Your favorite plugin to add analog / tape-sim / saturation?

[TheFlavor]

I've become interested in adding something on tracks and/or the master for tape-sim, saturation, or other analog-emulation. I've already demoed a lot, but still investigating. What do you recommend?

I've already found some that come with Reaper, and a big list of free ones here:

http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2011...n-vst-plugins/

but I'm hoping to learn from people who use certain ones regularly.

I have it mind to put one of these on my master bus before I even start mixing, so it'd be relatively important to get a good one.

[Banned]

Satin for tape emulation.

[Lord Marceaux de Champs]

A very unique way is to record your mix to cassette tape and then re-record it into Reaper. Now just mix the original rendered mix with tape mix and you ll have a tape sim sound.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Lord Marceaux de Champs

A very unique way is to record your mix to cassette tape and then re-record it into Reaper. Now just mix the original rendered mix with tape mix and you ll have a tape sim sound.

Just a very poor tape sound that no mastering engineer would dare using - hence quite unique, indeed.

[TheFlavor]

Originally Posted by Banned

Satin for tape emulation.

Thanks. I hear aliasing when I load the default Satin preset, max out the "Input" dial, and run a sine sweep through it, running my project at 96,000 kHz. Here's the output. Turn down your speakers before you play this.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Z...ew?usp=sharing

and here's the Reaper-project file I used for the test:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Z...ew?usp=sharing

I'm not enthusiastic about the aliasing. But, with the Input dial at a practical setting, it might become inaudible.

[Wolffman]

I use Toneboosters Ferox & Reelbus, also Bootsie ( variety of sound ) has a free one called FerricTDS (32bit) which is nice as well.

I use Ferox on every track and Reelbus on buses and the Masterbus, seems to work nicely, but subtly is the key, if you start pushing ferox or Reelbus to hard things can get pearshaped fairly quickly.

Then again i think taht would be the same for any tape sim type plugins.


Cheers

[Banned]

Originally Posted by TheFlavor

Thanks. I hear aliasing when I load the default Satin preset, max out the "Input" dial, and run a sine sweep through it, running my project at 96,000 kHz. Here's the output. Turn down your speakers before you play this.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Z...ew?usp=sharing

and here's the Reaper-project file I used for the test:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Z...ew?usp=sharing

I'm not enthusiastic about the aliasing. But, with the Input dial at a practical setting, it might become inaudible.

I can't listen/test your files atm, but iirc, Satin internally uses a 384kHz sample rate, so my guess would be that what you're hearing/seeing are simply the artefacts of tape being emulated rather than a technical problem.

[TheFlavor]

Originally Posted by Banned

I can't listen/test your files atm, but iirc, Satin internally uses a 384kHz sample rate, so my guess would be that what you're hearing/seeing are simply the artefacts of tape being emulated rather than a technical problem.

The manual agrees with you about the internal sample rate:

Internal sample rate: 352-384kHz (depends on project sample rate, 8 x oversampling 44.1kHz)

but I'm certainly getting aliasing. When I run it at 44,100 kHz and send it a 10,000 Hz sine wave, the harmonic at 30,000 gets reflected off the Nyquist-frequency back down to 14,100:



As I move the source sine upwards in frequency, the reflected sine moves downwards, and they cross at 11,025:



No analog machine would respond so differently depending on whether I sent it 10,000 or 11,025.

Keeping the sine at 11,025, if I change the sample rate to 48,000, the response changes:



There couldn't be a clearer case of digital aliasing, but it's possible I'm operating Satin or Reaper wrong somehow.

[beingmf]

I use Nebula R2R and Apex libraries, alongside Reelbus and some JS saturation plugins (nonlinear, saturation etc.). From subtle to LoFi, all the flavours you would ever need and more.

[jpanderson80]

I like Waves MPX and TB's Reelbuss for tape.

Just some simple saturation on individual tracks:
Massey Tapehead - good.
Softube Saturation - gets out of control, but nice at low levels
Klanghelm IVGI - good with nice tweaking abilities

[ashcat_lt]

ReaComp is a super flexible distortion machine. Start with all time constants (pre-comp, attack, release, rms) at 0 and ratio at infinity. Threshold sets the clipping "limit" and Knee controls the curve from very hard to super soft. Then play with the other controls - the sidechain filters can have a real impact on the character of the saturation, and ratios less than max will soften it up even more.

