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Old 01-08-2015, 07:50 PM   #121
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No touchiness lawrence maybe just a mild weariness at the repeated observation that fr creep will happen as if its a point worthy of analysis.

Yes it will!

Then nothing else will happen. No kittens will be harmed.

Folk will feature request, developers will develop. Perhaps taking into account their overall feel of the userbase's opinions.

Its ok!
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:52 PM   #122
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I'd just like to know what the devs WANT to do with this... I don't follow the forusm so maybe I miss it, but are these requests that they are feeling forced to fullfill or are they just adding this on to make their personal mini-projects easier? I would always prefer the devs are having fun with it. Just curious what the climate is like at the office.
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:27 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_After View Post
If it ends like you describe - yes, it's a waste of time. But I prefer to be optimistic. but, even being optimistic, there is no doubt that Cockos will need more manpower than today to manage audio-video editing software. If they decide just to play with some features and leave video as ever-unfinished bonus, it'll be a shame. Time will tell.
It would only be a shame BECAUSE there's a lot of big things that are on people's whishlists, and video dev time could have been put to implementing those features. It would be shame BECAUSE video would then just become yet another thing that never gets fully realized. If REAPER was more what people would want it to be, then putting in video features (and never fully realizing them) would be way more acceptable and welcomed.

That's why it would be a shame. Make no mistake! There's nothing shameful about video features. I think it's awesome personally. But I did want PIP.... RIP PIP... heh j/k
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Old 01-09-2015, 02:00 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Argitoth View Post
It would only be a shame BECAUSE there's a lot of big things that are on people's whishlists, and video dev time could have been put to implementing those features. It would be shame BECAUSE video would then just become yet another thing that never gets fully realized. If REAPER was more what people would want it to be, then putting in video features (and never fully realizing them) would be way more acceptable and welcomed.

That's why it would be a shame. Make no mistake! There's nothing shameful about video features. I think it's awesome personally. But I did want PIP.... RIP PIP... heh j/k
I really like new video features and I am hoping for more. My favorite DAW can now become my favorite video editor - life couldn't be better. Whan I am saying "it would be shame" I mean that I don't want developers to leave video features unfinished or abandon them, that's all.
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Old 01-09-2015, 06:34 AM   #125
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No kittens will be harmed.
Save the kittens.

I was only having a laugh with MBN, not complaining about anything. I think the pre-discussion / tug of war has somewhat affected our sense of humor. It wasn't that serious. I would have a related chuckle about this from the post above...

Quote:
and video dev time could have been put to implementing those features.
... but apparently that joke has worn somewhat thin so... I won't.

It's all good Ben. Love ya like a play cousin.
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Old 01-09-2015, 08:48 AM   #126
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Question: I asked before but never got an answer. Can you automate the text? I was trying to make text zoom in or something. It appears not (yet?). Thanks.

Also, how do you do picture in picture? I saw (I think I saw) someone here do it, like how would I overlay another video in that same frame?

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Old 01-09-2015, 11:05 AM   #127
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Question: I asked before but never got an answer. Can you automate the text? I was trying to make text zoom in or something. It appears not (yet?). Thanks.
code in a zoom feature. that could become its own knob called "zoom" and it would affect text size and x/y position. also would be helpful is a switch to say whether the position is the middle,center,left-upper side etc. of the text.
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:08 AM   #128
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I can make it zoom manually with the "height" and X/Y knobs but I was trying to make it zoom in real time during playback.

If that can be done in the LUA code it's over my head. Would be nice though, not anything really fancy, just basic text animation with automation. You don't need very much for some good impact, a little text movement and some sound FX.

Since we're doing it anyway... my FR's for the general basics for text would be...

1. Drop Shadows. Kinda gotta have that for many things.
2. Basic X/Y/Size Automation: With those automated you can emulate all kinds of fly ins or outs and stuff like that.
3. And maybe allow editing text outside of the video frame, to slide stuff fully into and out of the frame.

