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Old 09-27-2014, 03:51 PM   #41
Lawrence
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To clarify, most of those guys I talked about have studios at home or in a commercial space somewhere but for the most part, the freelancers appear to work in large(r) studios that they don't own... here and abroad.

Freelancer engineers use PT at least partly because that's what's in all the big studios already .. for sure... and that's where they work on the tracking side mostly, in large studios.

If you only ever work in your own studio... it kinda doesn't matter, and nobody cares... unless someone insists that their archive be in the PT format. If you show up at a big room to engineer a session and the owner tells you ... "No... you cannot install Python or anything else on my system.", you probably lose some of your Reaper functionality, your cool scripts that speed things up for you ... or if their hardware doesn't work properly with it right away (time is money) or (insert whatever else here, like for some unknown reason that particular system / hardware config doesn't work with it as smoothly as your own).

How much of your workflow is related to Python or similar? 40%? 50%? Will video even work without installing something on the other system that you may not even have permission to install? MP3?

The competition thing is kinda silly. When the clock is burning $5-10 every minute, continuity kinda matters. For the rest of us, we use whatever we want.

Last edited by Lawrence; 09-27-2014 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 09-27-2014, 04:00 PM   #42
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I spent quite a bit of time in Nashville one summer a few years ago. I absolutely do not support what whiteaxxxe is claiming. It wasn't my experience at all.

By the way, the mayor of Nashville is a democrat. According to Wikipedia, most of the council is too.

If you have an axxxe to grind about US politics, I suggest that you head for the Lounge.
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Old 09-27-2014, 04:08 PM   #43
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Hypothetical: You show up at Major Studio B to engineer a scoring session with an orchestra. Your chest is stuck out proudly because you have the greatest software on the planet on your USB stick, Reaper. You can't wait to blow everyone away with it's coolness.

Ok, the orchestra is like $3k an hour or $5k a day or whatever and the room is like $1k a day. Cool. You are the freelance dude, you are the man calling the shots.

So ... you have a personal emergency (kid broke his leg, whatever) in the middle of the 8 hour session and have to leave and NOBODY there knows how to operate Reaper (or S1, or Cubase, or whatever) ... but the last 3 1/2 hours of tracks and edits are in Reaper. With PT they can keep going because the staff engineer or any number of on-call replacement engineers can fill in.

Do you really think they'll hire you again?

Moral: There are (at least) two different worlds and one has little to do with the other. One is the personal studio world where people argue over software preferences, the other is the larger commercial world where things are often quite different... where money is being burned.

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Old 09-27-2014, 09:37 PM   #44
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LLLLLLLLL Lawrence........

I came from Pro tools
I picked up on Reaper without a hiccup.p.p.p.p.p

I think you are over drama dramatisinggggg...g

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Old 09-28-2014, 12:28 AM   #45
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I used the very first ProTools system in Nashville.
Neal Merrick was the owner & we still correspond occasionally - he is now out of Nashville and recording native american music pretty much as a hobby.

Fast forward to the nineties and I worked as a musician in a very nice PTHD studio.

The one thing that shone through on both occasions was how easy it was to edit audio down at macro level.

That is something that Reaper is not great at. There are other things.

And systems like SADIE stand head and shoulders above the rest in the areas where they excell....

My point is that NEITHER PTHD nor Reaper is the One-daw-to-rule-them-all and never will be.
Those few in this thread who have ranted about how one or the other is the tops need to calm down and actually think about what they are posting.

The human who uses the tools is always going to be the biggest factor involved, Get over it.

I currently use 3 different daws (none of the PT) for different tasks.
They all work.

Lets go make some music.....
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Old 09-28-2014, 03:41 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Hypothetical: You show up at Major Studio B to engineer a scoring session with an orchestra. Your chest is stuck out proudly because you have the greatest software on the planet on your USB stick, Reaper. You can't wait to blow everyone away with it's coolness.

Ok, the orchestra is like $3k an hour or $5k a day or whatever and the room is like $1k a day. Cool. You are the freelance dude, you are the man calling the shots.

So ... you have a personal emergency (kid broke his leg, whatever) in the middle of the 8 hour session and have to leave and NOBODY there knows how to operate Reaper (or S1, or Cubase, or whatever) ... but the last 3 1/2 hours of tracks and edits are in Reaper. With PT they can keep going because the staff engineer or any number of on-call replacement engineers can fill in.

Do you really think they'll hire you again?

Moral: There are (at least) two different worlds and one has little to do with the other. One is the personal studio world where people argue over software preferences, the other is the larger commercial world where things are often quite different... where money is being burned.
Really man? O.o

That's.....come on, that's reaching there :P

You mentioned "commercial world", "3k an hour orchestra" and "Reaper on a USB stick" all in one scenario.

