, but now. Just install Debian and go add KXStudio repo's to source list and install WineRT&WineAsio.
Your ready to roll.As long as audio hardware work properly.
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Interesting Stratotak... Do you think Debian works better than Ubuntu for Reaper? I logged in using XFCE and it ran faster than in Ubuntu. That's one other nice thing about Linux, you have choices how fancy or bare bones you want the OS to be each time you log in. Options... you don't get that with Windows and you definitely have to go along with Apples blueprint to the letter if you want to use their products. I like freedom and flexibility... exactly the reason I switched from the "industry standard" PT to Reaper. I don't care if PT is the industry standard, I don't like the proprietary feeling I get from Digi. Reaper works just as well and better in a lot of ways, and I can do what I want with it... freedom and flexibility.
to user Yep: check out my post a few back (Post #29). There are about 30-40 interfaces listed in that Linux link I gave. Really all you need is one good one when it comes down to it. M-Audio's Delta products are very good cheap ones. I also have an Echo AudioFire 4 that's a great interface for just a little more. With my Neve pre going into the line inputs, both sound the same to my ears. I had a Presonus Firepod and I sold it because I felt these two both had better audio quality.
To Andy Hamm: No harm meant in this, but you're not comparing Apples to Apples. You're talking Windows software running in Windows compared to Windows software running in Linux... an OS that it wasn't designed for. If I use Chrome in Linux and Chrome in Windows XP (both written for their proper OS's) the Linux Chrome absolutely smokes the XP version. Also, a real Apples to Apples comparison, Ardour (a Linux DAW) can achieve lower latency/buffer settings with the same hardware (including interface) than what I can get in XP. I haven't tested this thoroughly yet but so far that's what I've found. Reaper is designed for Windows so I'd expect it to have some trouble running in Linux. I'm surprised it works as good as it does. If there were a real Linux version, it'd FLY I'm sure. Seems like the VSTs and VSTi's (including Toontrack's EZ Drummer) also work well using WINE. I'm not a programmer but I'd guess there'd be a way to setup Reaper to run regular VST's without trouble. They use exactly the same CPU numbers in WINE as they do in Windows.
Last edited by 777funk; 06-02-2014 at 08:01 PM.
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06-07-2014, 07:40 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 708
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Ever want a super-computer for Reaper?
Take a look at
http://www.parallella.org/2014/06/03...my-spare-time/
Runs with Linux OS. Could this be the future of Desktop Computing?
BTY you will be able to drop in 64 core boards if you have the $$$!
__________________
It's all just an intro until the bass starts. quote from prezbass
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06-07-2014, 09:39 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 505
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Tracktion isn't Behringer software, Behringer is just bundling codes for redemption.
http://www.tracktion.com/
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06-07-2014, 11:41 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5,635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Hamm
Linux is great for certain applications, for me they are mostly headless server apps.
I've tried using Linux desktops since the early slackware releases on 386 based machines, and none of them have ever made me want to leave Windows.
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Exactly. I'm neck deep in Linux every day (RHEL-MRG, specifically), and not once did it ever occur to me to use it on my desktop. Linux sucks on the desktop. MINT is the only distribution I've seen that didn't make me want to pull my hair out.
A native Linux port would cause more problems that it would solve, and slow down development for everyone else.
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06-07-2014, 12:06 PM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merdave
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As of now, only for the people competent enough to build like that and who also have programming skills to actually benefit from the parallel system.
The term supercomputer is somewhat questionable too, depending on what you would compare it with. The one presented in the link has 8 Parallella boards and achieves the max performance of 208 GFLOPS. That would almost match some real supercomputers from the mid-90s. Teraflop barrier was also broken around that time and current supercomputers are in the petaflop category. From current regular processors, eg. Dual Xeon E5 2650 achieves already 262 GFLOPS, more than said Parallella "supercomputer".
It seems the regulars in Parallella forum say that it can provide a big performance and efficiency boost, but only for the applications which are able to use them. So it seems more like a lab tool for the programmers who want to learn about parallel programming, rather than a computer for the regular individuals who would like to just get the performance benefits. It could as well be assumed (or at least hoped for) that regular commercial boards will keep up with the times and offer reasonable performance while not requiring white coat to work with them.
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06-07-2014, 12:45 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 708
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I'm talking about a desktop "super-computer" of the near future ( a few years) with 64 cores that is affordable (~$2000) that could run Reaper in Linux and is only about 20" by 12". And could be expanded to 512 cores for ~$4,000 just by replacing the 8 cards.
What is pictured is just a prototype but a good one. Runs on 120 watts -like a light bulb.
Software always lags behind new hardware - nothing new.
I wonder how many cores Reaper could use concurrently?
__________________
It's all just an intro until the bass starts. quote from prezbass
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