I use my own "diode clipper" JS (under my username in the stash) quite a lot as a sort of mix bus emulation. The controls are a bit weird, but once you sort out how it works it's pretty flexible, and is the easiest way I know to get variably assymetrical clipping.

Not trying to toot my own horn, but my slew rate limiter JS is pretty cool, too. It can knock off the pointies and clicks in a really natural way and make things sound a bit more "analog" without really coloring things too much. At its best, it's really subtle, at extremes it gets really dark and distorted. I don't know of anything else out there for variable slew-rate limiting.

Once you've got a couple decent, flexible, saturation options, then you stick ReaEQ before and/or after, and you can pretty much emulate anything you want.

[TheFlavor]

Originally Posted by squidward

have you compared with / without oversampling ? (is it an option?)
those graphs look like there is no oversampling at all...

I haven't found a way to turn oversampling on or off in Satin.

or there is oversampling, but the saturation is so 'heavy' that 8x doesn't matter (ie...oversampling can only hide so much...)

Yeah. I'll think some more whether this test matters in practice, when the drive isn't maxed out.

--

Will look at the other recommendations today. Thanks everyone.

[beingmf]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

I use my own "diode clipper" JS ...

... my slew rate limiter JS is pretty cool, too.

Would you mind to post some presets? I know they can sound really good, but usually the controls are too fiddly / the range too big for a quick setting.

[grinder]

I use UAD

Grinder

https://soundcloud.com/steve-maitland-1

[musicroom]

I really like IVGI - reading the owners manual to properly set gain is a must. This plug can be set to warm and clear sounding. Although it is a console emulator, it's providing what I'm looking for in a tape emulator. FerricTDS is very good as well. Tone Boosters Reel Bus is also a nice plug at a surprisingly price.

I use all three of these along with tubesoft saturation knob in spots.

[jpanderson80]

Originally Posted by musicroom

I really like IVGI - reading the owners manual to properly set gain is a must. This plug can be set to warm and clear sounding. Although it is a console emulator, it's providing what I'm looking for in a tape emulator.

Yes, I think the same thing. Warm and Clear.
It's a good one for sure.

Here's another:
PSP Vintage Warmer2. It's older, but I find that it can hold it's own against others easily. I find it great for busses.

[Judders]

Sonimus Satson, nebula free with color tape library, ToneBoosters' Reelbus.

If you want to get crazy about things, Airwindows Console (Mac only).

[citizenkeith]

I just started using Sonimus Satson and so far I like it. Been meaning to try Satin.

[Aeolian]

Vintage Warmer 2 ...

It definitely qualifies as a "vintage" plugin, it's that ancient.


The BombFactory guys used to call it "Vintage Farter" on gearslutz, but i still think it has a certain "hardness", that nothing else quite matches to this day ... and it can sound pretty awesome on almost any material, if dialled in judiciously and with care.

[PitchSlap]

Toneboosters Reelbus for tape. Very flexible, arguably as good as anything else, and certainly cheaper.

Decapitator is great for saturation in a mix, as is NI Supercharger GT. I also think the Waves 73 EQ has a very nice input stage saturation (it can get mean).

For subtle saturation Nebula with Henry Olonga's Mojo libraries is hard to beat.

[citizenkeith]

Originally Posted by Aeolian

Vintage Warmer 2 ...

It definitely qualifies as a "vintage" plugin, it's that ancient.

I used that plugin for the mastering of my band's last album, many years ago. Of all the compressor/limiters I auditioned, that one was the one we liked the best. There is indeed something about it that works with certain material.

[georgethedifferent]

After trying a few (not many though) I stick to FerricTDS.

[HobbyCore]

I'm surprised to not see mentions of Grasso or Roundtone. They are very good.

I personally found Satin to sound rather poor when I demoed it. I suppose that the aliasing could have been the cause, but as someone who has a lot of exposure to various tapes and machines, I found it to be very harsh in an unrealistic way.

[PitchSlap]

Originally Posted by georgethedifferent

After trying a few (not many though) I stick to FerricTDS.

Have you tried ReelBus?

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

I'm surprised to not see mentions of Grasso or Roundtone. They are very good.

I personally found Satin to sound rather poor when I demoed it. I suppose that the aliasing could have been the cause, but as someone who has a lot of exposure to various tapes and machines, I found it to be very harsh in an unrealistic way.