Not happening.

Kinda long, an unlikely, but a long way around the barn on that one. Indeed, there's reasons for uniformity at the higher tiers of audio production, which is the point. I getcha.
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Old 09-28-2014, 04:20 AM   #47
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ivansc the phrase that a Daw is just a tool and it is the personn behind the tool that matters is not correct

There are many different hammers in the building industry and many different saws or drills, yes there all the same and all do that same thing,

some hammers havent got the right balance or are made from crap mixed metal and just will not do the job as one using a better hammer.

The fact in this world there is such a thing as better it is just a fact of life we all must face up to that

any two of the same things made by different people or different companys you will all ways get a bad make or a better make,

we need to get this idea out of our minds, the statement that its the person behind the tool dosent matter what make it is in our case dosent matter what daw it is it will all come out the same if you work hard this statement is not true.

to the untrained ear every thing sounds the same, or to some one with out experience every hammer is the same and it all does the same thing, some hammers do and work better than others, and using Daws we will have to say the same some Daws do work better and do a better job than others and that will be untill you go to the grave, some things will allways be made better.

You always find in life the best builders go for the best tools intact you want even be allowed to step foot on some building firms unless you use a certain quality made tool, but to the untrained man or woman a hammer is just a hammer.

experience will always bring better results in life, and this includes making or creating things weather it be buildings or software or in our case Daws.

There are levels of quality that experience people want to here in music and if you are not experienced you just want know what to look for or what im talking about.

all in all nothing is made the same, we as humans are always trying to better our self we always try to do some thing better we are always trying to creat things better and it includes software too

know two Daws are the same and you will always get a top or better Daw if you dont believe this then you boarder on the lines of ignorance.

The better you become at creating music you begin to look for better equipment, if you are satisfied with what you do and dont intend to move to greater hights then you can get away with the basic things and understanding it just want matter to you, a Daw is just a Daw.

But believe me the ones who want more out of music and gain greater experience developing there ears and skill levels, and quality, they begin to move away from the basic things that they used to use and search for better things to aid them in there music

the Daw that we just can get by with to day want do when we start to excel.

When skill levels rise the need for a Daw will be needed.
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Old 09-28-2014, 05:25 AM   #48
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Really man? O.o

That's.....come on, that's reaching there :P

You mentioned "commercial world", "3k an hour orchestra" and "Reaper on a USB stick" all in one scenario.

Not happening.

Kinda long, an unlikely, but a long way around the barn on that one. Indeed, there's reasons for uniformity at the higher tiers of audio production, which is the point. I getcha.

Not on a USB stick, but it does happen. The use of REAPER to create a tempo-map after the recording saved Abbey Road £40k for one orchestral project. The musicians were setting up, tempo files were missing. It was the tool that did the job, got them out of a hole and allowed them to continue recording.


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Old 09-28-2014, 06:53 AM   #49
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The one thing that shone through on both occasions was how easy it was to edit audio down at macro level.
This really truly jumped right out of the box for you.
It's all right under the surface with Reaper when you configure your preferences but absolutely not right out of the box. But then when you start dialing Reaper up you find features beyond what Protools had for editing. But this is probably the thing that made me drag my feet in switching over to Reaper.


All the comments about Protools being designed for the 'pro industry' and how it just doesn't make sense for project studios and that's why it has the feature set and really expensive hardware...

LOL!

Protools became the industry leader because it was the first really hardcore product to digitally produce music with. In the days before modern computers that could do this natively when they needed to design processing hardware. They pulled it off with bells on and it became the industry leader. It was expensive because the hardware was expensive. It was also a worthwhile investment for smaller studios because it let you get THAT much more work done and very reliably.

Now we have fast computers, firewire and thunderbolt ports and SSD's. And newer apps like Reaper that really deliver. There are quite simply other options now and the advance of technology has made them magnitudes cheaper to buy.


Big studios that were already invested into the system and had far more hardware than the likes of me still have a use for PT. And relearning workflow in a big operation isn't trivial even when new features are available. That's no bs. Change can be a big project in a large operation. The dramatic example above from Lawrence is maybe exaggerated but no bs.

But to suggest that the "pros" work in a different universe where Protools is still the best DAW money can buy is just silly. There were big places still using analog tape when PT was well established for the same reasons. And now there are still places using PT when we have new technology becoming well established.

PT was in fact making a move to catch up too with v9 and core audio support (ie. firewire interfaces). They did bomb on this and then they did an about face, dropped it (as the main big thing) and decided to stay with the old school expensive hardware since that was so well established. That of course hit me hard. My choice became stay with PT and repurchase $10k worth of gear or move on to new alternatives. That's where my rants come from and I don't think it's unreasonable from that perspective. How about the upgrade price jumping from $350 for v8 to v9 to $1400 for v10 (and they literally pulled v9 off store shelves and discontinued it)! In the past when new upgrade versions came out, the last upgrade version would A. still be sold and B. the price would drop $100.