With those three things you'll be able to pull off some pretty convincing title graphic sequences with the editor. The only other thing for text that would fill out that "basic" list is rotation.

Going beyond that, maybe allow PNG overlays, like doing text in a graphic editor and laying it over the frame, which would kinda eliminate the necessity of having the editor do all kinds of text manipulation as relates to color, border, etc, etc.

Edit: I mean, a lot of the other stuff is cool, but maybe kinda corner case, the weird special effects stuff that's cool for a few minutes but gets boring after awhile, while text is maybe more basic.

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Old 01-09-2015, 11:32 AM   #129
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Lawrence -

in the >track< with the text overlay video FX on you should have the paramaters show as automatable in an envelope lane. maybe you havce it as an item fx as that would not yield any automatation at the mo?

its a little confusing as to where best to put the video fx (item fx or track fx) and what affect it has but it'll become clear in time i hope.


anyway just checked and with video processor as track FX you can draw in zoom and x/y envelopes to make text fly around, although the text looks a littel rubbish at the mo as has been mentioned.
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:39 AM   #130
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Ah, shit.

I thought the video processors only worked as item FX. Thanks.

Ok, this might be fun to play with.

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Old 01-09-2015, 11:43 AM   #131
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no probs me old mucker/play cousin

shame the text looks like it was chisseled by a man with a flint tool ..

edit:
should be able to 'bodge' a drop shadow with a copy of the main text, dark colour, offset a bit and alpha'd ?
edit2: yes if the 'shadow' version is first in chain, works well. some blurring wouldn't go amiss < ME WANT MORE THINGS!
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:50 AM   #132
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should be able to 'bodge' a drop shadow with a copy of the main text, dark colour, offset a bit and alpha'd ?
Yeah, I was thinking exactly that. Not ideal but probably workable. I need to figure out how to make black text first though.

Nothing in the code is jumping out at me like RGB or HEX codes for the text color.
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:54 AM   #133
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quick test just then i twiddled the 'text bright' param
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:57 AM   #134
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quick test just then i twiddled the 'text bright' param
Ah yeah. You are truly "Maximus Tutorius".



Thanks.

And yeah, the text looks like it has a hangover, rough around the edges, but still fun to play with.

This all could end up being something nice, depending on how far they want to go with it, and especially if they make a better UI for editing.

So Maximus, give me the lowdown. Can you play two videos at once or will it only play one at a time? If the former, I might experiment with some graphic overlays as PNG from Corel Draw and similar. Can you use a "still" as a frame for that?

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Old 01-09-2015, 12:01 PM   #135
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nah just a minute ahead of you in the head scratch curve i think.

Reavision:

something to do with checking out booty?

(check me using american terms 'like a boss')
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Old 01-09-2015, 12:25 PM   #136
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Ok, here's what I did.

The frame (the animation there) is 720x480 so I made a correcty sized graphic frame with text in Corel, imported it another track, and used chroma on it. It worked well and while the rendering of that png graphic text is still a little edgy, it's not nearly as bad.

One thing that came up which might be an FR, dunno, I never used graphics on the timeline in Reaper before ... but as I changed that picture in Corel and saved it again to the same file, I couldn't find any way to make Reaper "refresh" that image on it's timeline even though the source file had changed. To get the updated image I had to delete it and re-import it and add the FX again.




Now that I have some basic feel for how all this works, I'm gonna try to mock up something with video and audio and see what happens. One thing for sure, this is way more fun than slogging through LUA docs.

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Old 01-09-2015, 01:50 PM   #137
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Default ReaVision™



Couldn't help it sorry
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Old 01-11-2015, 10:14 AM   #138
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I think that the best way to work in video is insert video plugins in take fx and not in tracks.

Is possible to have envelopes of the videoplugins insert in take fx in media lane?

