Old 09-26-2016, 07:11 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by snooks View Post
Apparently you need to sync them with a lead before they show up as one device...

http://www.rme-audio.de/download/bface_e.pdf

(page 25)
Yeah, seems pessimistic:

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Originally Posted by manual
Note: TotalMix is part of the hardware of each Babyface. Up to three mixers are available, but these are separated and can't interchange data. Therefore a global mixer for all units is not possible.

In real-world an operation of more than one Babyface makes no sense and is therefore not actively supported by RME. The second unit would have to be synchronized using the optical input. The result is an extension by only 2 analog record and 4 analog playback channels (plus 8 digital via ADAT Out). It makes much more sense to directly connect an 8-channel converter to the ADAT I/O of one Babyface, adding full 8 channels of record and playback.
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:20 AM   #42
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Apparently you need to sync them with a lead before they show up as one device...

http://www.rme-audio.de/download/bface_e.pdf

(page 25)
Making an aggregate device is the thing that makes them show up as one device. The aggregate device is the "one device" you are now selecting.

Connecting the clock output (with either word clock or via a digital audio connection) from the "master" unit to the clock input of the "slave" unit is what makes them run together in sync so you don't get clicks/pops from the clocks drifting apart and mismatching. This part is SOP for connecting ANY digital audio devices together and it's a hard requirement. (The hardware sync requirement is not something you can bypass with software choices.)
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:58 AM   #43
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I tried to find a pure ADAT<->USB converter for a decent price but failed.

Seemingly there is no interest in providing such a thing (any more).

-Michael
Michael - I dont think there ever HAS been any interest in making an ADAT to USB converter without the additional functions you get from a full blown interface. Logically, you couldn't charge that much for it compared to selling the whole ADAT to computer audio package as well.
And that is what 99% of folks "out there" actually need.
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:59 AM   #44
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I dunno who that Spaniard, Manual, is... but he has the right of it.


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Old 09-26-2016, 12:26 PM   #45
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Babyface owner's manual: The second unit would have to be synchronized using the optical input. The result is an extension by only 2 analog record and 4 analog playback channels (plus 8 digital via ADAT Out).
This is exactly what simpsongb was asking for: having the two analog ins of one Babyface combined with the two of another one. It works - no problem.

Did you get it to work, simpsongb?
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Old 09-26-2016, 01:09 PM   #46
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Michael - I dont think there ever HAS been any interest in making an ADAT to USB converter without the additional functions you get from a full blown interface. Logically, you couldn't charge that much for it compared to selling the whole ADAT to computer audio package as well.
And that is what 99% of folks "out there" actually need.
There is one. It's around 120 €, VAT included:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/usb...sbstreamer-box
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Old 09-26-2016, 02:10 PM   #47
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Interesting. Wonder how good the ASIO drivers are?
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Old 09-26-2016, 04:00 PM   #48
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Making an aggregate device is the thing that makes them show up as one device. The aggregate device is the "one device" you are now selecting.
In OSX, we are not talking about OSX.
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Connecting the clock output (with either word clock or via a digital audio connection) from the "master" unit to the clock input of the "slave" unit is what makes them run together in sync so you don't get clicks/pops from the clocks drifting apart and mismatching. This part is SOP for connecting ANY digital audio devices together and it's a hard requirement. (The hardware sync requirement is not something you can bypass with software choices.)
You can bypass hardware sync via resampling in software. It's not ideal though and doesn't apply to this situation anyway.
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Old 09-26-2016, 10:20 PM   #49
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There is one. It's around 120 €, VAT included
This is not that much lower than a AD/DA box that offers ADAT additionally.

System-thinking would suggest to use ADAT as a bus that at one end is connected to a PC and the other ends connected to audio equiplent. But this does not seem to be very popular.

I dumped the two 8 channel ADAT boxes I used and now use an XR18: more value for the price.

-Michael
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Old 09-27-2016, 04:06 AM   #50
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This is not that much lower than a AD/DA box that offers ADAT additionally.
I agree with you, Michael. But if you need to buy new, the interfaces with ADAT are getting a lot more expensive, as on the base models, there's no more ADAT, these days.

Quote:
System-thinking would suggest to use ADAT as a bus that at one end is connected to a PC and the other ends connected to audio equiplent. But this does not seem to be very popular.

I dumped the two 8 channel ADAT boxes I used and now use an XR18: more value for the price.

-Michael
ADAT is old. And since manufacturers still need to pay Alesis for a license...

Behringer recently side-stepped Alesis because the delay on delivering chips for several Behringer products lead them to produce their own ADAT chips.

And then there is ethernet AVB moving up, slowly. An STP cable is much cheaper and easier to work with than a multi-cable.

The one thing that keeps me liking ADAT, is the fact that it is optical. No problem with electrical interference over shield and no problem for long cable runs, even if you have to put in opto-amplifiers.

A product I only recently discovered allows to send ADAT over ethernet:

http://www.appsys.ch/en/products/pro...slink-extender

Reasonably affordable...

The ADX-64B-PRO allows for 64 channels over STP, up to 100 m. 350 €, excl. VAT.
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Old 09-27-2016, 05:04 AM   #51
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And then there is ethernet AVB moving up, slowly. An STP cable is much cheaper and easier to work with than a multi-cable.

The one thing that keeps me liking ADAT, is the fact that it is optical. No problem with electrical interference over shield and no problem for long cable runs, even if you have to put in opto-amplifiers.

A product I only recently discovered allows to send ADAT over ethernet:

http://www.appsys.ch/en/products/pro...slink-extender

Reasonably affordable...

