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05-01-2009, 08:54 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,580
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The Solomon Papers
Not sure where to post this, but yesterday I found the fabled Solomon Papers. This is an amazing resource for an overview in contemporary music theory.
http://solomonsmusic.net/theory.htm
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05-01-2009, 09:24 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 653
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Wicked. Thanks for sharing
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05-01-2009, 02:39 PM
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#3
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,166
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Great, thanks Steve.
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05-01-2009, 03:29 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: JAMAICA
Posts: 492
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gratitude!
Thanks lots, for the font of blessing this is.
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05-02-2009, 10:15 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,580
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Hey, you're welcome. I was excited to finally find a post with a working link to this. For years the links I did find were broken. Gotta love the web!
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05-02-2009, 01:42 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North by Northwest
Posts: 41
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what is the significance of these Solomon papers?
Thanks
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05-02-2009, 02:35 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue
what is the significance of these Solomon papers?
Thanks
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Yeah, until someone confirms that it's not Jewish folk music, then I'm not clicking on that link......
__________________
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05-02-2009, 02:42 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,173
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Thanks for the link, I have found it really interesting......and when combined with THIS you are sure to reach for the aspirin!
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05-02-2009, 05:57 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,580
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Erm, click on the link, read a topic that interests you. If it doesn't don't click on the link again. Pretty simple, really.
That a man has offered his life's work for free, I think, is fucking amazing.
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05-02-2009, 06:04 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smueske
Erm, click on the link, read a topic that interests you. If it doesn't don't click on the link again. Pretty simple, really.
That a man has offered his life's work for free, I think, is fucking amazing.
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You did say they were "fabled". I was making a joke because the guy's name is Solomon, but I think me and Sue were just curious to know the history of it, and why they are "fabled", because I'm not familiar with this person.
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Since it looks like everyone else is doing it ;) :) :P :
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05-02-2009, 06:28 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6
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... ... ...
Last edited by Justin; 05-03-2009 at 02:22 AM.
Reason: now now lets be nice
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05-02-2009, 10:23 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muldoon
Yeah what's so goddamn important about this ...
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good bye, troll.
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05-03-2009, 12:17 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guod3
good bye, troll.
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Lol goodbye, poof.
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05-03-2009, 08:20 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sheridan, Oregon USA
Posts: 107
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thanks
Being into music, and also interested in Recording, but not really being trained.... thank you very much for two such interesting links...
The Beatles one is great, and the other looks cool too.
Thanks both of you.
__________________
boot_me
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05-03-2009, 08:20 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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thank you guys so much for these links, very interesting.
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05-03-2009, 10:02 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,173
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They are pretty cool to go thru, I can waste a few hours at a time in both with no problem...
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05-03-2009, 12:54 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North by Northwest
Posts: 41
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I wasn't trying to start anything here. Sorry if that came across as my intent. I just never heard of the guy, or his papers and was curious about the background on them. As Devin stated, you did say they were fabled, and that sort of statement has a tendency to make a person curious.
Last edited by Sue; 05-03-2009 at 12:58 PM.
Reason: spelling
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05-03-2009, 01:37 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,580
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You know, the Internet is a weird place. There's no context for communication. My thought was that I'd throw up the link and the material would speak for itself.
As for "fabled" -- it was a little tongue-and-cheek, but not a lot.
A short history: for a few years I'd been hearing of a collection of unpublished books, essays, lecture notes, and such by a music theorist named Larry Solomon. Every time I found a link, it would be broken. A few days ago I came across a thread about this on another forum. This time, the link worked. Needless to say, I was floored by the content.
My intent, really, was just to share this. There's really not much of a story here. But, seriously, this is this man's life's work. I find it an incredible source of inspiration and am humbled by this gift. Maybe everyone won't feel this way. Finding a trove of music theory that covers this much scope would take, literally, years of searching. Personally, I don't even feel worthy of this. A lot of it is over my head, and I've been studying theory for the bulk of my life. But I'm going to dig in, and I hope others join me.
As a real quick side-note, I was aghast at the anti-semitism that followed. Every time I think we've progressed as real people living in a real world with problems, I am faced with the ugliness of racism. I may be a little touchy because I'm writing a graduate paper on the first crusade and remain shocked and disgusted by the events that transpired even before the first crusade theoretically began (it would take more time than anyone cares about to really discuss that). Let's just say that some of the comments provoked an emotional reaction in me.