Is possible to have "glue items" and "render items" work also for video track and not only for audio?

mmm ...I think... if when video track is imported the possybility to activate the video processor directly on the take like mute or lock option would be fantastic... or somthing like that

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Old 01-11-2015, 10:35 AM   #139
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ah.... I forget... colour correction please!!!!
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Old 01-11-2015, 10:50 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcostenik View Post
I think that the best way to work in video is insert video plugins in take fx and not in tracks.

Is possible to have envelopes of the videoplugins insert in take fx in media lane?

Is possible to have "glue items" and "render items" work also for video track and not only for audio?

mmm ...I think... if when video track is imported the possybility to activate the video processor directly on the take like mute or lock option would be fantastic... or somthing like that
I find it better to have the videoplugin on items too and it works well most of the time, even text overlya and naming it works if you put the text on an empty midi item You do have to change the text and then "save" with control+S though but allows each empty midi item to have different words in it.

Would obviously like all of those and I'm hoping envelopes on take fx should come at some point. Probably a tricky one to get right so might take a while.

Gluing (or "rendering") would be awesome!
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Old 01-11-2015, 01:28 PM   #141
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i agree that plugins should be set up at the item level. question, though: how would this work with 'glue items?' if the items have different plugins, how do they get combined? do they? does the first one take precedence? just asking.

thanks,
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Old 01-11-2015, 01:33 PM   #142
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But see my previous goof up. You can't automate anything at the item level so it kinda restricts what you can do with it.

So track level seems a better (or more flexible) choice for video FX unless they'll be static, then it doesn't matter.
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Old 01-11-2015, 02:23 PM   #143
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But see my previous goof up. You can't automate anything at the item level so it kinda restricts what you can do with it.

So track level seems a better (or more flexible) choice for video FX unless they'll be static, then it doesn't matter.
That's why I'm hoping for the ability to automate take fx on the item.

Apart from that though, I found that if you add video FX to an empty midi item it effects the video tracks above/below it (depending on prefs) which means you can change the video fx settings per midi item and sequence them that way.

(like "adjustment layers" in premiere.)

This method works for text too, so you can have different text per item. (if you locally save the file for each one)

Obviously not as good as "keyframes/automation" but a start
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Old 01-11-2015, 03:17 PM   #144
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there is a fundamental distinction between the way audio and video tracks generally work that needs to be considered here, particularly in the case of reaper, where the userbase is primarily music-oriented.

in music, one generally devotes a track to an instrument and segregates the project in that way for organizational purposes. if one track has only one instrument, you're going to be fine putting the effects on the track.

if, however, tracks are an amalgam of lots of different types of materials, as tends to be the case with much video, you could end up with a ridiculous number of effects on the track requiring a LOT of automation when the image cuts between subjects. it would be rare to separate, in picture editing, different characters onto different tracks for the picture. the audio, yes, the picture, no. for this reason it would be much better, workflow-wise, to design a video engine that accommodates this distinction between visual and aural media types.

on the other hand, if the application is designed such that EVERYTHING is handled at the item level, then tracks become less important and the app can really transcend the analogy to multitrack tape by allowing the mixing of visual and aural media into the same tracks. tracks become agnostic to the media type and become mere recepticals for any type of content. this can open the workflow considerably. probably a step further than anyone's going to go here at the moment but it does deserve consideration, i think, when getting into new areas. too often major changes, not specifically reaper, are not fully considered or thought through before design and implementation. it makes for frustration in all quarters later.

i'd suggest first looking at what the ultimate intent is for video in reaper. is it a tool for music editors, composers? where do sound designers and post people fit in? what do purely picture editors have to say? they could have valuable insight as to workflow and technique, even if the intent is not aimed at their needs. i doubt that anyone is doing that.

thanks,
BabaG
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Old 01-11-2015, 03:22 PM   #145
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Also, how do you do picture in picture? I saw (I think I saw) someone here do it, like how would I overlay another video in that same frame?
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...80#post1452080

A few posts further down Adam shared the code.
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Old 01-11-2015, 03:45 PM   #146
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I suppose unlike in audio where fx happen mainly at the track level in video stuff like even basic fx, color correction, gamma and hue adjustment etc would happen on a per clip or item basis as in other video editors?