The ADX-64B-PRO allows for 64 channels over STP, up to 100 m. 350 €, excl. VAT.
I've been using these extenders for 5 years now. Great system. However, it's worth mentioning that it is only using network cables as physical connectors. The audio is transmitted as conventional point-to-point ADAT, thus NOT networkable (same as AES50 which Behringer is using). The only advantage it offers is that you can run far longer cables than with ADAT.

If you are looking for real layer 3 IP network audio over ethernet you need something like Dante or Ravenna which is much more flexible than AES50.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:58 AM   #52
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SonicAxiom: I suspect you are pointing me in the direction of my next protocol, assuming I dont die before my current RME/ADAT box dies.

With my health issues and age, it is likely to be a close-run thing!
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:09 AM   #53
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SonicAxiom: I suspect you are pointing me in the direction of my next protocol, assuming I dont die before my current RME/ADAT box dies.

With my health issues and age, it is likely to be a close-run thing!
I wish you all the best and especially good health!!

I assume Dante will outlive us all
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:51 AM   #54
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IIf you are looking for real layer 3 IP network audio over ethernet you need something like Dante or Ravenna which is much more flexible than AES50.
I'm not. That's why i wrote "STP cable", not TCP/IP.

Besides, Dante isn't real TCP/IP either, until they scrap the proprietary part.

But it's interesting to know you've been using those for a long time, as I've proposed these boxes as an intermediate solution for someone who uses dozens of ADAT interfaces. Replacing those would be costly. And none of the current solutions are inter-operable or future-proof.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:48 AM   #55
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Replacing those would be costly. And none of the current solutions are inter-operable or future-proof.
A variety of bridging devices is out there as we speak to get your existing ADAT devices into a Dante network - no need to replace anything:

- appsys multiverter (converts between 64x ADAT, 64x MADI, 64x AES50 and 64x Dante)
- Yamaha 01v96 (as long as you fit it with a MY16-Dante card)
- Focusrite Red 4pre

to name a few.

Dante and Ravenna have evolved into de-facto standards for years for big events like ESC or other concerts or the olympics and are also standard in recent av infrastructure of stadiums and universities where a lot of sources have to be interconnected over great distances.

Besides that, CLA and I have it, so ...
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:03 PM   #56
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Thanks for the suggestions. I already found most of these. They're expensive, compared to the ADAT extender boxes from AppSys.

And it's a decentralised setup, which is next to impossible with Dante. Meaning they might use 2 ADAT's in one room, 1 in another room and 3 in yet another. These go to 3 control rooms in a daily changing configoration. Dante doesn't offer that kind of flexibility. Or only at a very high price.

As I see it now, one ADAT converter box per room would suffice. And that's within budget. It's education, so a bigger budget is out of the question anyhow.

And you know education. No budget, but there's around 93 piano's around.
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Old 09-27-2016, 01:16 PM   #57
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Sonic

Thanks for the detail on setup. Agreed that TotalMix is certainly not intuitive. I am not certain I even have it setup correctly. I have the "slave" RME as (2), which makes your list kind of backwards. Problem I am having is this: when I turn off the phantom power on the vocal mic on (2), the two guitar mics lose power or go dead at the same time....but maybe that is a byproduct of the sync?????
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Old 09-27-2016, 01:44 PM   #58
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I am posting only in regard to TotalMix.
I have found it challenging.
here's what helps me enormously.
open 2 TotalMix windows.
1 for each of the Views. Mixer and Grid.
when you make a change on either View window, the other will change too.
now, go to the Grid window. click on connections. make them, and break them.
watch what happens on the Mixer window.
make noise. watch on the Mixer window, when and where you have signal, and when you don't.
also, on the Mixer window, when you adjust faders, they obviously change in the Mixer window.
but, watch the Grid window too. the fader values will change as you slide the faders in the Mixer window.
this honestly makes it do-able for me.
otherwise, I'm just lost.
not at my Babyface at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that a fader value of -infinity on the Mixer, means no connection, and thus a blank space for that connection on the Grid window. (but as you slide the fader up on the Mixer, that space on the Grid, will now reflect the Fader value.)
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Old 09-28-2016, 06:12 AM   #59
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Sonic

Thanks for the detail on setup. Agreed that TotalMix is certainly not intuitive. I am not certain I even have it setup correctly. I have the "slave" RME as (2), which makes your list kind of backwards. Problem I am having is this: when I turn off the phantom power on the vocal mic on (2), the two guitar mics lose power or go dead at the same time....but maybe that is a byproduct of the sync?????
So two guitar mics are going into Babyface (1) (analog in 1/2) and a vocal mic goes into Babyface (2) (analog in 1) and all three mic are phantom powered? Routing doesn't affect phantom power so if you are loosing a signal it must be a routing issue while phantom power is still getting to the mics.

Here's what I would try with Babyface (2) being the chosen audio device in Reaper but Babyface (1) being the clock master for the whole setup:

Babyface (1):



Babyface (2):



TotalMix matrix of Babyface (1):



TotalMix matrix of Babyface (2):



Babyface's (2) analog inputs should appear on inputs AS 1/2 in Reaper (AS 1/2 = ADAT 1/2) while Babyface's (1) analog inputs should appear on ADAT ins 3/4.
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Old 10-01-2016, 11:38 AM   #60
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yup. All good now. The routing is a bit confusing though. Thanks for all the help everyone, esp Sonic
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Old 10-02-2016, 06:14 AM   #61
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glad to hear that it's working
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