Old 08-17-2014, 02:53 PM   #1
Colox
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Default Tips on female classic songs 1950-65?

I'm looking for quick inspirational tips for a song:

I'm producing a 'sweet' song for a female singer. The song is pretty much done, musically, but for the mixing and end work we need to give it a sound color of 'old times', 1950-1965 kindof, not unlike classics such as "Singing in the rain" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmCpOKtN8ME). The setting of the song, and the orchestrations is kindof like that song. Shirley Bassey's "Goldfinger" is nice too but I wouldn't call it 'sweet'.

I need a song like that as 'rolemodel', as inspirational work template.

So, just looking for quick tips on classic songs, by women, preferably 'sweet' songs, around 1950-1965, not unlike the "Singing in the rain" style.

thx for any input
/C
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:06 PM   #2
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What's wrong with using "Singing In The Rain", as well as the other songs from the film, as reference tracks?
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:11 PM   #3
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Any old Julie London really works but this one especially has little more orchestra with it.
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Old 08-18-2014, 02:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colox View Post
we need to give it a sound color of 'old times', 1950-1965 kindof
I'm not sure how much you already know so I'm going to cover all of it.

In no particular order…

Getting that authentic sound is more than just the sound, but a combination of sound, arrangement, instruments, mixing and performance of the musicians. When all are combined, you can get that magic sound.

In 1950-65, all electronic audio equipment used Vacuum Tubes/ Thermionic Valves instead of transistors, so audio had a unique quality to it. It gets compressed and distorts in a very pleasing way. It also loses top end. Avoid mixing with silky top end. Have low rich bass. Bass also loses definition with retro sounds. It’s more of a ‘boomp’ than a twang. Your kick drum should sound like it’s playing the bass.

You *will* need a valve/tube plugin. Variety of sound have free ones that are excellent. See links below.



Reverb
There are links below to some IR responses of an EMT 140 plate reverb, spring reverb and studio echo chambers. I’m including a few here for you that are wonderful. Spring reverbs were used in cheaper studios but many hits used these and they can be wonderful on vocals. There are also studio echo chambers. Echo chambers were open spaces in the studio (usually a basement) where a speaker fed the sound that needed treatment through to the space, and another mic recorded the ambience.

Note: Abbey Road had the signal to their EMT 140 cut below at 600Hz and everything above 10KHz (with an RS106 passive bandpass filter). You can and should cut the high end off any reverb, even down to 7KHz, 4KHz or so. You should never hear any sibilance or top end on it. Remember, silky top end and 50’s 60’s audio is no-go.

Bear in mind only a top-class studio might have both a plate and an echo chamber. To keep it authentic use the *one* reverb plugin send for everything and keep the reverb mono.


Mono
For true authenticity, mix it all in mono so it balances. Then, if you need stereo, pan groups only. In the US they had basic multi track recording (thanks to Les Paul) but multi track was not used in the UK until the late 60’s in general and notably with Sgt. Pepper’s.


Drums
Your live drums should be miked using the Glyn Johns method. If you are using a VSTi for drums, use the overheads, kick mic and snare mic only. Mix it roomy and back towards the middle of the room for a more defined sound or to the back for a roomy sound. Same for percussion.
The kick drum should be a 'boomp' and not a 'smack'. No clicky kick drums. The snare should be a roomy smack, when hit harder.
If you are programming the drums, do not use the loudest hits. Drummers back then played with lots of dynamics but were told to avoid loud hits when up close to mics.



Definition
Don’t mix for separation. Everything, apart from vocals, the up-front instruments (guitar riffs, lead lines etc.) should bleed and sound organic.


Recording vocals
As with today, the vocals should be the most important thing.
Don’t be afraid to add reverb so that the vocal rests inside it. Deep plate reverb is a main part of the vocal on this music.
Don’t use a de-esser. For any sibilants, tell the singer to place their hand in front of their mouths during any instance of a sibilant sound. This was the method at the time.
If your vocal mic has a pad, pad it (cut) the input. The mic should only drive during the loudest passages, and sound rich at other times.
For ballads and soft songs, mic the singer close.


EQ
Don’t use surgical EQ-ing. Balance and tone was mainly achieved by placement of instruments and mics in the studio. If you can, use an old style eq.


Performance
Minor mistakes, as long as they are not unmusical or ghastly, *should be left in on instruments* (but not string or orchestral parts). This adds period authenticity. Vocal performances should *always* be pristine.
Use lots of playing dynamics. Compression was not used on every channel but used to control problem instruments like electric guitars (to avoid overloading the desk)


Guitars
For electrics, use a heavier string gauge that has wound 3rd strings. Mic the amps with a condenser hung over in front or, space them back about 6 feet.
For lead guitar, there was no such thing as lead playing with pushing up a tone or more. Avoid slick modern style playing. For acoustics, record acoustically, do not DI.