I want to like U-He's effects as much as his synths, but I was let down too. The interface is great, but I wasn't keen on the sound.

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by PitchSlap

Have you tried ReelBus?

I know this wasn't in reply to me, but is there a reason why you prefer ReelBus over Ferox?

I haven't tried the Toneboosters stuff much yet, but I constantly hear praise for them.

edit: Answered my own question Here:

One might wonder what the difference is between TB Ferox and its more advanced cousin TB ReelBus:

TB ReelBus is accurately modeled after tape recorders; TB Ferox consists of a more general and simpler tape saturation simulation.

TB ReelBus has tape hiss and asperity noise models, these are not available in TB Ferox.

TB ReelBus has a wide variety of tape models; TB Ferox has saturation and hysteresis controls that can work in 2 modes.

Besides non-linear behavior, TB ReelBus also models certain spectral features of tape, such as the head bump.

TB ReelBus has configurable pre- and post emphasis, not available in TB Ferox.

TB ReelBus has wow and flutter simulation, this is not present in TB Ferox.

[ashcat_lt]

Originally Posted by beingmf

Would you mind to post some presets? I know they can sound really good, but usually the controls are too fiddly / the range too big for a quick setting.

IDK about any presets. I just move the sliders till it sounds good!

With the diode clipper, I think of it like the opamp at the mix bus. With both drops at max, it gives a +/-9V (=18V peak to peak) "rail". I usually set them both really close to max, but not quite the same, and then set the input and output so that 0dbfs is just a little more than 18V. Then I know that if my mix is hitting 0dbfs, it's just barely clipping the mix bus, but it anything that goes into it will come out at least a bit below 0dbfs. Then you can vary how hard you hit it to get more or less crunch.

The slew rate limiter defaults to something along the lines of a typical opamp running unity gain with your converters, and is extremely subtle at realistic settings. I think it usually ends up doing what I want somewhere around double the input and half the slew rate, but you really just kind of play with it. If it does much more than just round of the fastest clicks and ticks, you're probably using too much, not that this is always a bad thing!

[TheFlavor]

I showed U-He the aliasing I got from Satin but have not heard back from them. (ETA: u-he subsequently contacted me to show me the KVR thread where they addressed this.)

I haven't had time to try all the recommendations, but looking forward to it.

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by TheFlavor

I showed U-He the aliasing I got from Satin but have not heard back from them.

I'm liking what I hear from ReelBus, but it doesn't let me turn off the tape-hiss. It lets me turn the hiss down to -60 db, but no lower. I want the harmonic distortion from analog, but really not the hiss.

I haven't had time to try all the recommendations, but looking forward to it.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewto...?f=31&t=431928

[georgethedifferent]

Originally Posted by PitchSlap

Have you tried ReelBus?

No, but I'll be looking around again when I set my new studio up (looks like 3 years of making money before that happens...). Nevertheless I must admit I rarely mix now. I found good and not very expensive guy who does it better and quicker than me. So I'll be focusing on songwriting & tracking only.

My opinion on Ferric though comes from days when I had very good control room in the house and could hear even very subtle differences. It did exactly what I was looking for.

I tried budget-real thing too -- I've got 2 very good cassette decks and could get something interesting from that too. I found it depends much on the track you want to improve. There's no one-fits-all solution...

[Quest The Wordsmith]

Originally Posted by Lord Marceaux de Champs

A very unique way is to record your mix to cassette tape and then re-record it into Reaper. Now just mix the original rendered mix with tape mix and you ll have a tape sim sound.

I've tried this. Problem is, the tape playback is always a bit off, so it never lines up with the original in Reaper. Is there a way to send something to tape, then simultaneously record the output of the tape deck so you get the correct playback speed?

[TheFlavor]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewto...?f=31&t=431928

u-he writes:

Originally Posted by u-he

Hard to judge without at least a screenshot of what settings were chosen on Satin, especially at which input level, and how the circuit headroom was set up.

Satin settings were:

Originally Posted by TheFlavor

... when I load the default Satin preset, max out the "Input" dial... running my project at 96,000 kHz....

... and here's the Reaper-project file I used for the test:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Z...ew?usp=sharing...

Originally Posted by u-he

Minimum aliasing would occur at maximum circuit headroom, since the tape part itself is upsampled 4x, and the circuit part is 2x (using 44k1 or 48k project SR).

