Old 01-17-2013, 01:17 PM   #361
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1. You have a great plant, it silently fixed the two minor flaws in Reaper's CD text formatting
Yes , this one was pressed in one of the two great plants I know near my location.
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2. You might want to start setting the CD text language yourself, some plants have been complained about the language not being set.
I'll do it!
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3. (Most important) The CD text on the pressed disc looks fine.
I never had complaints since I started rendering my ddp's with reaper. However I think I 've been using only the basic letters of the alphabet (no "éèàâ'`ç " as used in french writing...), because Sergej did advice us about the limited support with cd text.

As a user, I sincerely thank both of you for your efforts in making ddp export reliable in reaper.
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:32 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by WyattRice View Post
Here's the changlog from 4.25
+ DDP support: improvements (MD5, CD-TEXT support, UTF-8/ascii conversion)
Just to be 100% sure: that md5 file generated by reaper while doing the DDP export is here to test that there is no corruption after sending the files to the pressing plant, right?
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:03 PM   #363
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Just to be 100% sure: that md5 file generated by reaper while doing the DDP export is here to test that there is no corruption after sending the files to the pressing plant, right?
Yes.

That was the short answer, and here come the long one:

MD5 is an algorithm to claculate a message digest (16 bytes in the case of MD5), which has a great characteristic: although the digest is much much shorter than most files, it is very unlikely that two different files will produce the same digest. And this is how you make use of MD5: right, when you are sure your master (or any other file) has exactly the content you want, calculate hashes for each file and keep them. Now whatever you do with the riginal files, like copying them on a different media, sending them over a network, storing them on tape, you can at any time make sure the content of the files is identical to the original without having to sore a complete copy of the files at a separate location.

Aside from having the plant check for network transfer corruption, imagine the following use case: you're a freelance engineer working for a large studio, you work a week on mixing some tracks, eventually you and the musicians are happy and approve the final bounce. Now you label those wave files according to some type of naming convention, and the local backup server will make copies together with all the other files of that project which might very well include earliere versions of the mixes. Now imagine it takes a year until the final master is to be put together, and for whatever reason there is some confusion about which files are the approved ones (sure ideally this should not happen...). Now, if you have made MD5 hashes of the bounces right after you approved them and stored them on your personal USB stick, you could now - even while working on a gig on the Fiji islands, send the hashes via E-Mail to the studio, so they can identify the correct files whithout having to rely on names, time stamps, and the like. They can simply make sure the mastering engineer get's to hear exactly what you and the musicians did hear, when you approved the mix.

With regard to DDP, note that MD5s are usually calculated per file, so if you let's say open a DDP in some software and modify some CD text and then save them again, a quick look at the MD5s will tell you immediately if the audio has changed. I usually generate my DDPs from another CD image file (cue/wav or hdp/wav), which I have approved already. With using MD5 hashes, I don't have to listen to the final DDP. I just claculate the MD5 straight from the DVD-R and check that the audio si identical to what I listened to.

Last edited by anrug; 02-21-2013 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:08 AM   #364
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Thanks a lot for your answer and for your tips! All this sounds quite exciting!

I still have a question though, regarding this:

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note that MD5s are usually calculated per file
Is the md5 file generated by Reaper calculated for all the files, or just the audio? I did a quick test, trying to alter all files one by one, and that made the checksum test performed by DDP Player fail each time.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:28 AM   #365
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Is the md5 file generated by Reaper calculated for all the files, or just the audio? I did a quick test, trying to alter all files one by one, and that made the checksum test performed by DDP Player fail each time.
The checksum file is a simple text file (you can open it in Notepad), each line has a checksum and a filename. The file format is the one used by a well known UNIX program, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Md5sum for more details). An MD5 checker will read all lines one by one, and compare the MD5 against the result of calcualting an MD5 from the referneced file. I guess DDP Player does not give you detailed feadback on which file failed the integrity test, just prints out a summary. There are many free MD5 checkers, that will most likely give you the detailed output you're looking for. You can also use my ddpinfo tool for this, if you don't mind the command line.