This all leads to some interesting concepts like video fx sends or VCA automation controlling video, I wonder how that would work?

Gluing or freezing video tracks sounds like a great way to free up resources when editing many tracks and certainly ofx compatibility would free up resources since there are so many great plugins already available there.
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Old 01-14-2015, 04:18 AM   #147
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It would be great to have any video glitch or beat repeater fx.
And in perspective, this fxs affect to sound in video...
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:05 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...80#post1452080

A few posts further down Adam shared the code.
There's a built-in preset that does what mine did minus the cropping now too

Conceptually, all you are doing is resizing the current video, everything underneath is automatically rendered behind it. I didn't think of it this way at first and was trying to actually manipulate two videos at once. So picture-in-picture is really just making the current video smaller and revealing what's behind it. If you want to resize and reposition what's behind, resize and reposition it on it's own track. You don't have to think of there being any real relationship between the two videos.
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:33 PM   #149
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But see my previous goof up. You can't automate anything at the item level...
for now...

...for now
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Old 01-20-2015, 05:07 PM   #150
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The actor here should have changed clothes between takes and maybe donned an afro wig for the bass part and this would have been cooler.

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Old 01-21-2015, 02:42 AM   #151
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The actor here should have changed clothes between takes and maybe donned an afro wig for the bass part and this would have been cooler.
I want that video FX preset!!! Has it something to do with "show motion - subtract last frame"??
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:20 AM   #152
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I want that video FX preset!!! Has it something to do with "show motion - subtract last frame"??
I'll post that project in a bit
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:32 AM   #153
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I'll post that project in a bit
Woohoo! Thanks, Justin. I was actually one of the guys who fírst complained about the V in your DAW but now that editing video became waaaaay better than in 4.76 I'm totally stunned by the new possiblities we have
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Old 01-22-2015, 06:28 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by babag View Post
there is a fundamental distinction between the way audio and video tracks generally work that needs to be considered here, particularly in the case of reaper, where the userbase is primarily music-oriented.

in music, one generally devotes a track to an instrument and segregates the project in that way for organizational purposes. if one track has only one instrument, you're going to be fine putting the effects on the track.

if, however, tracks are an amalgam of lots of different types of materials, as tends to be the case with much video, you could end up with a ridiculous number of effects on the track requiring a LOT of automation when the image cuts between subjects. it would be rare to separate, in picture editing, different characters onto different tracks for the picture. the audio, yes, the picture, no. for this reason it would be much better, workflow-wise, to design a video engine that accommodates this distinction between visual and aural media types.

on the other hand, if the application is designed such that EVERYTHING is handled at the item level, then tracks become less important and the app can really transcend the analogy to multitrack tape by allowing the mixing of visual and aural media into the same tracks. tracks become agnostic to the media type and become mere recepticals for any type of content. this can open the workflow considerably. probably a step further than anyone's going to go here at the moment but it does deserve consideration, i think, when getting into new areas. too often major changes, not specifically reaper, are not fully considered or thought through before design and implementation. it makes for frustration in all quarters later.

i'd suggest first looking at what the ultimate intent is for video in reaper. is it a tool for music editors, composers? where do sound designers and post people fit in? what do purely picture editors have to say? they could have valuable insight as to workflow and technique, even if the intent is not aimed at their needs. i doubt that anyone is doing that.

thanks,
BabaG
All the above is of the greatest importance!

My thoughts -

1. The user base may be mostly music-oriented NOW, but there is a growing number of A-for-V guys using Reaper and the addition of video tools will enhance that greatly. I am really quite fribbled by this development!

2. There are two FX types in video, transitions and FX. I feel that Reaper could add enormous functionality, by allowing all media files (i.e. audio AND video) to access all FX either as a transition (temporary effect, usually on the part where one video file overlaps another) or as a set effect that says on all the time (e.g. colouring). Most video editing SW gets around this by having an FX track.