Please, just focus on the music. That's all I meant.
Last edited by smueske; 05-03-2009 at 01:40 PM.
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05-03-2009, 02:06 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 6,919
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Steve,
First off... how the hell are you? Hope you're well.
Thanks for the link to these papers, they contain a wealth of knowledge. Hopefully I can expand my limited of music theory.
__________________
Peace...
bluzkat
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05-03-2009, 02:13 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 340
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Nice papers, from the brief reading I had of them, BTW. I have bookmarked them for when I have more time, thanks...
As far as Muldoon, IMHO people shouldn't take too much offense, clearly something is a bit off about him/her/it. Anybody who randomly spouts completely pointless hate speech towards a religion, and then calls somebody a "poof" in retaliation, clearly isn't all there in the head. Can anyone re-read those 2 one-liner posts and imagine this person as a normal, well-adjusted, mentally healthy adult? Not cool, but nothing to get worked up over, either... IMHO, IMHO, IMHO...
__________________
Since it looks like everyone else is doing it ;) :) :P :
AMD Phenom X4 9500 @ 2.2ghz, Gigabyte MA770-DS3, 4 x 1gb Corsair DDR2-800 CAS4(running CAS5 because raising DIMM voltage beyond JEDEC specs is teh suck), Samsung Spinpoint F1, M-Audio Audiophile 192, ATI Radeon 3400 GPU, and a beautiful Antec Earthwatts 430w PSU... and of course... the latest, greatest version of Reaper with a non-commercial license.
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05-03-2009, 02:38 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North by Northwest
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smueske
You know, the Internet is a weird place. There's no context for communication. My thought was that I'd throw up the link and the material would speak for itself.
As for "fabled" -- it was a little tongue-and-cheek, but not a lot.
A short history: for a few years I'd been hearing of a collection of unpublished books, essays, lecture notes, and such by a music theorist named Larry Solomon. Every time I found a link, it would be broken. A few days ago I came across a thread about this on another forum. This time, the link worked. Needless to say, I was floored by the content.
My intent, really, was just to share this. There's really not much of a story here. But, seriously, this is this man's life's work. I find it an incredible source of inspiration and am humbled by this gift. Maybe everyone won't feel this way. Finding a trove of music theory that covers this much scope would take, literally, years of searching. Personally, I don't even feel worthy of this. A lot of it is over my head, and I've been studying theory for the bulk of my life. But I'm going to dig in, and I hope others join me.
As a real quick side-note, I was aghast at the anti-semitism that followed. Every time I think we've progressed as real people living in a real world with problems, I am faced with the ugliness of racism. I may be a little touchy because I'm writing a graduate paper on the first crusade and remain shocked and disgusted by the events that transpired even before the first crusade theoretically began (it would take more time than anyone cares about to really discuss that). Let's just say that some of the comments provoked an emotional reaction in me.
Please, just focus on the music. That's all I meant.
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Steve, thanks for taking a few minutes to explain that.
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05-03-2009, 02:53 PM
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#22
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,166
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Hmmm ... I'm a little surprised that many (including the moderators) quite rightly consider Post 11 in this thread to be offensive and have removed it, but not Post 13.
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05-03-2009, 03:16 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas
Hmmm ... I'm a little surprised that many (including the moderators) quite rightly consider Post 11 in this thread to be offensive and have removed it, but not Post 13.
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I'd have to agree with you, a minority is a minority, and a slur is a slur, all equal IMO.
__________________
Since it looks like everyone else is doing it ;) :) :P :
AMD Phenom X4 9500 @ 2.2ghz, Gigabyte MA770-DS3, 4 x 1gb Corsair DDR2-800 CAS4(running CAS5 because raising DIMM voltage beyond JEDEC specs is teh suck), Samsung Spinpoint F1, M-Audio Audiophile 192, ATI Radeon 3400 GPU, and a beautiful Antec Earthwatts 430w PSU... and of course... the latest, greatest version of Reaper with a non-commercial license.
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05-03-2009, 03:16 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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I think he's missing the point in dismissing Schoenberg's perspective of harmony. Schoenberg's use of dissonance, while ignoring the European antecedents of the nomenclature, does not mean the sound of the result is the only outcome of that perspective.
/ fuh fuh fuh fuh
// not kidding, actually
/// IMO probably all "theory" will be wrong as long as European terminology is referenced
//// heretic
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05-03-2009, 11:26 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas
Hmmm ... I'm a little surprised that many (including the moderators) quite rightly consider Post 11 in this thread to be offensive and have removed it, but not Post 13.
