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09-19-2014, 11:38 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 729
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Sweetening Guitar tracks
I do guitars through an ISO cab. I have the raw sound from the cab pretty well dialed in. Obviously they have no room sound / ambient qualities. I have been working with the various free reverbs available. Several of them just do plates which is not what I want. A few have a really gritty/spitty tail that do not sound good at all. So far Epicverb and SIR are the only that are doing it for me so far. Epicverb sounds OK solo but largely disappears in context. I have a big collection of impulses for SIR. I have not had a lot of time to try a lot of them. The latency is also a problem for use during tracking.
So, in short, what do you guys do/use to give your direct tracks / ISO tracks / Amp sims etc a sense of space in the real world vs being a 2 dimensional simulation?
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09-19-2014, 11:46 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,034
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Reverberate LE & Kalthallen cabs
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09-19-2014, 11:57 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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Give Kjaerhus Classic Reverb a try. It does a pretty convincing small room sound that I haven't heard other reverb plugins do.
Maybe there are some convincing room impulse responses for loading in reaverb, too.
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09-19-2014, 11:58 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwhalen
Reverberate LE & Kalthallen cabs
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He's using an iso cab.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
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09-19-2014, 12:01 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck
Give Kjaerhus Classic Reverb a try. It does a pretty convincing small room sound that I haven't heard other reverb plugins do.
Maybe there are some convincing room impulse responses for loading in reaverb, too.
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Thats an idea to be sure.
I do have the classic series plugs. I will have to pull them from the archive and check it out again.
Would the impulses I have for SIR work in reaverberate and have less latency?
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09-19-2014, 12:08 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 729
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I generally load up my effects into effects tracks (1 per track) and then use sends from whatever needs that effect to route it there. Just like we used to do it with hardware and saves processing power. I can't think of any reason that would cause issues but I thought I would put it out there to chew on if others disagree.
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09-19-2014, 12:53 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland
Would the impulses I have for SIR work in reaverberate and have less latency?
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I think the impulses should work. Reaverb can be set for zero latency by checking the 'zl' box and pressing play/stop (not sure why play/stop is necessary to reset the buffer, but it works).
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It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
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09-19-2014, 01:28 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 628
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Use algo verbs. Firstly - what's wrong with plates? The best free reverb happens to be plate Tal-Reverb-2, closely followed by PoorPlate(no gui, great sound this one). Then try DevilTubeSpringReverb (sounds great, but is a stomp box style fx - it can't be used as a send effect and is a bit hungry plug but other than that it's definitely a keeper). For $20 my go-to spring is Necklace by SKnote (put in another 10 bucks and add a great plate to the bundle - Verbtone. Those two plugs are great.
Then add Valhalla Room to that, if you can, and you're all set (and all the other Valhalla DSP plugs, of course). But that can wait. Let's see nice simple cpu light stuff: MVerb, Abstractchamber, DXReverbLight, Mo'Verb, VoxengoOldSchoolVerb. That's plenty enough and top quality stuff. other tha that you should have thos couple of great IRs libraries and you're all set (I think I linked them in another reverb thread you'd started, but may be wrong, tho. If you have problems finding them, just let me know and I'll find and post the links.
Of course the real secret here is not to find or have all the best free and/or commercial plugs. you have to narrow that down as much as possible. Example - I have an ambience a plate or two, a room, hall etc that i always start with. Some are presets that I tweaked, some I made from scratch, doesn't matter. Same with convolution verbs - I've already chosen a dozen of IRs that I like and that's it. So, generally I have maybe 10 algo presets and 10 convo. presets that I use as a starting point and and then tweak them further to make them fit the song (sometimes it's just the size or predelay, and sometimes I compress, gate, distort etc). In the hardware world I would probably have less than 10 of them etc. Ups, sorry for OT, but maybe it still helps a bit.
Cheers,
Alex
Last edited by alex1073; 09-21-2014 at 09:20 AM.
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09-19-2014, 01:30 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Most likely plates/rooms using Nebula but that is far beyond a quick thing IMHO. It's one of those things you might try if you were already familiar with Nebula in other words I would likely not say Nebula "just" for this as there is a curve among other things.
If you already had it and were familiar and had the libraries, I'd be tempted to say it would be a no-brainer but it can be a can of worms minus that.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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09-19-2014, 01:34 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex1073
Use algo verbs. Firstly - what's wrong with plates?
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A plate sounds like a plate, where a room sounds like a room. Ime, most algos do not sound like convincing rooms, but it could be user error on my part, and I'm willing to learn otherwise.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
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09-19-2014, 02:06 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck
He's using an iso cab.
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In that case...
http://www.samplicity.com/
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09-19-2014, 02:10 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Use algo verbs. Firstly - what's wrong with plates?
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Not a thing, love 'em. It just depends on what the person wants. If they want to recreate a room because they are using an iso box, not a plate cuz it isn't a room. Good/bad isn't the question but fitting of purpose. That doesn't mean a plate wouldn't sound great but it might not give what he is looking for.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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09-19-2014, 02:12 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Forgot to add, if you have a decent room, it would be easy to just reamp the room itself to grab it's ambience and mix it back in; especially if you do it in stereo.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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09-19-2014, 02:36 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
Forgot to add, if you have a decent room, it would be easy to just reamp the room itself to grab it's ambience and mix it back in; especially if you do it in stereo.
