Old 02-14-2017, 09:42 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by thunderbroom View Post
I appreciate your hard work, Dave, but like Tod, my month is spiraling into a much more busy cycle. Plus this mix would take so much work to get it sounding "listenable" that I might try it for the sake of practice at some point, but no way will I have anywhere near the time it would take to make it work. Looking forward to hearing the other submissions though.
i think i did the same too.
too much travelling this month, so i will wait for the next contest.
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Old 02-15-2017, 07:59 AM   #42
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I should be able to make that deadline. On my setup, I think this song actually sounds pretty good so far. I put more time into this one than the last one already so far. I think just a few more tweaks in the upcoming days, and I should be good to go.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:48 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by REAmix View Post
I should be able to make that deadline. On my setup, I think this song actually sounds pretty good so far. I put more time into this one than the last one already so far. I think just a few more tweaks in the upcoming days, and I should be good to go.
ok cool
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Old 02-16-2017, 12:53 AM   #44
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Same for me. A few days and it´s ready.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:26 PM   #45
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Same for me. A few days and it´s ready.
that's great germano!
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:27 PM   #46
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Default Rough Mix

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9T...ew?usp=sharing

This isn't a mix or a submission - It took me a bit to import all of the tracks and then messed around with the kit after all of the comments posted.It would be nice to have a fader mix of the song to listen to in the original post, I think more people might get interested in mixing the tracks if they hear and like the song.

I like the song, if I can scrape together some time before the deadline I'll give it a go.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:52 AM   #47
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Hey guys..

Finished with my mix but am quite new to this and am looking for the short answer because of time constraints..

1. How do I zip my project
2. How to meet the requirement of 'a master mix (limited to -0.2 dB and at -14 LUFS): FLAC, 44.1 kHz, 24 bit' - with Reaper plugins.

Many thanks!
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:04 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by trevlyns View Post
Hey guys..

Finished with my mix but am quite new to this and am looking for the short answer because of time constraints..

1. How do I zip my project
2. How to meet the requirement of 'a master mix (limited to -0.2 dB and at -14 LUFS): FLAC, 44.1 kHz, 24 bit' - with Reaper plugins.

Many thanks!
hi,

to create a zip folder you can either use programs such as WinRar or 7zip, or (if you are using Windows) right click on an empty space and go to new > compressed folder (then drag your files inside that folder).

To meet the requirements you need a vst that allows you to check the loudness of your song. I personally use Youlean Loudness Meter, which is free.

To limit the output volume of your track, then you need a limiter. You can use the JS effect: "Even horizon limiter/clipper".

The rest of the requirements are for the rendering.
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:57 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Andy Hamm View Post
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9T...ew?usp=sharing

This isn't a mix or a submission - It took me a bit to import all of the tracks and then messed around with the kit after all of the comments posted.It would be nice to have a fader mix of the song to listen to in the original post, I think more people might get interested in mixing the tracks if they hear and like the song.

I like the song, if I can scrape together some time before the deadline I'll give it a go.
I agree that a fader mix would definitely be nice. That would let people hear what the song is like, without downloading anything, which would mean more people might audition it, to see if they are interested.

But, it *is* more work, and so is more entrants. There are actually few versions of this song up on YouTube so you can hear the song, but, it doesn't give you an idea about the audio we are working with. I think a first glance at hearing the true stems would have been more inspiring to me, although I probably wouldn't have heard that click on the kick, and there were some things I just chopped out of there.

One extension I added to chrome, is "Search YouTube" in right click context menu. So, I just highlighted the song and band name, and chose that option, and a few mixes came up. There were a few unnecessary words in the highlighted text, but it still worked, and that's at least something and it's basically just as easy as clicking a link.

Then, if the song seems interesting, it might be worth it to checkout the stems.

But I agree, hearing a fader mix would be ideal. Even just a render of everything at unity would be fine. That's always how I listen to it first, and that gives a rough idea.


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Originally Posted by trevlyns View Post
Hey guys..

Finished with my mix but am quite new to this and am looking for the short answer because of time constraints..