And then the sound comments... Protools sounded better when it was a 48 bit mix engine and everyone else was 32 bit. That was years ago now. If you think it will do something extra sonically for you now, you will be very disappointed in your research skills!
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Old 09-28-2014, 06:58 AM   #50
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Indeed, there's reasons for uniformity at the higher tiers of audio production, which is the point.
Exactly. It's not about the daw, it's about the process.

People are so caught up on feature wars they ignore the process. The process in some of those cases is a months long process across multiple studios, not a few guys making a song at home. Uniformity is part of the process.

It's really not about if PT is "better".

The discussion (the logic of it) resolves to ...

"Ok, Reaper is way better than PT and anyone who's actually used it or tried it should know that so all of the people still using PT in those studios are just stupid, marketing sheep, or holding onto it to justify their investment. There can't be any other reason."

Then we make arguments based on mostly insignificant sums of money, $60 vs. $2000 or whatever, when those guys are raking in many, many, many thousands of dollars in income, as if $1900 of expense will make or break a pro engineers career... when they own $3000 hardware EQ's and $3000 mics.

The hypothetical was a silly and roundabout way to illuminate those difference that we so often ignore, comparing apples to oranges.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If I opened up a largish room - for hire - it would have PT in it, not because I think it's "better" but because that's what most freelance audio engineers - the guys hiring my room for their clients, the people paying my bills? - want to mostly see and use there. The point is to make money, not to win an Internet debate about software.

At home, or in my personal B room, I'd install and use what I prefer... which is not PT.

So... ok, Reaper is a better product than PT. We can agree on that. How much money did you make this year using Reaper? Now compare that to the 200k+ some of those guys made using PT and tell me who's - business - is better off financially. How many people here are even - full time - audio engineers, not having any other job at all? Those guys are.

It's a business, not a hobby argument over who has the coolest car. If I'm running a business I'd use GarageBand if that's what would put the most money in my pocket.

Reaper, S1, Cubase, etc, etc, all have really strong positions in the project and home studio markets, they're all great products. But anyone expecting the universe to do a sudden 180 and have any one of those as the goto in most largish commercial studios and sound stages all over the world like PT is now is delusional... not gonna happen anytime soon, if ever.

Last edited by Lawrence; 09-28-2014 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 09-28-2014, 07:30 AM   #51
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What a silly and circular argument this is!

Firstly, who gets an orchestra for $5k a day? Wow! If there're five people in it, maybe, but then it ain't gonna be much of an orchestra!

I own a commericial studio. This month, we shall have three Reaper sessions and one PT session. Last month, we had several Radar sessions. November is all Radar and PT, with a Reaper mix. December sees some Logic sessions and other stuff, where I don't know yet what they want.

The days of having one DAW and sticking to that one DAW are over! Repeat, OVER!

Studios and engineers are going to have what the customer wants, if they want to stay in business! If the customer says Garage Band, then Garage Band it is!

ALSO

The days of the audio-only studio are rapidly coming to a close. Gear up for multimedia and 4K or die!
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Old 09-28-2014, 07:50 AM   #52
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What a silly and circular argument this is!
It is.

It only ever starts because someone always feels the need to "prove" something is "better" than something else, instead of just making music and money and not caring what anyone else uses. The reality is, many people actually - like and prefer - using PT over anything else. (the horror )

PT is in way more professional (money making) studios than Reaper. To those highly annoyed by that fact, get over it already... or load up the Jehovah Witness vans and start converting them.

Let's all remember where this thread started... the catalyst for this current iteration of "PT 'aint got shit on us, it sucks, we rock" ...

Quote:
Dear Avid, please stop with your business.

Reaper is a DAW, Protools is a joke.
Generally speaking and certainly not involving the majority here, Reaper users are probably the single most insecure group of loyal users of a workstation I've ever come across. 8 years in and many are still continually trying to prove it's "worthy of respect", when everyone who actually matters (it's customers) knows it's worthy.

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Old 09-28-2014, 08:03 AM   #53
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I really think it was more of a comment like "Look how far things have come now! You used to need this expensive hardware system (Protools) for top of the line production work but look at what you can do now with Reaper and a modern computer!!

Lots of very high quality innovative products become obsolete with new technology.

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Old 09-28-2014, 08:09 AM   #54
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You used to need this expensive hardware system (Protools) for top of the line production work but look at what you can do now with Reaper and a modern computer!!
Yeah, that wasn't possible at all before Reaper and 2006, the great daw revolution that changed the world, everybody knows that.

