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Old 12-05-2009, 03:40 PM   #1
carbon
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Default Pole Shift - Heavy Metal for a Change

EDIT 2009-12-24 - Tabs:
http://www.kaspartorn.eu/tabs.html

EDIT - The latest mix 2009-12-09:
http://www.kaspartorn.eu/audio/kaspa...2009-12-09.mp3
------------------------------------------------------------------

This is my latest creation.
The main riffs got started while I was doing some sound tests with amp-sims.
They waited patiently until I was ready to use them somewhere.

I've been messing with synths more lately, so making a guitar-driven song has been long due.

It's not really mixed yet, just some initial sounds set with headphones.

Without further ado - "Pole Shift":
http://www.kaspartorn.eu/audio/kaspartorn_poleshift.mp3

Let it be written, let it be done
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=23


Enjoy!
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Last edited by carbon; 12-24-2009 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:42 PM   #2
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yes! Very nicely done man. Very interesting tune. Great playing also!

So are we to assume it's the ABG Meathead you used?
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:09 PM   #3
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Thanks!

No, not this time.
I used Revalver Flathill (Mesa) and TSE X30.
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:40 PM   #4
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awesome freaking riffage! nice and clear
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:43 PM   #5
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Excellent playing. Very, very impressive.

Also, what are the drums? Superior Drummer maybe?

OT
When you recorded this with Revalver, were you monitoring through Reaper using your M-Audio Delta Audiophile 24/96? If so, what latency do you get? A local music shop has one going cheap and I might get it.

Pete
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:08 PM   #6
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dammit, the link aint workin for me
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:58 PM   #7
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Sick solo's.
Loved the "Legend of Zelda" breakdown
You got chops dude.
Sweet sassy molassy.
\m/(>..<)\m/
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Old 12-06-2009, 01:14 AM   #8
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Jesus that rocked... You guys are scaring me. I just posted some stuff I did recently, THEN started listening to others tracks. Now I'm embarassed for even posting my stuff in the first place. LOL

This rocked.
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Old 12-06-2009, 05:00 AM   #9
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Thanks jinko17, stratman, pattonfreak1, SgtThump!


Quote:
Originally Posted by stratman View Post
Also, what are the drums? Superior Drummer maybe?

OT
When you recorded this with Revalver, were you monitoring through Reaper using your M-Audio Delta Audiophile 24/96? If so, what latency do you get?
Yes the drums are Superior2, Metal Foundry. I might use a kick and snare from Custom & Vintage - have to check how it lends itself to the double-kicking - might get overpowering.
The bassdrumm rolls and hits toward the last section are the G-Town Church samples.

I get 128spl 3.8/3.5ms reported latency with the Audiophile.


As for the playing chops - I'm really pushing my limits here, so it doesn't come easily.
I'm more comfortable in the 120-130bpm ballpark, 150bpm is a bit much for me.

It took a couple of evenings for the initial sketches for the solos.
Then I used about 5hrs for the first solo and 5hrs for the 2nd and 3rd.
I was composing as I went, not just recording.

It took a lot of practice, lots of takes and occasional simplification to get this done.
I started with more elaborate solos, but had to cut it down to make it possible.
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Old 12-06-2009, 05:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pattonfreak1 View Post
Loved the "Legend of Zelda" breakdown
This was one of those happy "accidents".
I had an idea to use electronic drums in that section, but it happened that synth sound as well as the rhythm had these lo-tech sounds going and that contrast intrigued me, so I kept it.
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Old 12-06-2009, 04:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbon View Post
As for the playing chops - I'm really pushing my limits here, so it doesn't come easily.
I'm more comfortable in the 120-130bpm ballpark, 150bpm is a bit much for me.

It took a couple of evenings for the initial sketches for the solos.
Then I used about 5hrs for the first solo and 5hrs for the 2nd and 3rd.
I was composing as I went, not just recording.

It took a lot of practice, lots of takes and occasional simplification to get this done.
I started with more elaborate solos, but had to cut it down to make it possible.
This is very honest of you and it's good to know you had to work at it. So I won't go out and bury my guitar in the garden just yet .

But it doesn't detract from the fact that it's superbly played with great time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbon View Post
I get 128spl 3.8/3.5ms reported latency with the Audiophile.
Thanks. I went out and got an Audiophile 2496 today and get the same latency. Finally I can play through Revalver MKIII with an acceptable latency without any pops or clicks. Wish I hadn't wasted my money on a Firewire interface, where I couldn't get less than 12ms total, which wasn't good enough.

Pete
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbon View Post
I was composing as I went, not just recording.
I do most of my solos the same way
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:47 AM   #13
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listening again. Killer riffs and arrangement, man. I Love your stuff I've heard so far but this is my favorite.
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Old 12-07-2009, 11:10 AM   #14
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Wow carbon!

I wish you could have seen the smile on my face when I heard that familiar opening riff. I can't believe how far you went with filling out and completing the composition of this song! What a tremendous amount of effort you must have put into this. It shows.

Right from the start, there is this super aggressive, gnarling, unrelenting tension and you keep it up for the full duration. Your playing is really remarkable as well. Great feel, great control and excellent tone.