To you first question: a DDP created by Reaper has usually 5 files.

* DDPID and DDMS is some general information about the master
* PQDESCR has all the information that you into the PQ subcode stream of the CD, that is: track start, pause and index marker, UPC/EAN, ISRC, track flags
* CDTEXT.BIN has all the CD text information (which goes into the R-W substreams of the lead-in area, i.e. the section on the CD before any audio is written)
* YOURNAME.DAT has all the audio, in raw format, just like a Wave file but without any header information

If the audio changes only the last file should be affected, and that file will only change, when the audio changes.

Last edited by anrug; 02-22-2013 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:45 AM   #366
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Anrug, I realize that I forgot to thank you for your last message! Many late thanks, your detailed answers are awesome!

I'm back with a problem. For some reason, Sonoris DDP Player seems to fail at checking the MD5 files of most of my DDPs generated by Reaper. It worked flawlessly once, and all the other ones return me this error:



Anyone has an idea?
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:21 PM   #367
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Anrug, I realize that I forgot to thank you for your last message! Many late thanks, your detailed answers are awesome!
Thank you very much. I'm really delighted to hear that!

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I'm back with a problem. For some reason, Sonoris DDP Player seems to fail at checking the MD5 files of most of my DDPs generated by Reaper. It worked flawlessly once, and all the other ones return me this error:



Anyone has an idea?
Well, that error message is missing the actual file name, so obviously Sonoris is trying to do something, I'd suspect. Two suggestion to get this solved:

1. Can you post the md5 file, so I can see, that it has the correct format first of all? (Ideally as zipped attachement, so all bytes of that file are preserved verbatim.)

2. If you are familiar with the command promt, you can use "ddpinfo" from my DDP tools to verify the checksums. That program normally produces good error messages and read quite a variety of checksum formats, I've seen in different flavors of DDP. Alternatively you could try programs like "ExactFile" to see what output they generate.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:14 PM   #368
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Well, that error message is missing the actual file name, so obviously Sonoris is trying to do something, I'd suspect. Two suggestion to get this solved:

1. Can you post the md5 file, so I can see, that it has the correct format first of all? (Ideally as zipped attachement, so all bytes of that file are preserved verbatim.)

2. If you are familiar with the command promt, you can use "ddpinfo" from my DDP tools to verify the checksums. That program normally produces good error messages and read quite a variety of checksum formats, I've seen in different flavors of DDP. Alternatively you could try programs like "ExactFile" to see what output they generate.
Ah yes, I was wondering why there was a double space in the error message, you replied to the question.

I attached one md5 file as a zip to this post. I tried checking it in 30 seconds with ExactFile, but I didn't really know to do with the report. I'm a bit in a rush right now, so I can't do further investigation atm. Will do in one hour or so. I'll start by trying to understand why the filename is buggy. Maybe there is something to look there.

Thanks!
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:48 PM   #369
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I still need to investigate that, but it seems that if the Reaper render window "file name" value is inferior to 14 characters, Sonoris DDP Player won't be able to make a checksum test. I don't know if that makes sense, but I could reproduce it. Any ideas?
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:13 AM   #370
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I still need to investigate that, but it seems that if the Reaper render window "file name" value is inferior to 14 characters, Sonoris DDP Player won't be able to make a checksum test. I don't know if that makes sense, but I could reproduce it. Any ideas?
Just a few:

1. The filename of the DDP data file must not be longer than 17 characters (including the file extension), and ist must only contain ASCII characters. That's a hard limit, if you choose a longer file name, it's simply not a DDP any more! Also although you or the software is free to choose a data file name, most DDP creating software uses the convention of naming it "IMAGE.DAT", I'd always stick to that, there really is no reason, Reaper should even give you a choice here.