Lol. Project studios like mine were doing that long before 2006.

I think we should just firebomb AVID HQ and be done with it.

Anyway, I like Reaper, and Studio One, I'm a big fan and supporter of both... but I try to live in the real world where neither is the cats pajamas for the entire world and there are no other really, really great products, only those two, because... well... I like them and I only use the literal best of anything.

Love my Jeep Cherokee. Best SUV ever. Everything else sucks, they should just stop trying.

P.S. Reaper quite literally wipes Studio One's ass with the range of it's actions. Easily. No contest at all. See how easy that is? Does that diminish me, make me less cool or loyal, by stating the clearly obvious?

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Old 09-28-2014, 08:17 AM   #55
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Lol. Project studios like mine were doing that long before 2006.
^This. 1998 for me. Processing power etc. made the big difference in the Mid-2000s but I was happily doing as many tracks as I needed with Logic way back in the day. "As many tracks as I need" exploded with processing power IMHO, I never needed 72 tracks until I had them which carries it's own irony because more options and power increased the time spent mucking with them. Then at some point, everyone with an internet connection and a soundcard became international recording experts overnight
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:25 AM   #56
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^This. 1998 for me. Processing power etc. made the big difference in the Mid-2000s but I was happily doing as many tracks as I needed with Logic way back in the day. "As many tracks as I need" exploded with processing power IMHO, I never needed 72 tracks until I had them which carries it's own irony because as options and power increased the time spent mucking with them. Then at some point, everyone with an internet connection and a soundcard became international recording experts.
The PT hardware advantage thing was mostly nonsense even then. All you really needed was a console, which PTHD is, a console. Any good DAW, a fast hard drive, and any good console. Done.

And yes, digital consoles have audio plugins too... and work very easily with hardware inserts.

PT's singular design advantage over that config was hardware based virtual instruments... which no consoles really do.

That's why (way back then) I choose Cubase and a d8b instead of PTHD. It was just as pricey, and yes, it did (and still does) a lot of stuff way more easily than any daw by itself outside of hardware PT.

But yeah, if you wanted a complete "studio in a box" with no other hardware, no mixer, and a good level of DSP, PT was one of the few choices for that.

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Old 09-28-2014, 08:38 AM   #57
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Yeah, that wasn't possible at all before Reaper and 2006, the great daw revolution that changed the world, everybody knows that.
That comment was aimed more at 1996.

By 2006 all kinds of things were happening.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:42 AM   #58
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People made digital consoles before 1996.

I know this because I actually owned one which came out in 1995, the Yamaha ProMix 01. Not only did I use a digital console, I had on screen control over it via the SAW Studio guy's software, SAMM.

And of course, there was a large line of pro digital consoles for sale already... that one was just more affordable. Nobody with money to spend was sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for the Intel I7 chip.

Anyway, it's all silly. From what I gather, ReaInsert has been kinda broken until maybe very recently and you surely 'aint gonna completely replace PTHD (for those users) without a completely reliable hardware insert system. They use a lot of hardware in post.

Off to watch the Lions. Good day all.

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Old 09-28-2014, 08:44 AM   #59
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The PT hardware advantage thing was mostly nonsense even then. All you really needed was a console, which PTHD is, a console. Any good DAW, a fast hard drive, and any good console. Done.
No way. It became cheaper to put together a PT system than the analog equivalent. Good large format consoles are expensive. Having the virtual equivalent was the point. Kind of why things went the direction they did!

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But yeah, if you wanted a complete "studio in a box" with no other hardware, no mixer, and a good level of DSP, PT was one of the few choices for that.
Just saw your edit. That's what I was getting at. No more no less.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:49 AM   #60
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ivansc the phrase that a Daw is just a tool and it is the personn behind the tool that matters is not correct
Blah blah
the Daw that we just can get by with to day want do when we start to excel.

When skill levels rise the need for a Daw will be needed.

The point is not that the professsional wont choose to use the best tools he can get, more that ANY tools in the hands of debutantes and amateurs are useless compared to what a pro will achieve with the same tool.
Your comments on the building trades leave me wondering what country you live in where the main contractor can specify what tools a tradesman will have.
Sure if the contractor provides them, but there are not many places like that.
My patron in Corsica employed us and we all got Hitachi tools provided by him. End of.
But when I was working on my own account I used what I had/preferred/chose to afford.

I'm done here - The Byre said it all.
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:32 AM   #61
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^This. 1998 for me.
Heh heh, 1991 here.
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Old 09-28-2014, 04:02 PM   #62
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Just saw your edit. That's what I was getting at. No more no less.
For sure Serr, agree. There were only like 2 or 3 full in the box computer solutions back then, with built in DSP and all that.