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lol i never knew what poof meant till now
yeah, i guess little known but slur
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05-03-2009, 11:54 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,173
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I'm sorry, I don't get it, but I don't think I really want to either.....
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05-04-2009, 08:44 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Eesti
Posts: 2,716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurf
I'm sorry, I don't get it, but I don't think I really want to either.....
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In these situations Google and/or Wikipedia help me every time
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05-04-2009, 11:39 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbon
In these situations Google and/or Wikipedia help me every time
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/ is a superior resource in these situations, I use google and wikipedia for more technical or academic queries....
__________________
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AMD Phenom X4 9500 @ 2.2ghz, Gigabyte MA770-DS3, 4 x 1gb Corsair DDR2-800 CAS4(running CAS5 because raising DIMM voltage beyond JEDEC specs is teh suck), Samsung Spinpoint F1, M-Audio Audiophile 192, ATI Radeon 3400 GPU, and a beautiful Antec Earthwatts 430w PSU... and of course... the latest, greatest version of Reaper with a non-commercial license.
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05-04-2009, 01:01 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,019
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Uh, I hate to ask, but would anyone familiar care to offer a synopsis?
I am very appreciative to have a link to good info, but just starting out, it seems really dense as well as fairly abstract and academic. Which is not a criticism, but as it stands it probably *is* something that's going to keep me from clicking through all the pages, especially since it seems to be fairly badly laid out (that *is* a criticism).
It would be helpful to hear how it's helped with music-making, or what some of the key differences are from other theories or methods of presentation.
In any case, thanks for sharing.
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05-04-2009, 01:13 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yep
Uh, I hate to ask, but would anyone familiar care to offer a synopsis?
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Play random notes until you find something that sounds good.
__________________
Since it looks like everyone else is doing it ;) :) :P :
AMD Phenom X4 9500 @ 2.2ghz, Gigabyte MA770-DS3, 4 x 1gb Corsair DDR2-800 CAS4(running CAS5 because raising DIMM voltage beyond JEDEC specs is teh suck), Samsung Spinpoint F1, M-Audio Audiophile 192, ATI Radeon 3400 GPU, and a beautiful Antec Earthwatts 430w PSU... and of course... the latest, greatest version of Reaper with a non-commercial license.
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05-04-2009, 01:56 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,580
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Quote:
but just starting out, it seems really dense as well as fairly abstract and academic.
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By "just starting out," do you mean in studying theory or in "I've just gone to the site, now what?"
If the former, I think you need to have a relatively good grasp of traditional harmonic theory. If the latter, then I'd suggest you look around and see if anything interests you.
Right now, the things that fascinate me the most on these pages are the topics on Symmetry and Set Theory.
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05-06-2009, 09:18 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Devin
Play random notes until you find something that sounds good.
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Well said.
Interestingly in music, random is always(?) random variability within various structures and frameworks.
I've found applying and freely experimenting within newly learned frameworks and structures very creatively stimulating.
Its as though constraining the scenario actually encourages creativity and coherent expression.
Examples of this has been learning and applying different modes, scales, rhythms and time signatures. So that learning and applying theory can be a real creative catalyst.
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05-06-2009, 10:53 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Devin
Yeah, until someone confirms that it's not Jewish folk music, then I'm not clicking on that link......
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That's funny! Beware of clicking on my link as it WILL lead you to Jewish folk music :-)
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05-06-2009, 11:45 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: frankonia
Posts: 1,996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soul&folk
That's funny! Beware of clicking on my link as it WILL lead you to Jewish folk music :-)
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So you can confirm, that *that* link leads to something very kabbalistic ?!?
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Don't read this sentence to it's end, please.
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05-06-2009, 11:58 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stupeT
So you can confirm, that *that* link leads to something very kabbalistic ?!?
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Nah, not kabbalistic at all. Most of what is called kabbalistic in today's pop culture is just make believe stuff. The real kabbala is studied by very few and not broadcast. It's a very deep and private thing and way beyond my level of scholarship. My humble attempt at music is mostly taking psalms in the original Hebrew and other liturgy and expressing it in some of the genres that I grew up listening to. It's mostly folk (with a lot of minor notes) and there's some blues and pop in there too. More blues and some rock on the way as well. If only there was more time in the day...
Last edited by soul&folk; 05-06-2009 at 12:00 PM.
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