Bass
On some female songs of this era, until the mid 60's, most tradtional arrangements used stand-up bass.
For electric bass: you can use flat wound strings for a plummy sound or stick with the wound type. Don't put new strings on. Keep the old ones. For late 60’s picky bass sounds like on Je T'Aime....Moi Non Plus by Jane Birkin & Serge Gainsbourg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9krvMqLnc5U) use a plectrum on a Fender Precision type bass and turn up the tone full on the guitar and middle/ treble on the bass amp. Use a valve amp if possible and turn it up so it grinds. Do not DI the bass guitar unless it’s a Motown sound you are after. DI'ing a bass was unheard of in the UK in 1950-65. Unlike today, reverb can be used on bass, but make sure you cut everything on the reverb under 400Hz.


Arrangements
The song arrangement *is everything*. You should aim to have each individual part like part of an orchestration, even if it is guitar-bass-drums-vocals. This is what George Martin did. Everything should be built up around the main vocal and work towards it. Accompanying vocals are next. Then any lead orchestration/instrumentation/guitar riffs. Rhythm should be at the back. Each part should be allowed space.


The Tube Sound
Use plugins accordingly without pushing them deliberately to distort. The total aggregate effect should result in something pleasing and authentic. The common mistake is to smother everything in tube drive. The total effect of this is mush, that would have got an engineer fired back in the day. Increase any valve effect around the loudest orchestral parts until they are rich but not mushing up or really distorting.


Mastering
On the buss, drive it as you like, with a brick wall limiter. Do not clip or maximize. If you like, add a little noise/tape hiss just so it’s noticeable on the fade.
If you really want it to sound like it was recorded in the 50s/60’s then avoid mastering it with the RMS pushed all the way up like modern recordings. The loudest peaks in the sound should just touch 0db. Do not flatten any peaks.


These are my own personal 1950’s / 60’s EMT 140, Studio Echo Chamber and Spring Reverb IRs. They are not to be used for resale commercially. Three of each. Should be sufficient for all uses.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/21517/EMT%20140%20Plate.zip
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/21516/Echo%20Chambers.zip
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/21515/Spring%20Reverbs.zip


Variety of Sound retro 50’s/60s *must haves*

http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/downloads/

BootEQ mkII (tube EQ)
FerricTDS (for Tape/Saturation)
ThrillseekerVBL (presets Tape 1&2)
NastyDLA (for Tape Delay effects)
epicVerb (for the plates–use mono).


Hope this helps or inspires.

Ian


Edited:

I should also add: all of the above works great for everything from Sinatra, France Gall to the Beatles, Simon & Garfunkel and 60's acoustic folk. Just add a 12-string electric and you are also hardcore 1965.

For modern uses you can also get that 'trashy lo-fi indie sound' like The White Stripes if you drive it all a bit harder.

Last edited by Retro Audio Enthusiast; 08-18-2014 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:08 AM   #5
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Thanks for the detailed answer ! bookmarked it.
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Old 08-18-2014, 09:32 AM   #6
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Yes, Retro Audio Enthusiast, that was great info. Obviously true to your handle.

Thanks!
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:46 AM   #7
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Sound-on-sound magazines "Classic Tracks" is a gold mine for this sort of stuff.
Free to read any article over 6 months old.
Here one on Shirley Bassey's 'Goldfinger':
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan1...racks-0114.htm
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:11 PM   #8
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You're welcome!

I should also add: all of the above works great for everything from Sinatra, France Gall to the Beatles, Simon & Garfunkel and 60's acoustic folk. Just add a 12-string electric and you are also hardcore 1965.

For modern uses you can also get that 'trashy lo-fi indie sound' like The White Stripes if you drive it all a bit harder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...2sMznHeec#t=44

(Editing my original post to include this info).

Last edited by Retro Audio Enthusiast; 08-18-2014 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:55 PM   #9
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Some sweet female pop sounds from around the period you may wish to reference include, Dionne Warwick ("Walk On By"), Petula Clarke ("My Love", "Downtown", etc), Jackie DeShannon ("What the World Needs Now is Love", "Needles and Pins", etc) and Dusty Springfield ("Wishin' and Hopin'", "You Don't Have to Say You Love Me")...
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:06 PM   #10
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A friend of mine made a free plug in (right now PC 32bit only but 64bit is in the making) recently which comes with different distortion and stompbox style fx. IIRC the TELEBOX mode could be interesting for you. While betatesting it I had some pretty good 40s&50s vocal fx. Maybe it´s a tad "too vintage" but you should give it a try. You can use it either fully wet or parallel. Runs great in Reaper. Best used on gainstaged material. Don´t mind the unpolished look. The gui will get an proper update once DC is over.