It's difficult to convey sometimes, but those things are really nothing more than PCB boards on PCI cards, not really any different from the PCB's in digital consoles. The only difference is that the I/O hardware isn't already attached, it's connected externally. PTHD is essentially a modular digital console, the hardware. ASIO soundcards even are also quite literally digital hardware mixers.

I recall when I took the cover off of my d8b to replace a fader pack. There very little in there, just a few PCB boards really. If you take away the logic boards for say, controlling the faders, everything in there (minus the I/O on the back) could probably fit on a couple of PCI cards.

^^^ To clarify the above ^^^: The d8b actually literally was a PC ... a rack mount PC... it just used a custom OS and a big data cable to connect to the mixer surface hardware. It maybe would not have been a huge leap to build hard disk recording and editing directly into the same system... if somebody had wanted to... and not even need a Win or Mac system at all.

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Old 10-01-2014, 08:10 AM   #63
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Holy hell. What a thread....

Anyhow, I would like to make a silly suggestion for the forum after reading a certain user's posts that are in this thread:

Please create a spelling/grammar test before allowing someone to post anything on the forum. This could be done when registering. That's my grand idea to solve pointless debates from stupid people. :P

(Or at least BAN anyone that uses the words, "the best in the world" or "pro tools is the industry standard.")

But all joking aside, here is my theory on why REAPER may be immediately shunned by some at first mention:
THE NAME! Yes, a product's name is "almost" everything. Almost.... Pro Tools is just a killer name for a DAW in my opinion, and even though REAPER is a technical acronym, it is, IMO, just silly to name your product REAPER because all sorts of negative connotations come to mind when hearing this.

The marketing majors out there will probably get the importance of my piece here, and maybe business majors such as myself will too, but the name of a product can make or break you. In this case, I think it has created an uphill battle in the DAW business for it's users and developers.

First impressions are, again, "almost" everything. Sometimes they ARE everything because some dismiss it after a single thought...

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Old 10-01-2014, 08:12 AM   #64
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+1 FTW
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:45 AM   #65
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Holy hell. What a thread....

Anyhow, I would like to make a silly suggestion for the forum after reading a certain user's posts that are in this thread:

Please create a spelling/grammar test before allowing someone to post anything on the forum. This could be done when registering. That's my grand idea to solve pointless debates from stupid people. :P

(Or at least BAN anyone that uses the words, "the best in the world" or "pro tools is the industry standard.")

But all joking aside, here is my theory on why REAPER may be immediately shunned by some at first mention:
THE NAME! Yes, a product's name is "almost" everything. Almost.... Pro Tools is just a killer name for a DAW in my opinion, and even though REAPER is a technical acronym, it is, IMO, just silly to name your product REAPER because all sorts of negative connotations come to mind when hearing this.

The marketing majors out there will probably get the importance of my piece here, and maybe business majors such as myself will too, but the name of a product can make or break you. In this case, I think it has created an uphill battle in the DAW business for it's users and developers.

First impressions are, again, "almost" everything. Sometimes they ARE everything because some dismiss it after a single thought...

Negative connotations? how do you think your breakfast and bread, etc arrive on your plate?

Or are you putting some made-up fairytail above the actual process? I think REAPER is a very good name for audio tracking and mixing software -you definitely reap what you sow.

Just because reaping and threshing are performed by a combined machine now and is so far removed from your sanitised consumer lifestyle doesn't mean it isn't a valid and important part of the food chain. Also you're listening to someone who learned to reap with a scythe as a youth, and I'm sick of bloody ignorant urbanites thinking the only thing that ever used one is an anthropomorphic personification. Superstitious twaddle!


Reaper and proud REAPER user.


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Old 10-01-2014, 09:02 AM   #66
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One comment one of those guys who use PT full time made...

Quote:
"I'm very successful, I don't have any real issues, although all software and tech causes occasional issues of course. What would be the reason for me to throw away everything I've learned and configured to learn something completely new? Will I make more money? If not, what is the incentive exactly?"
His point was that when entire industries shift, it's often because what they're shifting to is worth the trouble for all of them.

That's the real roadblock to "ubiquitous". PT is kinda ubiquitous and to convince all those people to switch needs more than just "we're subjectively much better in lots of ways". If it was really that easy Nuendo & Samp & similar would have made major inroads already.

At some point we have to get over it. The best audio engineers (generally speaking, the most talented guys making the best sounding records and the most money) are by and large mostly using PT. So what? I'm much more concerned with how in the heck to get as good as them at the trade than I am with getting them to switch to use what I like using.

Even if they did use Reaper or Studio One my work would still - kinda suck - compared to theirs so... what would that accomplish for me? Nothing.