Listening to this is making me feel really quite aggressive. This is what music is all about, baby!

I am in awe. Really. Thank you so much for sharing this! Jesus...
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Old 12-07-2009, 11:13 AM   #15
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This is a reminder to myself to listen later.
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Old 12-07-2009, 04:45 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by kindafishy View Post
Wow carbon!

I wish you could have seen the smile on my face when I heard that familiar opening riff. I can't believe how far you went with filling out and completing the composition of this song! What a tremendous amount of effort you must have put into this. It shows.

Right from the start, there is this super aggressive, gnarling, unrelenting tension and you keep it up for the full duration. Your playing is really remarkable as well. Great feel, great control and excellent tone.

Listening to this is making me feel really quite aggressive. This is what music is all about, baby!

I am in awe. Really. Thank you so much for sharing this! Jesus...

Thank you for your very kind words kindafishy!

It was a quite a bit of effort, but it never became a strain - it was still a continuous progress with specific targets for every day.

Still a lot to be done - mixing-wise...
I'm still quite green in that department, but I'll take it one task at a time - drums need my attention next.

Some songs, no matter how much effort you put into them just won't complete themselves.
I've learned over time to not push it and leave them waiting until I and the circumstances are aligned.

Thank you again shemp and Chris for later
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Old 12-07-2009, 06:46 PM   #17
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Nice!!! I loved the 8-Bit breakdown! That part is insanely cool!

Revalver sounds excellent in this!!

AWESOME! You say more has to be done mixwise? My only critique is that the bass guitar should come up to help push that driving rythym you have going on! Definitely more low mids on the bass guitar, and perhaps a tad of distortion would sound awesome! But, that's personal taste I guess.

Cool writing style too! The song makes some unexpected changes, which I loved!
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_P_Critter View Post
Nice!!! I loved the 8-Bit breakdown! That part is insanely cool!

Cool writing style too! The song makes some unexpected changes, which I loved!
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_P_Critter View Post
Revalver sounds excellent in this!!
There's also the TSE X-30, just a reminder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_P_Critter View Post
AWESOME! You say more has to be done mixwise? My only critique is that the bass guitar should come up to help push that driving rythym you have going on! Definitely more low mids on the bass guitar, and perhaps a tad of distortion would sound awesome! But, that's personal taste I guess.
Yeah, bass is a bit weak and it's sampled/MIDI (Independence free )

Will test your bass tips along with the drum sounds.
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:55 AM   #19
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Can't really turn up late at night but this one smokes! I have most of your stuff downloaded but this by far my favorite. I'm curious, what guitar and pickup are you using? Thank you for sharing this.
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:57 AM   #20
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This is friggin' NUTS!!! (in an extremely good way). You are one sick guitarist and composer!
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:07 AM   #21
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Thanks cyberturbo and jplanet!

The guitar is Ibanez RG1527RB Prestige(I think - can't see the number anywhere) with Blaze Custom (bridge) and Air Norton 7 (neck).

But then again, I get about the same sound on my 6-string RG with Seymour Duncan SH-13 (for the 6 strings, that is).
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:20 AM   #22
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good song and nice playing for sure!!

Some of it reminds me of Jeff Loomis' solo stuff a little. Which is a compliment and a good thing
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:51 PM   #23
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good song and nice playing for sure!!

Some of it reminds me of Jeff Loomis' solo stuff a little. Which is a compliment and a good thing
Thanks, had to google that one
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:59 PM   #24
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I've updated the first post with a new mix.

Any opinions from you guys with real monitors and experience are more than welcome.

Better or worse than before?
Anything specific to improve?

I have to say I'm struggling with the bass - either too boomy or not heard...
The fact that the sound is more heavily distorted now doesn't seem to shine through in the mix.
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:17 PM   #25
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Great tune! That is some badass riffing. I agree w/ Chris, it could use a little more bass presence, but that might just be cause I'm a bass player.
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbon View Post
I've updated the first post with a new mix.

Any opinions from you guys with real monitors and experience are more than welcome.

Better or worse than before?
Anything specific to improve?

I have to say I'm struggling with the bass - either too boomy or not heard...
The fact that the sound is more heavily distorted now doesn't seem to shine through in the mix.
One suggestion on the bass sound (actually I can't listen to the new mix now where I am but I can tonight), if you're still not happy with the bass sound, try removing frequencies form guitars and drums instead of doing anything to the bass sound at all...usually if you remove something around 100-200hZ from guitars and drums, and then something around 900hZ for whatever high-end snappiness the bass might have, the bass can pop right out...(ignore if you've tried this already!)
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Old 12-08-2009, 04:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbon View Post
I've updated the first post with a new mix.

Any opinions from you guys with real monitors and experience are more than welcome.

Better or worse than before?
Anything specific to improve?

I have to say I'm struggling with the bass - either too boomy or not heard...
The fact that the sound is more heavily distorted now doesn't seem to shine through in the mix.
Will check this out later, but for the bass, you're probably at the mercy of the sample that you're using. So, what I do is use some multiband compression to tame some of the really harsh low end frequencies - that makes things much more manageable from a level perspective because you're buying yourself more heardoom to work with by taming the low frequency spikes and whatnot (HP @ about 60hz I'd say, and slam the low mids with multiband - I usually start with 100-300 to start).