3. As we must by now all be painfully aware, music is either worthless (financially, that is!) or pretty close to being worthless. That leaves the door wide open for enterprising musicians, labels, studios and producers to stop faffing about, trying to earn a crust by releasing CDs and downloads and concentrating their efforts on making live concert videos and other multi-media products.

4. ADR (additional dialogue recording) is a major part of A-for-V and so far the only SW that nails it is Nuendo (which is a royal PITA to set up)and that largely, because it has those double 'wipe' bars to cue the VO artist or actor when to speak. OK, one can work around this in other SW, by creating your own wipes and placing them on the video, but it would nice to be able to just drop a marker on every cue and have that automatically generate a five-second two-bar wipe, every time the artist is suppose to open his or her face and speak.

5. What happens with video that has audio locked to it and things like stretch marks and edits that are not in both A and V? Will we have to separate them from the video, as in Premier?

6. I assume the video format is totally open-ended and depends solely on the V output hardware. 4K? Wide-screen 64:27 aspect ratio, PAL, NTSC and all the various fps rates, etc., etc.?

(On 5 & 6 - yes, I know I should just try the pre-release, but I have not had the time yet!)
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:54 AM   #155
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The actor here should have changed clothes between takes and maybe donned an afro wig for the bass part and this would have been cooler.

Beautiful kakofonie
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Old 01-27-2015, 09:42 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by The Byre View Post

4. ADR (additional dialogue recording) is a major part of A-for-V and so far the only SW that nails it is Nuendo (which is a royal PITA to set up)and that largely, because it has those double 'wipe' bars to cue the VO artist or actor when to speak. OK, one can work around this in other SW, by creating your own wipes and placing them on the video, but it would nice to be able to just drop a marker on every cue and have that automatically generate a five-second two-bar wipe, every time the artist is suppose to open his or her face and speak.

I haven't been able to stop thinking about this since R5 testing began. My studio keeps Nuendo 6 around literally just for the ADR workflow. I feel all the pieces are there now to make an ADR workflow that matches and exceeds what you can do in Nuendo. I would be over the moon with happiness.
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Old 01-27-2015, 09:56 AM   #157
BenK-msx
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re the adr 'wipes' mentioned.

it can't be too tricky with a macro or script to insert/move the short 'wipe video file' to a marker (so that it ends at the marker) including 'move to next marker' actions etc etc

so it would just be a button press, play/record. on to the next one.
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Old 01-27-2015, 10:00 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
re the adr 'wipes' mentioned.

it can't be too tricky with a macro or script to insert/move the short 'wipe video file' to a marker (so that it ends at the marker) including 'move to next marker' actions etc etc

so it would just be a button press, play/record. on to the next one.
Maybe it could somehow be tied into the Regions Manager?! That would be amazing. Maybe even have a field in there for dialog text on the screen.
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Old 01-27-2015, 10:04 AM   #159
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yeh.

sws s&m extension has many of these capabilities already -

e.g inserting a predefined items into project (the'resources' tool in that extension)

subtitling capabilites are there too using notes and a user has taken this quite far
http://extremraym.com/en/subtitling-sws-2-6-0-scripts/

though that is for creating srt files, not what you are after -

however using the S&m notes window and selecting markers or regions, any text you have in the marker or region appears nice and large, perfect for adr stuff i think.
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Old 01-27-2015, 10:52 AM   #160
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tried it out with adr streamer file i found here:
http://vimeo.com/19732074
timing seems weird but anyway -

in v5 put in a track with the right opacity or chroma video fx in, it overlays on your main video - combine that with s&m notes window for showing marker/region text and then its just a case of streamlining moving the 'streamer' video item to markers.

actions are there to move edit cursor to a marker then can apply all the move to edit cursor actions including move right edge of item to cursor. little fiddly but not really.

world of fun awaits
edit: little pic (i seem to recall reading that is the most used line in films? )
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