1. How do I zip my project
2. How to meet the requirement of 'a master mix (limited to -0.2 dB and at -14 LUFS): FLAC, 44.1 kHz, 24 bit' - with Reaper plugins.

Many thanks!
Just to add, I use JS master limiter as my limiter on my master. I prefer to use a number of instances, because that's a better way to get the loudness you want, while still avoiding any distortion you might get.

For the -0.2 limit, there is a slider that sets the limit, and you can set it to that. If you have only one instance, that should be all you need to do for that, except, you'll want to keep your fader for the master track at 0. The limiter will only accurately limit to the value you set there, if the fader is at zero.

So, a good solution for that is, before putting any of your plugins on your master, open up a pre-fader envelope, leave it flat, and just bring it up as high as you can so the song doesn't clip. Listen to the song a bunch of times is pretty slow, so I would recommend rendering it, and you'll see if there is any clipping that way. Or, if you already have plugins on your master and you want something faster, just keep your limiter off for now, and use a normal volume envelope and do the same. And if you're pretty confident you know exactly where the loudest part of your song is, you can just audition that section to see if it clips.

Then stick your limiter on there, and set the limit to -0.2, and that part of the criteria will be satisfied.

For the LUFS part, I use Youlean as well. There is another free plugin for that, but I forget what it's called. I unfortunately don't know the link for Youlean either I see it in my downloads history, but I can't get a link from that. It is this filename though specifically; "Youlean Loudness Meter Windows v1.0.5.zip" Once you install that, it's really small, you put that as the last plugin on your master. Now when you hit play you will see the meters go. The one that matters is the middle "integrated" LUFS value. This is essentially the average audio level over time, just a mathematically smart standard to do that with. So, we are looking for average of the whole song to be at -14. For this, you will need to play the whole song from start to finish, and then see what the value is. You can do this with renders as well, since they "playback" much faster. If you leave Youlean open while you render, you can watch the meters in real time. But if you don't it's ok, as long as you don't hit play again, it will keep the old values from the last playthrough. If you end up with -16, for example, your song is a bit too quiet, so you can go to your limiter, and lower the threshold. That will make a bit louder. If it's already too loud, like -12 or something, then you would need to do the opposite, and back your threshold off a bit.

So, to recap,

1. Set volume as loud as possible without clipping using an envelope on the master.

2. Stick a limiter at the end of your signal chain so far, and set the limit value to -0.2

3. Get Youlean and stick it after the limiter, the very last thing on the master track.

4. Make sure the middle integrated number reads -14 LUFS, or close, on an entire playthrough of the song.
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:07 AM   #50
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There is another free plugin for that, but I forget what it's called.
Orban Loudness Meter - What makes it worthwhile is that it allows you to drag/drop a render into it which processes much faster than having to allow the song to play from beginning to end if using a meter ITB.

FWIW, LUFs measurements read the entire song beginning to end in order to accurately calculate so using it offline as a sanity check is just faster and easier.
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:30 AM   #51
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Excellent advice as always fella's - Thanks!
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:38 AM   #52
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OK - I think I have it e-mailed - can you confirm it's received as it should be? Thanks!
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:43 AM   #53
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OK - I think I have it e-mailed - can you confirm it's received as it should be? Thanks!
yep but please don't send the source files...

edit: oh god, I've just opened your folder! It's a mess! What am I supposed to use? Come on guys, make my life easier xD
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:55 AM   #54
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How to pack up a mix:

0a. If you converted Flac to Wav, open the .rpp in a text editor and file/replace .wav with .flac.
0b. Check the project is using the Flacs properly
1. Make sure all audio files are being referenced to the 'Source' folder in the project directory.
2. Save the project
3. Send the zipped .rpp along with any impulses you used, etc

For the future, if anyone wants to simplify the flac > wav thing, it's easiest to do this:

1. Import all the Flac
2. Use Reaper's Batch convert to convert all the flac to wav
3. Import all the wav right next to the flac, double check they're in the same order
4. Overlap the wav over the flac in the same tracks
5. Select all, right click, implode to takes
6. Optionally, turn off multiple takes display so you are just seeing the single Wav take
7. Remove the flac files from the folder, so they can't possibly be used by Reaper

When the mix is done, replace the flac files in the folder just to make sure they're working. Remove the wav takes and all your items should now be the flac versions, no matter what splitting you did.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:23 AM   #55
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yep but please don't send the source files...

edit: oh god, I've just opened your folder! It's a mess! What am I supposed to use? Come on guys, make my life easier xD
I did warn you I was new to this

I have a separate drive in which is a folder called Reaper projects. In that folder, I have a project file called 'what have you done to me'. It contains all the audio, revisions and backups. That is the file I sent together with a mixed down FLAC of the final mix.

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File Type: png Untitled.png (44.6 KB, 113 views)
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:57 AM   #56
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What is the right file? I mean the session
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:07 AM   #57
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I think I've sent mine in, for what it's worth.
I found this month's mix a real challenge, and only had a few days to play with it.
From a newbie mixers perspective, I didn't really know where to start - quite a lot of tracks and lots to do on most of them.
From the perspective of a long-time musician, if I'd gone into a studio and come out with these stems, I'd be really pissed off! I thought they were very poor quality, especially the drums & bass, but I guess we can share opinions and compare notes in the post-mortem.
Good luck to everyone who enters - I'm intrigued to hear everyone's mixes.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:09 PM   #58
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What is the right file? I mean the session
The last one (excluding the .wav).- '1.7 Final Mix'
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:15 PM   #59
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Tend to agree Bass6 - I ended up getting a drum mix by a combination of mic bleeds. There is also bad clipping in places. Anyway, a good experience; if I'm ever asked to mix someone else's work
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:34 PM   #60
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The last one (excluding the .wav).- '1.7 Final Mix'
got it
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:18 PM   #61
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I won't say too much so as not to single myself out, but although a lot of stuff took some work, for me some of the worse recordings were the vocals, because there wasn't much you could really do to fix them.

These vocals were stitched together vocals from the vocalist singing in different rooms. Sometimes a dead one, and sometimes just a sort of regular sounding room. And these would change word to word. I tried to sort of fix one of them, but that was where I drew the line, along with most pitch correction. But I think this song would be pretty cool with some pitch correction and vocalign.

The clipping on the drums was a bitch, and I think I could maybe have done better getting them to sound better, but I think I did alright with it. The bass was also kind of rough. Bass is hard to get right if it isn't recorded well by a good bass, I find. Especially if they put some slap parts into it, where you'll want some crisp attack in the higher frequencies.
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:53 PM   #62
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Sorry trevlyns, your session is linking to glued files, which I said I don't want for management reasons you still have time to fix it and I won't close you the doors at the 19th

edit: I'm just waiting for the session file. I'm going to upload your mix anyway, don't worry mate
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Old 02-17-2017, 03:41 PM   #63
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Strange? I thought I only healed some items I'd worked on ... I'll recheck.

EDIT: OK, sorted - I've re-submitted
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:19 PM   #64
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I've never been so frustrated with a mix. This was well outside of my ability and I really struggled with all the guitars.

I had the bass really good the first session, listening to the mix AFTER I sent it in and I'm hearing so much wrong with that, and also the vocals are all over the place in a terrible way.

If I win this one I'll be ashamed XD

This song does need better arrangment.

In total I took out one background vocal, 2 lines of another background vocal, all the shakers (not the right rhythm and sounded fake), the clean guitar (why??), Tom 2 (lol, mic'd a drum that never got used), and in the end I also said to hell with the hi-hat mic, there was a nice blend of snare and hi hat on the snare track and I used that and the overheads.

If I mixed this again I'd pay even more attention to vocal leveling, which I did... and then I ruined it all by making last minute changes while I had ear fatigue.

I don't care anymore.

I did use automation items for the first time and its not a techno song so I deserve at least one cookie.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:01 PM   #65
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9T...ew?usp=sharing

Farted around with this a bit tonight and found out I don't know how to select parts of wave(Flac in this case) files in Reaper!