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Old 10-01-2014, 10:30 AM   #67
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Negative connotations? how do you think your breakfast and bread, etc arrive on your plate?

Or are you putting some made-up fairytail above the actual process? I think REAPER is a very good name for audio tracking and mixing software -you definitely reap what you sow.

Just because reaping and threshing are performed by a combined machine now and is so far removed from your sanitised consumer lifestyle doesn't mean it isn't a valid and important part of the food chain. Also you're listening to someone who learned to reap with a scythe as a youth, and I'm sick of bloody ignorant urbanites thinking the only thing that ever used one is an anthropomorphic personification. Superstitious twaddle!


Reaper and proud REAPER user.


>
For the sanitized and bloody ignorant Urbanites.....
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:09 AM   #68
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So,

Today i had to add SFX and music to a movie.

I had no experience with Reaper in this regard, and, cause of a deadly deadline, i openend Protools 11, to do the job. ( i am very familiar with Protools, don't wanted to go out of my comfortzone).

So i imported the movie in Protools and then wanted to imported music and SFX:

Protools Error: Out of memory.

WTF: I run Protools 11 (64bit based and i have 16 gigs of RAM in my macbook), this can't be true !
The movie is an 150 mb MP4 !!


So long Protools 11.

I opened Reaper, imported movie, imported music and SFX without any hassle.

I then began to sync SFX and music to movie in Reaper : all went smooth as butter : an unbelievable experience !

Again, another amazing experience for me in Reaper.
Who needs Protools 11 ?!
I guess no one, when you have met Reaper, and that for a fraction of the Protools price.

Dear Avid, please stop with your business.

Reaper is a DAW, Protools is a joke.

Amen.
I also have a Pro Tools and work mainly on it, I switched few weeks ago to purely curiosity to see things about reaper and learning how things works,and I like most about it that s people from reaper is not so much marketing minded.They just give pure daw to people that they can making music,without unnecessary thousund of loops and samples ,that they are useless anyway.Only things as everyone knows it is easier to work with midi in some other daws which to me is not that important because I do not do much with midi.I set some mixes and to me they sounds more solid than in pro tools,but I'm not a pro so maybe it's just my personal opinion.But do not call people for no reason Pro fools.Although the song is what important.If it is not good music,any daw would not fix things.Omg
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:11 PM   #69
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What a silly and circular argument this is!

Firstly, who gets an orchestra for $5k a day? Wow! If there're five people in it, maybe, but then it ain't gonna be much of an orchestra!

I own a commericial studio. This month, we shall have three Reaper sessions and one PT session. Last month, we had several Radar sessions. November is all Radar and PT, with a Reaper mix. December sees some Logic sessions and other stuff, where I don't know yet what they want.

The days of having one DAW and sticking to that one DAW are over! Repeat, OVER!

Studios and engineers are going to have what the customer wants, if they want to stay in business! If the customer says Garage Band, then Garage Band it is!

ALSO

The days of the audio-only studio are rapidly coming to a close. Gear up for multimedia and 4K or die!

I must agree with you here. I myself worked and owned a commercial studio that had PT - Cubase -Nuendo back in the days and when the revolution days have arrived, i'm talking about when Justin came up with Reaper as a potential full featured DAW and contender to many DAWs on the market as well with an amazing price start, things have changed since then.

Remember when we've paid Cubase for 1000$???? Or Nuendo for 2000$, Samplitude, Logic etc.. could go on and on. And then Back in the days when Waves was (just like Digidesign) where dominating because as many mentioned they were the pioneers at that time including Steinberg... ain't the case anymore. Competition has brought great things to the music industry and Look today, you can by a Wave plugin for 30$. 5 or 10 years ago wouldn't be possible. And I know that Justin (Cockos) has helped out for this change and approach. And today we have GREAT plugins development, accessibilities and competition is bringing the BEST in todays music App & Technology

Everything has its ERA time. And today even myself, closed up the commercial place, went down to the Hybrid Project business Studios and although I've used PT (although never been my favorite DAW, just a personal taste) but instead i've started with Cakewalk to Cubase and when Studio One arrived, never looked back and always been a REAPER fan since day one. And today, I got Studio One, Reaper, Ableton - Cubase, FL, PT and the list goes on (not because for the fun of having those DAWs but because I'm also a BETA tester) but as @TheByre mentioned, this way when a client comes, I can conver whatever format they bring their projects too ;-)

And I find myself playing with Reaper often when it comes to creating quick projects /ideas and Studio One my main DAW. I juggle a lot between these two. Others are there too lololol ;-)

Anyways, down the road as many mentioned here, ANY DAW can be used to create the biggest selling HIT SINGLE on the market. It's ALL about the person behind it. If on top of that you're using a DAW that you enjoy using and it offers you the features you love, daaaaaamnnnn SKY IS THE LIMIT ;-)

Peace ;-)
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Old 10-01-2014, 03:30 PM   #70
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This thread brought to mind a number of things I hadn't reflected on lately ...


