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02-20-2011, 12:47 AM
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#41
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 632
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I wasn't clear if folders were forthcoming, but I timed how long it takes to scroll through a bunch of custom scales... 36 seconds is a long scroll to make very often. Folders would be a blessing here
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02-20-2011, 01:06 AM
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#42
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 632
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Also a Q for the dev's
If just use 0 and 1 instead of 1003 etc? There would be too many scale to include all of the mode rotations. Is there something in development that is going to require those numbers to accurately reflect the scale degree? If not 0 and 1 seem to be working fine.
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02-20-2011, 03:52 AM
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#43
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian
... what about this:
1 "Maj13" 100030000007_0020040000600
The "_" tells the midi editor to spread the snap over two octaves instead of one (or 3 or 4 octaves, whatever) ..... and the second octave is as easy to define as the 1st.
Those extensions will become all too easy
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Yes, that's the kind of thing I mean. In the ME we would then somehow need to define in which octave the pattern starts (e.g. whether it begins in the octave starting C3 or C4 etc.). I like your idea to use an underscore to separate between octaves but I still think the use of letters in the second octave helps to more clearly distinguish between them; perhaps like this:
1 "Maj 13" 100030000007_00A000000E00
(where A=9th, B=10th, C=11th, D=12th, E=13th, F=14th, G=15th)
Then, of course, both root and starting (lower) octave would need to be defined separately in the ME.
(slightly semantic OT - omitted the 11th as I wouldn't normally include it a Maj 13 voicing)
Also, at this point, some sort of GUI for inputting this stuff starts to become more appealing than a text file!
Last edited by Xasman; 02-20-2011 at 04:14 AM.
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02-20-2011, 04:16 AM
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#44
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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I like that idea to spread out chords/scales across multiple octaves a lot. It would be good if it didn't stop at two octaves, as three octaves would make guitar shape chords possible, which I'd love to add to the arsenal.
For example a dominant 7 in guitar E shape could look like this following the previously proposed syntax (EDIT: oh, not really. I didn't see the letter proposal in time - I'm sure that would severely throw me off editing new chords, being not all that trained in harmony, but I'd cope with it. /edit):
1 "E-shape dom7" C3_100000050070_000030000070_100000000000
Other chord shapes would of course make a bit more use of the third octave than just the root...
Would love to check that out . One could also lay out chords for open tunings and stuff - worlds open up for the guitar fakers.
Not sure how well all this would play with the transpose feature, though.
Last edited by gofer; 02-20-2011 at 04:29 AM.
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02-20-2011, 05:09 AM
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#45
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
...It would be good if it didn't stop at two octaves, as three octaves would make guitar shape chords possible, which I'd love to add to the arsenal...
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Quite! Good point about extending beyond 2 octaves to accommodate certain guitar voicings etc. I suspect this might require a serious rethink about how it would work, but I definitely think it's a great idea!
(BTW, I edited my last post and removed the "C3_" bit because I subsequently realised we would need a selector in the ME for this if we want the voicing to be easily transposable across groups of octaves - no point in locking that into the scale file.)
(Also BTW; this would be a nice one: 1 "Min 11" 100000050000_00AB000000G0_00000K000000)
Last edited by Xasman; 02-20-2011 at 05:30 AM.
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02-20-2011, 05:10 AM
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#46
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,257
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Surely, all you have to do is drag the notes you want to spread, higher or lower, to spread the chord. A second dragged a octave higher is a ninth.
If we add to the way the file is written, you just get a mind boggling amount of possible chord files. There are a 100+ ways to play Cmajor on guitar alone, never mind on piano. The voicing of the chord should be up to the composer.
The biggest problem with the Reascale file is that as you load more scales or chords, what you get in Reaper is an impossibly large range of options. We need the custom Reascale file to overwrite the default so that you can customize to your own design.
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Last edited by zappadave; 02-20-2011 at 05:15 AM.
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02-20-2011, 05:42 AM
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#47
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zappadave
Surely, all you have to do is drag the notes you want to spread, higher or lower, to spread the chord. A second dragged a octave higher is a ninth...