Have a show tomorrow, hope to squeeze an hour or so in on Sunday to get it done.
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Old 02-18-2017, 11:18 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
I've never been so frustrated with a mix. This was well outside of my ability and I really struggled with all the guitars.

I had the bass really good the first session, listening to the mix AFTER I sent it in and I'm hearing so much wrong with that, and also the vocals are all over the place in a terrible way.

If I win this one I'll be ashamed XD

This song does need better arrangment.

In total I took out one background vocal, 2 lines of another background vocal, all the shakers (not the right rhythm and sounded fake), the clean guitar (why??), Tom 2 (lol, mic'd a drum that never got used), and in the end I also said to hell with the hi-hat mic, there was a nice blend of snare and hi hat on the snare track and I used that and the overheads.

If I mixed this again I'd pay even more attention to vocal leveling, which I did... and then I ruined it all by making last minute changes while I had ear fatigue.

I don't care anymore.

I did use automation items for the first time and its not a techno song so I deserve at least one cookie.
I've received your submission! Nothing's missing but a JS effects: stereotilt. Can you send it to me please? Thanks!
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Old 02-19-2017, 05:30 AM   #67
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I've just send my submission.
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Old 02-19-2017, 06:40 AM   #68
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I've just send my submission.
got it
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:59 AM   #69
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I'm going to upload all the submissions tomorrow morning, so feel free to send me yours if you still hadn't!
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Old 02-19-2017, 05:37 PM   #70
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Everything is up and running.
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:24 AM   #71
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We should remove the volume restrictions for mastering I think. They are not being respected, and that makes a BIG difference. It's also a lot of work to make sure they are all being followed, and even if they were enforced, and submissions were eliminated on those grounds, we'd probably lose a large number of submissions.



I viewed the submissions file in reaper, and the meter on the right is the track I made, which I know followed the guidelines well, and the one on the left was just another track, not especially selected for its loudness. It was just a nearby one.

Obviously, they wouldn't conform to the specifications listed for the contest since they are in a new project now, but they should be very similar in "LUFS" and "True Peak Max", and they are really far from being that.

This has a big effect on perception, which is why you'd want to have those guidelines controlled, but if it's not practical to enforce them, then all it does is hurt the submissions that do follow the guidelines.

It's just a sort of meaningless contest, so it's no big deal, but it makes no sense to have volume restrictions if they aren't respected. You could see a noticeable difference on the waveforms in my submissions project, also.

I'm not actually sure how it is even possible there is such a difference in tru peak max, since I limited my project to -0.2, which would only leave 0.2db of room for louder, whereas this shows ~4db of difference, which I don't understand.

Maybe it was somehow in the conversion to mp3. Not really sure why there was a conversion to mp3 either, tbh.

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Old 02-20-2017, 08:43 AM   #72
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Is there a Reaper Plug that shows you this info? I normally use another plug for this, but this project states that I can't use it.

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We should remove the volume restrictions for mastering I think. They are not being respected, and that makes a BIG difference. It's also a lot of work to make sure they are all being followed, and even if they were enforced, and submissions were eliminated on those grounds, we'd probably lose a large number of submissions.



I viewed the submissions file in reaper, and the meter on the right is the track I made, which I know followed the guidelines well, and the one on the left was just another track, not especially selected for its loudness. It was just a nearby one.

Obviously, they wouldn't conform to the specifications listed for the contest since they are in a new project now, but they should be very similar in "LUFS" and "True Peak Max", and they are really far from being that.

This has a big effect on perception, which is why you'd want to have those guidelines controlled, but if it's not practical to enforce them, then all it does is hurt the submissions that do follow the guidelines.

It's just a sort of meaningless contest, so it's no big deal, but it makes no sense to have volume restrictions if they aren't respected. You could see a noticeable difference on the waveforms in my submissions project, also.
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:14 AM   #73
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Is there a Reaper Plug that shows you this info? I normally use another plug for this, but this project states that I can't use it.
This plugin doesn't affect the sound. It's just a meter. You just need it to test the loudness, then you can delete it and send off your *.rpp.