The Jack of All Trades is the Master of None.

I'll be so glad when all audio software can make better use of these eight-core, monster-core computers. What a silly mess it is right now.

I'll be so glad when we all get past this horrible slump in music and finally get back to better tunes. Rap killed melody. Then the DAW gave home-recording songwriters tunnel vision and unrealistic expectations of what the software might do for them, and it killed the song.

I'll be even happier when the masses finally understand that iPads are not recording studios, phone apps are not instruments, and that music is better left to the musicians.

Just like every fad before it, from the hula hoop, to every kid buying a guitar, to everyone spending every waking hour fooling with their cells phones, a lot of what's going on in music lately is just as fad-oriented. It too shall pass.

We all need reminding that Garbage In = Garbage Out still applies.

And finally ... someday we'll all learn that all this technology we thought was going to save us, in the end, only serves to enslave us.
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Old 10-01-2014, 05:19 PM   #71
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For the sanitized and bloody ignorant Urbanites.....
Wooo! Vroom vroom!!


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Old 10-01-2014, 11:08 PM   #72
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Nate - I have an Allen Scythe I could lend you for the weekend.....
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:05 AM   #73
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I have a close friend that is a world traveled A1 that does a lot of work for HBO, heads the sound @ the Philles games here in town, worked the last Olympics and travels extensively and is well respected in his "live" world. We routinely get into "studio guys" vs "live guys" conversations (he was once a recording studio owner as well), and the attitudes and approach to their jobs that define each.

The live sound industry is much like the audio post community. They have their industry standards. Avid has their fair share of disgruntled operators just like anyone else. There are Genelecs in a majority of the trucks he works in. He is not of fan of them.

My friend will do as much research on a console before a gig as possible. He'll arrive a day early to study a board if need be, especially if one is not in the area to look at at his leisure.

The notion of honoring one DAW over another or picking sides, to him, would be akin to looking into your tool box and muttering " I really only know the hammer, I'll go with that on this job"

Greg
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Old 10-02-2014, 03:07 PM   #74
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What a silly and circular argument this is!

Firstly, who gets an orchestra for $5k a day? Wow! If there're five people in it, maybe, but then it ain't gonna be much of an orchestra!

I own a commericial studio. This month, we shall have three Reaper sessions and one PT session. Last month, we had several Radar sessions. November is all Radar and PT, with a Reaper mix. December sees some Logic sessions and other stuff, where I don't know yet what they want.

The days of having one DAW and sticking to that one DAW are over! Repeat, OVER!

Studios and engineers are going to have what the customer wants, if they want to stay in business! If the customer says Garage Band, then Garage Band it is!

ALSO

The days of the audio-only studio are rapidly coming to a close. Gear up for multimedia and 4K or die!

Yep its so silly it gets over 40 reply s of people not only talking about P T and reaper but giving great interesting history lesson giving great intel on the music industry, and giving us food for thought.

If you did not get any thing out of this or learn any thing then my guess is that it is not the Thread that is silly my guess is that it is ...... well we want go there will we.

I think these threads gives great intel and learning peoples thoughts on Daws and music,

To me a great thread and some great reading.

now then where was we arrhhhhhh yes Pro tools is the ...............
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Old 10-02-2014, 07:56 PM   #75
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..now then where was we arrhhhhhh yes Pro tools is the ...............
answer?
ants pants?
anti-Christ?
anapholactic shock?
Bee Gees?
bees knees?
beast of burden?
beezlebub?
cats whiskers?
crap workflow?
canned laughter?
d.....................
......................
......................
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:13 AM   #76
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short question: who the fuck cares???

a DAW is a tool. so use your tool AND MAKE MUSIC! and if customers are so bold to ask for a specific DAW without any knowledge but a with a lot of hearsayings and believing them, throw them out if can afford it or try to educate them or do as they wishes.

but I would prefer to stop religious bullshit discussions.

again: who the fuck of music listeners cares about the DAW used? and the music listeners are the real customers in the end.
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Old 10-03-2014, 03:35 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by morgon View Post
answer?
ants pants?
anti-Christ?
anapholactic shock?
Bee Gees?
bees knees?
beast of burden?
beezlebub?
cats whiskers?
crap workflow?
canned laughter?
d.....................
......................
......................

again the replys can be great fun lol.......:0
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Old 10-03-2014, 04:48 PM   #78
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Bee Gees?
"...and butter is better than marge..."



ns
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Old 10-13-2014, 06:57 PM   #79
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The PT hardware advantage thing was mostly nonsense even then. All you really needed was a console, which PTHD is, a console. Any good DAW, a fast hard drive, and any good console. Done...
It's mostly a sidebar at this point, but I beg to differ. The PT hardware advantage was very real, even as recently as 10~12 years ago. PTHD systems were not always more powerful than native systems, but the architecture of offloading plugins and processing to dedicated hardware was a LOT more reliable and predictable, for a long time. PT was originally and primarily a system that used the computer as a sophisticated hard-disk recorder, and used outboard hardware for the heavy-lifting.