2. The file you attached me has Linux/Unix type line breaks. Although that's a bit unusual on Windows I'd guess that that's not the problem.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:08 AM   #371
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Most probably, point 2) should not be the problem. But Look at this, there is obviously something weird. I did two exports: one with "IMAGE.DAT" as a name, and the other one exceeding the 17 characters (including the file extension) limit. The expected name fails the test:



The long name passes the test:



Is there some bug on Reaper side? Or on DDP Player's one? Or did I do something wrong? Checking the project with DDP Player says that no problems are found in both cases.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:16 AM   #372
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Is there some bug on Reaper side? Or on DDP Player's one? Or did I do something wrong? Checking the project with DDP Player says that no problems are found in both cases.
That's indeed the question. So, I'dreally suggest to use "ddpinfo -y" to validate the checksum using a different method than DDP Player, just to see if that raises a similar error. Or use ExcatFile and see what it says.

As long as Sonoris plays the DDP file, there can't be something wrong with the data file's name. So I'd guess, we have to look into the MD5 validation.
Can you post the DDPMS and MD5 files of the two examples, you've just been comparing?
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:54 PM   #373
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Can you post the DDPMS and MD5 files of the two examples, you've just been comparing?
Posted. I actually included all the files, except the .dat ones. They are arranged in two folders within the zip and respect the screenshots displayed right above.

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So, I'dreally suggest to use "ddpinfo -y" to validate the checksum using a different method than DDP Player, just to see if that raises a similar error. Or use ExcatFile and see what it says.
I must confess I don't know what you mean with "ddpinfo -y". I quickly checked ExactFile. I have no idea what to do with its output. There are some days that one when you feel a bit dumb :/
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:55 PM   #374
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Here are the files, it seems I forgot to upload them
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:41 PM   #375
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I must confess I don't know what you mean with "ddpinfo -y". I quickly checked ExactFile. I have no idea what to do with its output. There are some days that one when you feel a bit dumb :/
Hi Miche,
If your using Windows, you can check the md5 checksums with the gui frontend I posted here. My gui uses Anrug's ddpinfo -y when you click the verify button. Hope this makes it easier.
Regards, Wyatt
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:40 AM   #376
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Hi Miche,
If your using Windows, you can check the md5 checksums with the gui frontend I posted here. My gui uses Anrug's ddpinfo -y when you click the verify button. Hope this makes it easier.
Regards, Wyatt
Once again, thanks Wyatt! It is awesome you did a portable version of your software!

I have just tested my files using your software, and any DDP version I render with Reaper passes the checksum tests. I therefore suspect it may be an issue on Sonoris side. I will write them right now.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:07 AM   #377
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I have just tested my files using your software, and any DDP version I render with Reaper passes the checksum tests. I therefore suspect it may be an issue on Sonoris side. I will write them right now.
I have no time at the moment to have a closer look, but the the only difference I can find between the two md5 files is that the one with the shorter data file name, has that very file name written down with trainling spaces. So, it's a possibility that Sonoris might not strip trailing spaces from file names in a MD5 files.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:08 AM   #378
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I got an explanation from the quick Sonoris team (big thanks to them)! Look at this:



Reaper generates some spaces after the .DAT name if it is not longer than 17 characters, file extension included. The current version of DDP Player does not understand those spaces and generates a weird bug.

I have just opened a thread about this in the bug section of the forum:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=119510
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:09 AM   #379
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the only difference I can find between the two md5 files is that the one with the shorter data file name, has that very file name written down with trainling spaces. So, it's a possibility that Sonoris might not strip trailing spaces from file names in a MD5 files.
Ah, one minute faster than me! Bingo
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:20 AM   #380
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Ah, one minute faster than me! Bingo
And just for the record: md5sum (on Linux) also takes the trailing spaces seriously. So I'd say it's not a Sonoris problem (only the error message could be more helpful). And I maybe will consider changing ddpinfo's behaviour to support filenames with trailing spaces.