Even if you forget to delete it (which I think I may have, come to think of it), reaper will complain that a plugin is missing when you go to open it, and you can just leave it offline, it won't make any difference to the project.

All meter plugins should yield the same result.

I think there is something I'm missing about mp3 conversion also.

Maybe they needed to be converted to mp3 so google drive could read them, but I think that also affected loudness somehow somewhere in that process.
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:19 AM   #74
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Is there a Reaper Plug that shows you this info? I normally use another plug for this, but this project states that I can't use it.
You can use any plugin that doesn't affect the sound, just remove it before uploading. However...

As I mentioned earlier, since LUFs needs to evaluate the entire song from beginning to end, you can use Orban Loundess meter, it is much better for the job because you can just drag a render into it and see the correct result in a few seconds verses having to wait for the song to play through in Reaper. There are some actions that do similar but A) I forget what they are and B) Orban seems just too easy.

I only use ITB LUFs plugins as sort of a "you are here" meter because I'm not sitting around all day running the song from start to finish in real time just to get the right calculation. Here is a screenshot (not for the contest, just showing how it works).



What you are shooting for with the red arrows above is -14 Integrated and -.2 True peak (Highest reconstructed)
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Last edited by karbomusic; 02-20-2017 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:19 AM   #75
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Well that would have saved me some time, I have a spectrum analyzer that I pfl too that I couldn't use either!


Quote:
Originally Posted by REAmix View Post
This plugin doesn't affect the sound. It's just a meter. You just need it to test the loudness, then you can delete it and send off your *.rpp.

Even if you forget to delete it (which I think I may have, come to think of it), reaper will complain that a plugin is missing when you go to open it, and you can just leave it offline, it won't make any difference to the project.

All meter plugins should yield the same result.

I think there is something I'm missing about mp3 conversion also.

Maybe they needed to be converted to mp3 so google drive could read them, but I think that also affected loudness somehow somewhere in that process.
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:20 AM   #76
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Incidentally, is it just me, or could anyone else not figure out what she is singing in the first line of the first verse?
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:29 AM   #77
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I think it's 'I'm part of all the public kissing'

Sorry about Stereo Tilt I thought that was a Reaper plug. Should be!
I'll send it now.

It's part of Liteon's pack, it turns out.
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:39 AM   #78
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I think it's 'I'm part of all the public kissing'

Sorry about Stereo Tilt I thought that was a Reaper plug. Should be!
I'll send it now.

It's part of Liteon's pack, it turns out.
Yeah, I got something like that out of that part, it's the first line that had me all messed up.

Just listened to Cup of Ambition - Great Tune.
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:25 AM   #79
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Incidentally, is it just me, or could anyone else not figure out what she is singing in the first line of the first verse?
Ya, idk exactly what she is singing either. I had issues with the meter Karbo's using. Since he has none, I must be doing something wrong. I also didn't get that screen shot. It didn't like sharing my audio with reaper, and other things. It is a lot faster than playing through the entire song, but the meters work fine for Youlean during render also. So, you can leave it open while you render, or check it immediately after before hitting play. A render is almost as fast as the other meter processes the audio. But that's a key thing as well. If you listen to it the whole way through at normal speed every time, that would suck pretty bad.
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:31 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by REAmix View Post
Ya, idk exactly what she is singing either. I had issues with the meter Karbo's using. Since he has none, I must be doing something wrong. I also didn't get that screen shot. It didn't like sharing my audio with reaper, and other things. It is a lot faster than playing through the entire song, but the meters work fine for Youlean during render also. So, you can leave it open while you render, or check it immediately after before hitting play. A render is almost as fast as the other meter processes the audio. But that's a key thing as well. If you listen to it the whole way through at normal speed every time, that would suck pretty bad.
Were you missing the LKFS? See the blue button next to CBS? There is one right before ITU that was invisible until I hovered over it, changed it to Red as Karbo did and it works.
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