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Old 02-18-2017, 01:52 AM   #1
strachupl
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Default Tempo and playrate envelopes editing stutter and glitches and questions

Hello again.
When editing tempo (grid warping?) and playrate (playspeed?) envelopes there are some stutter glitches especially when playing midi which makes editing midi with some tempo speed changes onerous and frustrating. Video shows more.
Is this a feature? Since it is so obvious and long time present bug. This let me think if anyone even using these envelopes.


also here example with melody


also here compare tempo envelopes between FL Studio and Reaper


I have questions:
1. Is reaper playrate suppose to work like tempo automation in FL Studio and other DAWs? (affecting playspeed).
2. If yes so is Tempo envelope in Reaper unique in term of warping grid?
3. If playrate envelope is not suppose to be speed envelope could tempo envelope have option to work as playspeed instead of warping grid?
4. Wouldnt it be more logic for envelopes points to affect things to the left than right?:



To find out why behavior in FL is more comfortable you must try out for your own and compare. When you make new point you would rather want to adjust its shape before and in same place move up or down than adjusting point and finding point before to change shape.
5. Why cant we select multiple envelopes and edit them simultaneously without using pooled automation items? Why cant we edit 2 envelopes simultaneously on multiple envelopes on diffrent tracks?
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Old 02-19-2017, 10:34 AM   #2
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Anyone to comment?
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:13 AM   #3
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Refreshing thread.
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Old 02-25-2017, 02:34 AM   #4
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bump.
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Old 02-26-2017, 06:57 AM   #5
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:23 AM   #6
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Bump again...
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Old 06-26-2017, 03:31 PM   #7
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:24 AM   #8
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Sorry you are all alone here - dont think we are ignoring you, just nobody else is having issues with this apparently.

Hopefully some kind clever soul will respond better than I have soon.
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:29 AM   #9
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Playrate is not related to tempo envelope. Tempo envelope affects the grid (just as it does in any other linear sequencer/DAW - this is your BPM and time signature area), while playrate affects the playback speed of the whole project (which incurs a LOT of timestretching, which is why you might be getting glitches and stutters, since this is done on ALL audio items in the project - the more the playrate is changed, there's more timestretching, and consequently higher CPU load). If you want to influence tempo in your project, you should not use the playrate envelope.

So, to answer your questions:

1. No, playrate is not supposed to do tempo automations.
2. No, it is not unique, other DAWs do this to the grid as well. FLS is a "special flower" in this case since it doesn't even have proper time signature support for its playlist, as of yet (though it's in the works).
3. No. That's not its purpose, as explained above.
4. Sorry I'm not following you here. If this is just about the curve formula between two envelope points, well, that's just how it is.
5. That's just how Reaper is designed, for better or for worse.

Last edited by EvilDragon; 06-27-2017 at 02:36 AM.
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:09 AM   #10
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As usual lot of text in the answer and most of it is not the answer at all. To avoid it I will ask one by one. First. Do you hear glitches when editing tempo envelope when playing midi (for example piano vst like on my video)?
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:34 AM   #11
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Well, I answered to your questions in order.

As for your first video, yes, that is normal behaviour in Reaper if you have this option DISABLED:

Preferences->Audio->Seeking->[ ] Playback position follows project timebase (time or beats) when changing tempo.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:13 AM   #12
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I have enabled/disabled* and tried diffrent timbases and still the same glitches. Can someone record video when editing tempo envelope with playing midi without glitches to prove it is possible?

Last edited by strachupl; 06-29-2017 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:18 AM   #13
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Did you read the post above? Enable the option I mentioned if it's disabled (and it likely is, because I can verify your issue with it disabled, and verify it's gone when it's enabled).

Last edited by EvilDragon; 06-29-2017 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:20 AM   #14
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sorry I was about to write disabled, anyway on or off the same result.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:30 AM   #15
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Weird. Certainly sorts the issue out over here. Proof (watch the master VU meter):


Last edited by EvilDragon; 06-29-2017 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:37 AM   #16
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X so mayby I have some other settings wrong. I do not know been everywhere checking everything.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:38 AM   #17
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Still all fine here with that option enabled! Doesn't matter where the edit or playback cursor is. (And in the GIF showed I'm always moving a tempo env point that is BEHIND the play cursor!)

And yes, as you can see, that's a MIDI item, so it's playing a VST instrument.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strachupl View Post
X so mayby I have some other settings wrong. I do not know been everywhere checking everything.
Don't think so. This is purely a seeking issue, so that option ought to fix it.

Try with a fresh portable install, perhaps?
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:49 AM   #19
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I use portable and installed portable 5.40 now fresh install and same on default all settings, tried to ON/OFF this seek option and same still.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:55 AM   #20
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Beats me, then. It doesn't happen over here with the option enabled as above mentioned. Sorry.
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:15 AM   #21
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ok thanks for help and your time.
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:22 AM   #22
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Actually, I've just tried a fresh portable and I can see the same thing you are: glitches regardless of the option.

It looks like there's SOMETHING in my project template that rectifies the behavior and I'm trying to find out what it is.
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:54 AM   #23
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OK! I think I found it!

Make sure your MIDI tracks are ARMED for recording! Then with that option enabled you will get no glitches.
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Actually, I've just tried a fresh portable and I can see the same thing you are: glitches regardless of the option.

It looks like there's SOMETHING in my project template that rectifies the behavior and I'm trying to find out what it is.

I am testing too and have conclusion. It depends on vst, most of them making glitches (reasynth too) and for example AAS String Studio 1 no.

In my opinion:
This should be fixed as I think no other program have these problems. How can someone making film music in Reaper with such problems? This aint feature as people tring to tell me in other threads calling me indirectly a lier and that my videos and gif are cheats. Really Reaper should be testing more there are things like this in many areas but worst is workflow in program. Working with tempo envelope gives feel like UGHY why i havent even this fool fruity loops for this. The same in piano roll, vertical snap strenght cant be adjusted and default strenght is not good, created notes just jumping crazy and not flowing like in even stupid fruity loops! In piano roll when snap to scale is active you can still hear notes out of scale when drawing notes or moving.
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
OK! I think I found it!

Make sure your MIDI tracks are ARMED for recording! Then with that option enabled you will get no glitches.
No, I checked addictive piano with this seek option 1/0 and recarm track 1/0 still shi..., reasynth same.
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:19 PM   #26
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I tried a bunch of instruments here: Pianoteq, Diva, Addictive Drums... it's consistent. Rec arming the track and having that option enabled and everything's cool.

I can even verify it with just a MIDI monitor loaded on the track and not a VSTi.

Last edited by EvilDragon; 06-29-2017 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I tried a bunch of instruments here: Pianoteq, Diva, Addictive Drums... it's consistent. Rec arming the track and having that option enabled and everything's cool.

I can even verify it with just a MIDI monitor loaded on the track and not a VSTi.
I will do some tests in weekend too to find out how it all works but... Why would it be to avoid glitches to rec arm tracks? It doesnt make sense to me. I think it is not normal or we need some claryfing from developers why it is like it is and is it normal or bug.
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:50 PM   #28
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In the meantime, here you go with my project template which doesn't seem to exhibit the glitches with that seeking option enabled. May it be of great use to you.
Attached Files
File Type: rpp Start.RPP (2.9 KB, 146 views)
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