So for me, usually it's: Bass -> Multiband Comp (ReaXComp or I will often use T-Racks Multiband Limiter because I tune low, and only have a 4-String - I tend to get the "boom" when I don't want it) -> ReaEQ to shape the tone from there (I am usually VERY liberal with the cuts here).

Although if you're using a Bass VSTi, in addition to the above, something that would be neat to try would be to bounce the MIDI to audio, then run that as a DI through a GUITAR amp-sim (Something like Nick Crow 8505 with really low gain, with a good impulse), and HP it really high (maybe at about 3-500hz) just to bring out some of the mid range. Might sound like crap, but who knows - might add some mid range character so it's more audible in the mix.

This song is bad ass!
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Old 12-08-2009, 04:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Chris_P_Critter View Post
Although if you're using a Bass VSTi, in addition to the above, something that would be neat to try would be to bounce the MIDI to audio, then run that as a DI through a GUITAR amp-sim (Something like Nick Crow 8505 with really low gain, with a good impulse), and HP it really high (maybe at about 3-500hz) just to bring out some of the mid range. Might sound like crap, but who knows - might add some mid range character so it's more audible in the mix.
Already did this, although not with Nick Crow, but Revalver Matchbox and an Ampeg impulse.
I'll try the multiband as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jplanet
One suggestion on the bass sound (actually I can't listen to the new mix now where I am but I can tonight), if you're still not happy with the bass sound, try removing frequencies form guitars and drums instead of doing anything to the bass sound at all...
Thanks, will try this...


Quote:
Originally Posted by HailCorduroy
Great tune! That is some badass riffing. I agree w/ Chris, it could use a little more bass presence, but that might just be cause I'm a bass player.
Yeah, the bass is my main focus now.
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:47 AM   #29
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Thanks, had to google that one
Oh wow. Judging from your audio I thought you definitely had heard some of his stuff. You should check out his instrumental album "Zero Order Phase", I'm pretty sure you can appreciate at least some of it.

I don't have any decent monitors or anything hooked up right now so I'm not chippin in on the bass issue..I do enjoy the 2nd version as well though
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:22 AM   #30
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Updated the mix in the first post.

Now, following your tips I could bring the bass forth as much as needed or more.
But now I've hit the limit where I can't push the levels of the bass more without it becoming obnoxiously fake - so I think this is as far as the sampled bass goes.

Perhaps some day I'll re-record the bass parts with my DIY fretless aluminum T-beam 2-string bass (still missing a proper pickup, using a 7-string guitar pickup rotated length-wise ).

So how does the overall balance sound on the other side of the ocean?
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:33 AM   #31
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Definitely a fuller sound!!

For metal, that sampled bass doesn't sound too bad at all - it's buried sufficiently enough, and just adds girth to the guitars, so - it works!

PS - my son loves this song - he's 5 years old and is sitting here bobbing his head! He will be a little guitar virtuoso one day!
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:58 AM   #32
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Definitely a fuller sound!!

For metal, that sampled bass doesn't sound too bad at all - it's buried sufficiently enough, and just adds girth to the guitars, so - it works!

PS - my son loves this song - he's 5 years old and is sitting here bobbing his head! He will be a little guitar virtuoso one day!

Good to hear it was an improvement!

At first my 3.5yrs old daughter enjoyed it too, but this was a few hundred listens ago.
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:00 PM   #33
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I'll have a second helping, please, sir!
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:40 AM   #34
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I'll have a second helping, please, sir!
By all means!
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:23 PM   #35
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That was amazing! i'm a metal guitarist myself but i can never get killer drums like that.
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:21 AM   #36
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That was amazing! i'm a metal guitarist myself but i can never get killer drums like that.
Glad you liked it!

The best thing you could do then, is find a drummer.
The next best choice, find a Superior 2 drummer.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:07 PM   #37
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Default Tabs Available!

As a Christmas present for (us) all guitar playing enthusiasts

I've completed the guitar tabs(+synth) for the Pole Shift.
It's available in the tabs section of my webpage:
http://www.kaspartorn.eu/tabs.html

Here's a small sample:


It's a GuitarPro file, so the best way to view/play it, is with GP5.
Most of the content translates also to the free alternative - TuxGuitar:
http://tuxguitar.herac.com.ar/

Happy tapping!
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:16 PM   #38
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I'll never be able to tap clean enough to pull this off
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Old 12-24-2009, 01:41 AM   #39
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Very clean and good mix. And the 80's DOS era arrangemnt was a killa'!!!

And whom is this band? Yours?

God, the rumbles in the second half are scary!!!
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:51 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adXok View Post
Very clean and good mix. And the 80's DOS era arrangemnt was a killa'!!!
And whom is this band? Yours?
Thanks! No band, just me


Quote:
Originally Posted by jinko17
I'll never be able to tap clean enough to pull this off
For cleaner results, try to dampen the strings with a rubber-band/hair-band/tie a sock/half tight capo etc.
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