God job miche!
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:59 PM   #381
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Andreas,
Could you check this post when you get a chance?
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=344

I'll also posted in the latest pre-release section

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...82#post1148182

Thanks, Wyatt
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:53 PM   #382
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The sector error that ddpinfo was showing has been fixed in the latest release of Reaper. Thank you Devs!
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:27 AM   #383
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Hello fellow DDP'ers.

Here's something I've been meaning to post for awhile.
Me and my son Jared, started a little project last year.
I wanted to learn some programming, and he got me started.

We done this in Visual Basic.
It's basically a GUI for some great command line utilities that includes ddpinfo written by Andreas Ruge, and cdrecord which is part of cdrtools written by Jörg Schilling.

I really wanted to directly write a DDP image to CD. With ddpinfo, it was possible. This is just a test version (any critique is welcome), and is for Windows only.
Note: Windows XP users dot net 2.0 is required.
I'm currently working on a Mac version using wxpython, but it will take me awhile.
So here it is.
DDP To Cue Writer



Directions:
Kinda crude at the moment.

1. Select your CD Writer you'll be using to write the CD

2. Verify DDP checksums. Search for MD5 and CRC32 checksum files in the DDP directory and
use the checksums found to verify the integrity of the DDP file-set

3. Make sure you have inserted blank CD for the selected writer

4. Write the DDP To CD

Other Stuff:

You can also convert the DDP file-set to a cue/wav format
open the cue, and write from that, or you can also write
previous cue/wav, or cue/bins rendered from Reaper.

New for DDP To Cue Writer 1.0pre13
+ ddpinfo added support for writing a PQ Sheet
It can be accessed from the menu "PQ Sheet", and optionally be opened in your default web browser.

Also fixed an XP compatibility issue.
Fixed error if user selected wrong path to DDP Files.

I'm open for any kind of critique, or recommendations

More coming soon!


Installer version
DDP To Cue Writer 1.0pre13.exe

Portable version
DDP To Cue Writer 1.0pre13.zip

Special thanks to Andreas Ruge, and my son Jared.
Also thanks to Kawabatnam and miche for testing.
Hope you enjoy!
Wyatt
Just wanted to say this is awesome, thanks Wyatt and co. Glad you finally got a good solution.

Using Reaper to make a DDP, this to convert to wav/cue and EAC (the only burner i'm aware of with a write offset option) to burn it gets me a cd exactly as i lay it out. Nice.
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:33 AM   #384
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I guess I know the answer, but let's try anyway

Code:
- minimum track length (distance of the next track's INDEX0/INDEX1
to the previous INDEX1) is set to 4 seconds, please consider this,
otherwise the INDEX0 and 1 are automatically moved in the next track's audio.
This is what you can see in the DDP instructions. I would like to make a song that's a bit longer than 1 second (and therefore, shorter than the minimum 4 seconds). There is no way I can do that in Reaper?

Thanks!
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:48 AM   #385
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Hi all,
It's been a while since I checked this forum page, so reading all this posts makes me really happy anyway! Many thanks for all the efforts! I'll install the cue2ddp writer within some minutes! The good news is that i did some ddp masters with Reaper and also one with Andreas' fantastic command line tools, because my client wanted an index 02 at the end of the cd… The pressing plant didn't complain at all! I also had problems with the sonoris software reading the Reaper DDP's, so I stopped using it, also because it didn't work with my screenreader anymore, but I think I already said that, some time ago… Many thanks again, You're doing a great job and really help me out with some accessible DDP creation! Btw, I used Imgburn for a while, to burn reference masters, but you seem to get a lot of unwanted spyware with it, these days… Great to see an alternative 'round here! A native sub index marker within Reaper, hasn't disappeared from my wishlist yet...
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:46 AM   #386
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Great program! Just tested the ddp2cue writer. The PQ-sheet is great! Works much better than making a pdf from a cue sheet. I didn't manage to write a ddp to disc. Or do I have to convert it to cue/wav first? Anything I'm doing wrong? Thanks!
Rene
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:20 PM   #387
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Great program! Just tested the ddp2cue writer. The PQ-sheet is great! Works much better than making a pdf from a cue sheet. I didn't manage to write a ddp to disc. Or do I have to convert it to cue/wav first? Anything I'm doing wrong? Thanks!
Rene
Thanks for the comments. What happens exactly? By default, I have DDP To Cue Writer set to do a simulated write. See if it will write if you uncheck "Simulate Write"

Is there any error messages?