Even when very powerful CPUs were available, and other DAWs were offering cool functionality that PT did not, PT was still preferable in a lot of commercial applications, purely for reliable track-counts and predictable latency, especially when using plugins.

It wasn't until roughly around Intel's Core2Duo era, that the processing power of native systems started to become powerful enough that a well-configured computer could be relied upon to handle a big session with a lot of live plugins. Prior to that, unless you were using something like Reason, it could be very difficult to predict what kind of latencies and track-counts you could rely on, especially when using native plugins. Everything could be running smoothly, then you get dropout or glitch that ruins your 20-track live take.

Patience for that kind of stuff runs thin very quickly, when someone is paying by the hour, and the recording has to keep stopping while you fiddle with the computer settings and change the headphone-mixes, to try and get a scenario that the computer can handle. PT HD had massive advantages in terms of stable, predictable track-counts and fx at low-latency.

ProTools earned its name for a long time. Even when it offered less features, less flexibility, and was insanely over-priced compared with native DAWs like Logic, Nuendo, Sonar, etc, it was still preferable when you had a lot of IO with a lot of plugins, and the meter running.

The market for this stuff is not TOTALLY irrational. PT was the right way to go, for a long time, in terms of high-track-count commercial projects where time is money. It became the de-facto standard for a reason.

Nowadays, it is a second-tier DAW, in my opinion, but still a competent one. Native DAW and 3rd-party plugins increasingly means that there is little or no difference in terms of what kind of record you can make, or what kind of session you can run. It's a mix of personal preference, ease-of-use, and convenience.
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:24 PM   #80
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Hypothetical: You show up at Major Studio B to engineer a scoring session with an orchestra. Your chest is stuck out proudly because you have the greatest software on the planet on your USB stick, Reaper. You can't wait to blow everyone away with it's coolness.

Ok, the orchestra is like $3k an hour or $5k a day or whatever and the room is like $1k a day. Cool. You are the freelance dude, you are the man calling the shots.

So ... you have a personal emergency (kid broke his leg, whatever) in the middle of the 8 hour session and have to leave and NOBODY there knows how to operate Reaper (or S1, or Cubase, or whatever) ... but the last 3 1/2 hours of tracks and edits are in Reaper. With PT they can keep going because the staff engineer or any number of on-call replacement engineers can fill in.

Do you really think they'll hire you again?

Moral: There are (at least) two different worlds and one has little to do with the other. One is the personal studio world where people argue over software preferences, the other is the larger commercial world where things are often quite different... where money is being burned.
what is this I don't even

Who else, in this scenario, DOES know how to operate ProTools? Is the assistant not capable of hitting record, and figuring out what the undo, mute, and faders do in REAPER?

I mean, the mics are already set up, the levels are set, the session is being recorded, the orchestra is playing... Who is supposed to be filling in for you on ProTools, and what are they supposed to be doing that requires in-depth knowledge of REAPER?

Your kid broke his leg, of course you're going to attend to it. But it's not like you're going to be holding the bone in place for the next four weeks. You'll be back tomorrow. If there is someone onsite who can operate ProTools, I don't even need to show them what to do, I can just leave. If I have to show the janitor or receptionist how to hit record and stop, I can do that in about 180 seconds.

This is like saying, I don't know, what if a co-worker suddenly has to drive your Prius and they only know how to drive a Camry...

I'm trying to imagine what kind of ProTools wizard is standing by, ready to fill in, but who has to shut everything down because clicking the record button in REAPER is beyond his abilities, because he has never seen another DAW. I mean, switching DAWs is like a hundred million times easier than figuring out another studio's console and patchbay.

Practically anything you could be asked to do in a new studio is more difficult than figuring out how to track a miked-up session in a new DAW. Everything from figuring out how the snakes are run, to what the patchbay labels mean, to where the cables are stored, to which mics are fiddly, to which cables and console channels are iffy... there is like zero chance of losing a session in the scenario you describe.

I've been in those scenarios multiple times (not specifically that my kid broke his leg, but thankfully that doesn't happen that very often). Even with a reel-to-reel tape deck and analog console, Someone can still understand what the play, record, and rewind buttons do.
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