A last source of aliasing could be the soft-clip option on the output.

The soft-clip option was off during my tests.

[TheFlavor]

Originally Posted by jpanderson80

Massey Tapehead - good.

do you know if it works in windows? I'm confused by the lack of VST option. VST is all I've ever used before.

http://masseyplugins.com/plugins/tapehead#try

[citizenkeith]

Originally Posted by Quest The Wordsmith

I've tried this. Problem is, the tape playback is always a bit off, so it never lines up with the original in Reaper. Is there a way to send something to tape, then simultaneously record the output of the tape deck so you get the correct playback speed?

I'm not aware of a cassette deck that will monitor off the tape. Most just monitor via the internal electronics.

However, if you got a professional 2-track machine, you can monitor in real time. The caveat: you will be monitoring in Sync mode, which technically is playback from the record head. That won't give you quite as good a reproduction as playing from the playback head (this varies, depending on the model). You'd also have to buy reels of 1/4" tape.

I have a Tascam 22-2 that is ok, but I prefer to listen back from the playback head, unless I want a little less fidelity and a little more hiss.

[ivansc]

The Slate VTM works well for me.

But Tonebooster's reel buss gets another vote from me.

[HobbyCore]

I just gave Reelbus a good try last night and this morning. Not a fan. It sounded really 'farty' and harsh to me.

I'm willing to assume it was due to my own incompetency. Does anyone have an audio example of it being used to good effect (before/after)?

[musicroom]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

I just gave Reelbus a good try last night and this morning. Not a fan. It sounded really 'farty' and harsh to me.

I'm willing to assume it was due to my own incompetency. Does anyone have an audio example of it being used to good effect (before/after)?

Reelbus is not harsh imo unless you want it to sound thin...

I like using plugs like reelbus on a few chosen tracks to add some warmness to the overall mix. I do not use it on the MB. My subjective opinion is that too many instances of warming plugs and/or leaning too heavy on the settings can leave a mix sounding defeated. I set them in a way that I barely tell it's in use when I bypass.

[JHughes]

Originally Posted by citizenkeith

I'm not aware of a cassette deck that will monitor off the tape. Most just monitor via the internal electronics.

However, if you got a professional 2-track machine, you can monitor in real time. The caveat: you will be monitoring in Sync mode, which technically is playback from the record head. That won't give you quite as good a reproduction as playing from the playback head (this varies, depending on the model). You'd also have to buy reels of 1/4" tape.

I have a Tascam 22-2 that is ok, but I prefer to listen back from the playback head, unless I want a little less fidelity and a little more hiss.

There are lots of cassette machines with three heads that monitor off of tape, I used to have 40 Tascam machines that did so, they were used in a duplication facility. Selling them on eBay wasn't worth the money so I scrapped them.

[beingmf]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

I just gave Reelbus a good try last night and this morning. Not a fan. It sounded really 'farty' and harsh to me.

I'm willing to assume it was due to my own incompetency. Does anyone have an audio example of it being used to good effect (before/after)?

I think the parameters are not as self-explaining as usual - some are pretty subtle and dependent on other factors as well.
Of course you can make it fart and sound distorted (ReelBus is one of my favourite sounding distortion units btw!), but generally the different machines sound totally convincing for sweetening.

Maybe your input levels were just far too high?

[barefaced]

Originally Posted by Lord Marceaux de Champs

A very unique way is to record your mix to cassette tape and then re-record it into Reaper. Now just mix the original rendered mix with tape mix and you ll have a tape sim sound.

+1 for that. I record my rock songs to a good hifi tape-deck with a metal cassette. Works great for rock, pop or lofi country style. For electronic dance music I don't like tape sound at all (not real tape nor tape sim). With my 3 head tape-deck I can re-record the tape sound instantly back to reaper (only a few milliseconds latence)

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by beingmf

I think the parameters are not as self-explaining as usual - some are pretty subtle and dependent on other factors as well.
Of course you can make it fart and sound distorted (ReelBus is one of my favourite sounding distortion units btw!), but generally the different machines sound totally convincing for sweetening.

Maybe your input levels were just far too high?

Input levels were fairly modest. Peaking around -10dbFS.

Perhaps it would be better said that I felt 75% of the values available via the UI sounded bad. I was able to get some decent sounds at very modest values, but even those didn't seem that fantastic to me.