Thanks, Wyatt
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:20 AM   #388
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I don't get an error message, but I get a "burning complete" message, before the actual burning process starts. Tried to change the grace time, but that only delayed the message. This happends on both my internal cd writer and also on an external one. They are both Samsung. Any idea?
Thanks!
Rene
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:36 AM   #389
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I don't get an error message, but I get a "burning complete" message, before the actual burning process starts. Tried to change the grace time, but that only delayed the message. This happends on both my internal cd writer and also on an external one. They are both Samsung. Any idea?
Thanks!
Rene
Thanks for testing this Rene. I'm not sure what's happening, but I'll see if I can figure it out.
Here's another version that I've been working on. See if this one works. It's a portable version, so just extract the zip file, and run DDP To Cue Writer.exe in the extracted folder.
Link removed. Working on new version with some updates, fixes, etc.

Thanks, Wyatt
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:06 AM   #390
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Thanks Wyatt! Just tried it and still get the same result, while burning direct from a DDP. When I tried to burn a cuesheet, nothing happened, except for the cd, which got stuk in the cd-writer! Anyway, I'd be happy to help you with further testing!
Rene
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:44 AM   #391
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Hi kaaijmusic,
try to remove (or not to use) CDTEXT. At least for the test.
I have had some problems too some time ago, also in ImgBurn...

No CD-TEXT files generated by Reaper DDP plugin, Sonoris DDP Player/Creator, standalone CD-TEXT editors gave me matching files, every does it little bit differently :-/
I have had 3 CD-TEXT files as .cdt for .bin/.cue image of CD and burned using ImgBurn, some of them made burning software stuck on writing Lead-in indefinitely (restart needed), some of them burned easily.


BTW (Sergenious will you read too, please ;-)
There is "bug" or incompatibility in PQ generated by Reaper DDP, where ISRC code is stored twice for the first track. At rirst for index 00 and then second for index 01, but Red-Book allows ISRC to be ONLY at first (any 0 or 1) index in track (that is idx 00 for CDstart). It is not possible to workaround this although, because you HAVE TO create first INDEX 0 for start of CD-1st track, but cannot edit ISRC for index0 type of marker, so you must put it on seconf index which is INDEX 1 and then software assign it to both IDX1 and IDX0 too :-(

Sonoris DDP Creator/Player will inform you about that error in DDP image when such DDPimage is loaded and then tried to burn/export or print PQsheet

akademie

P.S.: !!! On another hand we finished our CD and sent for replication to plant and everything went great (including CD-TEXT, but it really took me very much time to understand some underlaying problematic and lotsa tweaking/checking in other software to be sure whats happening, also I manually hex-edited PQ files etc. but nothing fancy, so VERY MUCH THANKS for DDP export Sergenious and Reaper-devs). I also asked plant to insert ISRC codes into CDtext (which btw is not possible at the moment in Reaper DDP) - just to be sure, that they will regenerated CD-TEXT using their own software and not use that one supplied by me directly ;-)
Also THANKs to WyattRice for his great usefull application (but .NET needed grrr >
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:58 AM   #392
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Thanks Wyatt! Just tried it and still get the same result, while burning direct from a DDP. When I tried to burn a cuesheet, nothing happened, except for the cd, which got stuk in the cd-writer! Anyway, I'd be happy to help you with further testing!
Rene
Thanks for helping. I sent you an email.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:07 PM   #393
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Thanks for the advice! You're right, when you insert a Reaper ddp in the Sonoris ddp-creator, you'll get ISRC's in Index 00 and Index 01, a bit strange indeed, but it seems ok, when I create a cuesheet from the ddp. I don't have problems with the cdtext.bin files in the Reaper ddp-image, as far as I know. When you create a cuesheet, you will get a CDT file, when I convert a ddp with cdtext to a wav/cue.
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Old 10-09-2013, 04:27 PM   #394
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Also THANKs to WyattRice for his great usefull application (but .NET needed grrr >
Sorry about the .Net I had started a python version that won't require any .net libraries, and won't even require python to run, as it will have the required library files built into the application itself. I want to finish this, but only have a limited amount of time to do so, but when it's done it should work on Windows and Mac without having to download anything except for the app itself. Maybe this winter, I'll have time to complete it.