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Or use reaverb to create an impulse of the room.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
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09-19-2014, 02:41 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwhalen
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I only see impulses of hardware reverbs. Am I missing something?
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
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09-19-2014, 02:42 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck
Or use reaverb to create an impulse of the room.
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Yep, which reminds me... Going back to the mountains out in the middle of nowhere in a couple weeks. Hopefully I'll be getting some real mountain/valley reverb impulses again.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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09-19-2014, 03:17 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland
I do guitars through an ISO cab. I have the raw sound from the cab pretty well dialed in. Obviously they have no room sound / ambient qualities. I have been working with the various free reverbs available. Several of them just do plates which is not what I want. A few have a really gritty/spitty tail that do not sound good at all. So far Epicverb and SIR are the only that are doing it for me so far. Epicverb sounds OK solo but largely disappears in context. I have a big collection of impulses for SIR. I have not had a lot of time to try a lot of them. The latency is also a problem for use during tracking.
So, in short, what do you guys do/use to give your direct tracks / ISO tracks / Amp sims etc a sense of space in the real world vs being a 2 dimensional simulation?
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Reverberate LE is the best free convolution verb.
http://www.liquidsonics.com/software_reverberate_le.htm
Grab that and the bricasti M7 IR's from samplicity. Use the M-S IR in each folder as they are for mono to stereo (assuming the guitars are mono).
http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m...lse-responses/
There are lots of room, halls, plates and chambers all of very high quality. Try the large wooden room to start. Dont forget to put reaeq after the verb using filters to roll off the hi and lowend. For me Its rare to need anything below 200 or above 5k on a verb.
Also grab the free algo verbs in Alex1073's post above. To reiterate... if you want to step up from free algo's you cant beat Valhalla room or vintage for only $50 each. They hang with all the big boys.
Last edited by Magicbuss; 09-19-2014 at 03:32 PM.
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09-19-2014, 03:34 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck
I only see impulses of hardware reverbs. Am I missing something?
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No
But the free Bricasti M7 impulses are fantastic (best available IMO). The hardware unit is considered among the best reverb units ever made and retails for something stupid...like $5k
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09-20-2014, 08:43 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 5,065
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Valhalla Vintage Verb in "ambience" or "smooth room" setting, followed by a subtle UBK-1 saturation. It doesn't get any sweeter I might say. But subtlety is the key!
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Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
"If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
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09-20-2014, 08:53 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Online
Posts: 4,896
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Delay..real short.
Works on everything
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09-20-2014, 09:17 AM
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#21
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: United States of Europe, Germany, Mönchengladbach
Posts: 2,047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf
UBK-1 saturation
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thats where taste comes into play. I think that UBK saturation is the ugliest garbage I ever heard. if subtle means wet to zero, then ok, but then I dont need the thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic
Delay..real short.
Works on everything
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right. in the range of Haas delays, maximum 30ms, no feedback. additional advantage beside the room-feel without smearing is the resulting comb-filtering, that occurs more or less. so you can very subtle change the sound in changing the delay length.
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09-20-2014, 09:47 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 5,065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe
thats where taste comes into play. I think that UBK saturation is the ugliest garbage I ever heard. if subtle means wet to zero, then ok, but then I dont need the thing.
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Peaks should hardly tick the (virtual) LED. Just shave the sharp transients off and glue the whole thing. When it becomes audible, it might be "ugly garbage" but that's not what it is intended for. To my ears it's so amazing, I can't live without it. And I don't even mix in a "fashionable" or "modern" sound in mind
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Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
"If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
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09-20-2014, 05:18 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5,635
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Cut out at about 250hz. Split the track, pan hard right/left. Detune one side by about 5 cents and delay it by about 20ms. It gets instantly richer.
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09-21-2014, 10:00 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicbuss
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Try the Small Wooden Room (something like that), it works good for a lot of things including drums.
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09-22-2014, 11:57 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Northeast Michigan
Posts: 3,460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
Try the Small Wooden Room (something like that), it works good for a lot of things including drums.
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Nice tip, Tod! Thanks! I'm working on a mix now and was having a hard time finding the right drum sound. Works perfectly for this song!
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09-23-2014, 02:41 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: near Memphis, TN
Posts: 531
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+1 for the Bricasti M7 impulses
I use them for 90% of all reverb needs.
The wooden rooms are good. As are the "studio's"... Studio A, Studio B, etc...
London plate is rich. My first thought was running London Plate into Large Wooden Room to see what that sounds like.
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10-01-2014, 06:01 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 28
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Ditto on the super short delay (almost imperceptibly short) Mix it in where its barely audible.
When I have to go direct I have even used a chorus with the modulation off and just barely blended in. It does wonders.
I also like Sonic Maximizer in this scenario.
For reverb use a predelay to keep the muddyness down.
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