EpiCentre

And some track recommendations:

Janet Lawson - Dindi

Dorothy Ellison & Manfred Ludwig Sextett - Hit The Road Jack

Lorez Alexandria - Baltimore Oreole

Sharon Jones & Dap Tones - 100 Days 100 Nights

Not female but because of "Vocal meets Orchestra": Mark Murphy -> Why And How & Stolen Moments (and all his other stuff but these in particualr) and Eddie Jefferson - Psycedelic Sally & Filty McNasty

Regards
Sebastian
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Last edited by Halma; 08-18-2014 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 08-20-2014, 03:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halma View Post
And some track recommendations:

Janet Lawson - Dindi

Dorothy Ellison & Manfred Ludwig Sextett - Hit The Road Jack

Lorez Alexandria - Baltimore Oreole

Sharon Jones & Dap Tones - 100 Days 100 Nights

Not female but because of "Vocal meets Orchestra": Mark Murphy -> Why And How & Stolen Moments (and all his other stuff but these in particualr) and Eddie Jefferson - Psycedelic Sally & Filty McNasty

Regards
Sebastian
Oh wow - except for the Sharon Jones thing (can't stand anything they do) definitely tasty, but likely too funky! Mark Murphy's "Hip Parade" probably comes closer to the OP's request. I'd throw in France Gall "Le coeur qui jazze" & most of the Les Double-Six (esp. the "Quincy Jones") records.
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Old 08-20-2014, 09:24 PM   #12
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All I would add to the excellent post by Retro Audio Enthusiast would be the following:

Most of the big studios were just that: big. In New York, the big rooms -- like CBS/Columbia's Liederkranz Hall, the 30th Street and 52nd Street locations (52nd Street later became A&R Studios), Decca's Pythian Temple on West 70th Street (many artists recorded there, including Jackie Wilson, Bill Haley and lastly Joe Jackson) and RCA's Studio A on 24th Street -- were large spaces with open, airy sound. They all had enough space to hold a symphony orchestra with full choir. Keep in mind the ambiance of these kinds of spaces, and don't overdo the direct sound.

Check out this link: Scotty Moore's web page detailing Elvis' work at the RCA recording studios (among them, concert venues Webster Hall and Manhattan Center, along with RCA's rooms on 24th Street).
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:47 PM   #13
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Old 08-21-2014, 12:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Audio Enthusiast View Post
I'm not sure how much you already know so I'm going to cover all of it.
Thanks a lot!
Very cool reading
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Old 08-21-2014, 12:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
Thanks a lot!
Very cool reading
Plus one
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Old 08-21-2014, 12:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf View Post
Oh wow - except for the Sharon Jones thing (can't stand anything they do) definitely tasty, but likely too funky! Mark Murphy's "Hip Parade" probably comes closer to the OP's request. I'd throw in France Gall "Le coeur qui jazze" & most of the Les Double-Six (esp. the "Quincy Jones") records.
Thx. Agreed on the "likey too funky" subject but I thought the OP could be inspired by them mostly for their timbre. Funny thing is I already threw out the most funky ones (eg Florence Miller "The Groove I`m in"). On the other hand I still find that the Janet Lawson track is a very unique composition. Something you won´t find on every corner.

Thx for the Mark Murphy record. Did not know that one. Last time I was actively digging some crates is some years ago. Not to many record stores around and because of interweb most people know the prices already. Dang I miss the 90s where you could find stuff cheap on every flea market.
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halma View Post
Thx for the Mark Murphy record. Did not know that one. Last time I was actively digging some crates is some years ago. Not to many record stores around and because of interweb most people know the prices already. Dang I miss the 90s where you could find stuff cheap on every flea market.
Indeed! Even the shops didn't really know what they were selling back then (for 1 Deutschmark ). The "Hip Parade" record is a constant summer feel good favourite for me. But a glance towards the (growing) pile in front of the stereo reveals Murphy's "Rah!" album on top. Superb!
[gotta listen to it straight away now ]
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:09 AM   #18
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Hi,

The song that came to mind for me was "hello stranger".
That's all I got. Good luck op.

Guido

Ohh..any old Dean Martin, for the production. Big sound,pre stereo.

Last edited by LugNut; 08-28-2014 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 01-01-2015, 01:41 AM   #19
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Hey thanks for sharing these precious tips, I love pop music and I want to become one of the most famous female pop singers. My favorite ones are Katy Perry and Britney Spears.
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