I'll post it when its ready for testing.

Many Thanks, Wyatt
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:37 PM   #395
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Does anyone know where I can find detailed information on ddp, pq codes and red book specifications. All my google searches just turn up fragments of information here and there, so it's kind of like piecing together a puzzle. Even Bob Katz's book doesn't seem to get too deep into the why of it all (though it has some good tips for pq flag placement).

The reaper tutorial video posted here> http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=111013 >gives a good starting point on how to set things up in reaper, but it's kind of 'just do this and don't worry about the technical side' (sorry, not a slag against the video or it's author, it was really helpful). One specific question about the video I was wondering about though, maybe someone here knows, why does the author of the video set his tempo to 240bpm? Am I missing a really basic math thing on that?

At any rate, any info on where to look for more detailed info on the standards involved would be much appreciated (links, books, anything).
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:26 AM   #396
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One specific question about the video I was wondering about though, maybe someone here knows, why does the author of the video set his tempo to 240bpm? Am I missing a really basic math thing on that?
Found my answer... has to do with grid resolution. If you set your grid to 1/75 and the projects tempo is 120bpm then the snap to grid will only snap to every other frame in the 1/75 grid. When you set the bpm to 240 it doubles the gird resolution, allowing you to snap on every line segment within the 75fps ruler/grid. You could just as easily set you grid up to be double the frame rate instead of double the tempo (ie. 120bpm with a 1/150 grid... which will default to 1/100T dotted note).

I guess the 'why' is because the grid line spacing is only able to be set to note lengths and not actual timecode spacing/intervals.
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:43 PM   #397
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Found my answer... has to do with grid resolution. If you set your grid to 1/75 and the projects tempo is 120bpm then the snap to grid will only snap to every other frame in the 1/75 grid. When you set the bpm to 240 it doubles the gird resolution, allowing you to snap on every line segment within the 75fps ruler/grid. You could just as easily set you grid up to be double the frame rate instead of double the tempo (ie. 120bpm with a 1/150 grid... which will default to 1/100T dotted note).

I guess the 'why' is because the grid line spacing is only able to be set to note lengths and not actual timecode spacing/intervals.
Hi ned,
Recently, Reaper's new version 4.5 has a frame grid. In the project settings, you can change project framerate to 75, then in the snap grid settings "show grid line spacing" set that to frames, and ruler to hours.min.sec.frames

The old 240 bpm trick was a work around thing to get a cd frame grid. It's no longer needed in version 4.5
Hope this helps.
Regards, Wyatt
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:11 PM   #398
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Cool. I did not know that. I've been kind of reluctant to move from v4.4x just because I see a lot of people reporting bugs since the v4.5 series started. Maybe I'll have to leave my paranoia behind and check out 4.55. Thanks for the heads up Wyatt.
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:45 AM   #399
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Don't know if this is general knowledge, but it appears that the ddp export in reaper is automatically applying dither to tracks that are higher than 16 bit; ie. as in when you apply processing to a 16 bit file before ddp export and then forget to apply a dither plugin. A load back test of the dat file showed only dither when polarity flipped against the original.

Also, didn't realize reaper can now directly import the actual dat file. I'm still using reaper 4.4x, so not sure at what version this was implemented. Just an FYI for those still exporting a wave from the ddpinfo command line application.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:13 PM   #400
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Discmakers wants a DDP 2.0 file, is this what REAPER puts out?
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