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I'm fully aware that a second has the same note name as a ninth, but the point here is to be able to snap (either on note insert or) an existing set of notes to the nearest available note in the defined scale or chord at the correct octave without the need to drag anything anywhere.
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02-20-2011, 06:23 AM
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#48
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xasman
I'm fully aware that a second has the same note name as a ninth, but the point here is to be able to snap (either on note insert or) an existing set of notes to the nearest available note in the defined scale or chord at the correct octave without the need to drag anything anywhere.
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The second to ninth was just to illustrate the point. You are going to need quite a few bits of code just to cover all the different voicings and inversions of even one simple chord. Its just not practicable to fit them all on the screen.
In the end, it would be optional, so if you can convince JCS, why not.
The big problem is with showing all the scales and chords in Reaper and making it workable.
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02-20-2011, 08:15 AM
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#49
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 627
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For harmonic minor I don't see Im6 in any of the scale files I've loaded. I just see the Im(maj7) version. Am I just being blind?
EDIT: Never mind ... found it in the Exotic file as m6. As that's a standard I chord, not sure what's exotic about it.
Last edited by jmcecil; 02-20-2011 at 09:09 AM.
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02-20-2011, 09:01 AM
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#50
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zappadave
The second to ninth was just to illustrate the point. You are going to need quite a few bits of code just to cover all the different voicings and inversions of even one simple chord. Its just not practicable to fit them all on the screen.
In the end, it would be optional, so if you can convince JCS, why not.
The big problem is with showing all the scales and chords in Reaper and making it workable.
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I guess I let the horses run a bit far there . I think you're right in that we should concentrate on accessibility of what's there now.
Though, I think a quite nice guitar chord library could be achieved with not too many variations (about four to five per chord type would be extremely comprehensive already, a lot even need less). They could be loaded as an individual scale list to keep lists as short as possible.
But then again, would I stop there or next ask for complete wind section chord voicings across 4 octaves ?
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02-20-2011, 09:09 AM
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#51
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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Just wonderin'
Would it not be better if the scales were algorithmically generated (just as Dolmetsch does) rather than encoded in a long, long, error-prone list?
http://www.dolmetsch.com/pianochords.htm
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02-20-2011, 10:01 AM
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#52
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,257
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I have already got a spreadsheet with all known and theoretical scales.
I'm converting it to Reascale flies now, probably to a lot of smaller Reascale files. Should be ready in a few days.
At the moment this would overload Reaper.
I would prefer loading a scale file that overwrites the existing default, with a revert to default button. Then you can customize to your own liking, and make scale files for different purposes.
Ie Default
Modal
Raga etc
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02-20-2011, 10:50 AM
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#53
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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I agree. Maybe a possibility to "add to current list" and "replace current list" on list load would be cool? Like Photoshop does with it's brushsets, stylesets and similar lists, where you can load multiple short lists and cumulate the one that's needed for a certain project?
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02-20-2011, 11:01 AM
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#54
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zappadave
...The big problem is with showing all the scales and chords in Reaper and making it workable.
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Undoubtedly; and whether the usefulness of extending it beyond a single octave is worth the trouble I'm not really sure - I was just following through the logical implications of "snap to chord". I guess though, that there has to be a cut-off point somewhere and in fact I'm very happy that user-definable snap to scale/chord has been implemented at all (in its' current form).
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02-20-2011, 11:54 AM
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#55
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Too close to Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
Just wonderin'
Would it not be better if the scales were algorithmically generated (just as Dolmetsch does) rather than encoded in a long, long, error-prone list?
http://www.dolmetsch.com/pianochords.htm
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Wow, thanks for the kickass link!
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02-24-2011, 10:44 AM
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#56
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 673
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Another Idea for the MIDI scale transpose feature...
...would be the ability to avoid consecutive repeated pitches on transposing (since repeated notes are common especially when transposing from 7 or 8 note scales down to 5 or 6 note scales).
Suggest repeated notes could be flipped to the nearest available alternative interval (either up or down) if "avoid consecutive repeated notes" is selected. Possible?
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