Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Bug Reports

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-25-2015, 08:57 AM   #1
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default R4.78 creates CCs when Gluing...! [FIXED!]

Hi my friends,

I've had this happen more than a few time. When gluing midi items, unwanted CC events are being created.

I don't know what the formula is for making this happen, but it's happened quite a few times in the past. It seems to be tacking them on in the empty space at the end of the midi tracks.

The CCs it's adding are to any CC lanes I have in the project. In this case it was CC1, CC7, and CC11.



Heh heh, it always happens when I'm in a hurry so I haven't researched yet.

Has this happened to any one else?

Edit: Here is a Project RPP file showing the Expression 11 that was added when gluing.

http://stash-new.reaper.fm/24394/zz%...Gluing%201.RPP

Edit #2: I found the project file that I glued to get this problem. You can see the white marks where the unwanted CCs were created. I don't have a clue what these marks mean.

http://stash-new.reaper.fm/24402/zz%...Gluing%201.RPP

Last edited by juliansader; 01-12-2021 at 09:04 AM.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2015, 09:27 AM   #2
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
Default

Hi Tod,

Personally I can't say that I've seen this yet but I don't use glue on MIDI items very often.

Probably best if you could upload an example project for us to check if you got to it in more detail (though finding the exact steps to reproduce would probably be the difficult part here as I read from your post).
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2015, 07:36 AM   #3
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
Personally I can't say that I've seen this yet but I don't use glue on MIDI items very often.

Probably best if you could upload an example project for us to check if you got to it in more detail (though finding the exact steps to reproduce would probably be the difficult part here as I read from your post).
Thanks nofish, yeah it could be hard to reproduce, I only see it occasionally.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2015, 08:38 AM   #4
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

I use split glue etc a LOT when editing & have never seen this, but it does remind me of the same thing happening in BP Pro years ago. I will have a rummage around when I get back to the UK and see if I still have the problem and solution (for BPP) documented.
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2015, 09:22 AM   #5
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
Default

Can't recall seeing that happen.

Next time it does, please post the project with the two MIDI clips and their glued version here so we can have a look.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
DarkStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2015, 05:47 PM   #6
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Thanks guys,

Here is a Project RPP file showing the Expression 11 that was added when gluing.

http://stash-new.reaper.fm/24394/zz%...Gluing%201.RPP

The start of the expression that was added on each track is where the midi items were spliced. All but the first track were close to the same position.

This is the same midi file that's in the picture on the first post.

I had already deleted the added CC7 and CC1 events but you should
be able to see the CC11 if you open the CC11 lane.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2015, 06:45 PM   #7
Breeder
Human being with feelings
 
Breeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,436
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Thanks guys,

Here is a Project RPP file showing the Expression 11 that was added when gluing.

http://stash-new.reaper.fm/24394/zz%...Gluing%201.RPP

The start of the expression that was added on each track is where the midi items were spliced. All but the first track were close to the same position.

This is the same midi file that's in the picture on the first post.

I had already deleted the added CC7 and CC1 events but you should
be able to see the CC11 if you open the CC11 lane.
You should also supply items you glued. I tried splitting your glued items to replicate but no luck...
Breeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2015, 05:07 AM   #8
Soli Deo Gloria
Human being with feelings
 
Soli Deo Gloria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Argentina
Posts: 1,303
Default

Hi Tod!

I have seen this happening on two or three occasions, indeed. I never understood why it happened, but I agree that it must be due to some very specific condition, because it seems really difficult to reproduce.

I´ll be paying attention during work, and add this to the list...
Soli Deo Gloria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2015, 08:03 AM   #9
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeder View Post
You should also supply items you glued. I tried splitting your glued items to replicate but no luck...
Thanks Breeder, unfortunately I don't think the RPP I had just prior to gluing exits anymore.

I tried to reproduce it too but couldn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
I have seen this happening on two or three occasions, indeed. I never understood why it happened, but I agree that it must be due to some very specific condition, because it seems really difficult to reproduce.

I´ll be paying attention during work, and add this to the list...
Thanks Soli, I'll be keeping a closer watch to.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2015, 10:39 AM   #10
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Okay, I found the project file that I glued to get this problem. You can see the white marks where the unwanted CCs were created. I don't have a clue what these marks mean.

http://stash-new.reaper.fm/24402/zz%...Gluing%201.RPP

Any way if you DnLd that file and glue the Midi items, you should get the added CCs.

Please let me know what happens.

Thanks guys.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2015, 10:55 AM   #11
gibi25
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: France
Posts: 2,899
Default

Hi, Tod.
Your project here is one item per track.
So nothing to glue.
Is it me?
gibi25 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2015, 03:35 PM   #12
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gibi25 View Post
Hi, Tod.
Your project here is one item per track.
So nothing to glue.
Is it me?
Hi gib, actually you should see some little arrows or indicators on each of the four tracks.

Like I've already mentioned, I don't have a clue what they are or where they came from. They just seemed to appear out of no where.

Did you try to glue the tracks? Do that and see what happens.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2015, 10:43 PM   #13
gibi25
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: France
Posts: 2,899
Default

1- Yes, I can reproduce. Gluing creates CC's from the weird arrow to the end of the item.
2- In the item properties, switching from beats to time suppress the small arrow, and the problem is gone.
Please don't ask me why
gibi25 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2015, 02:35 AM   #14
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
Default

Do you mean the triangular indents on each clip after the last note?

Dragging the clip edge removes it. (As does Exporting each clip and loading them again. So it looks like a corruption of the clip length. I see that all of those clips are exactly the same length - how was that done?

Also, there is a small Empty clip on Track 1 at 6.4.69/
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
DarkStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2015, 02:54 AM   #15
gofer
-blänk-
 
gofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
Default

Yep, somehow there is a mismatch between item length and source length not resolved.

Normally when you have "Loop source" disabled and edit a MIDI item's edge (making the item longer) Reaper will set the source length to the new item length (may be dependent on some setting, dunno). This hasn't happened here for some reason. If you switch "loop source on and then off again for your problem items, the markings go away as well and glue works properly.

EDIT: Actually, whatever I apply in Item/take properties - even if I click a checkbox twice, so it is at it's original setting, just to make the "Apply" button clickable with no actual change - the length mismatch gets resolved. (/edit)


Like DS, I also assume something has gone wrong when you lengthened your items to be all the same length. Did you use an action/macro/script for this? If so, which?

Last edited by gofer; 06-28-2015 at 03:03 AM.
gofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2015, 03:35 AM   #16
Ollie
Super Moderator (no feelings)
 
Ollie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: On or near a dike
Posts: 9,834
Default

A. Your items are all kind of malformed in that they don't have a source start offset but show the half-triange indent as if the content was time-shifted (ALT-drag) at some point. Hard to tell what happened there but that's how you trigger the problem.

How to fix for now:

Move the right item edge forth and back to make the indents disappear. Glue will now work as expected.

B. There is also a bug:

1. Create MIDI item

2. Create a single CC event somewhere near the item end

3. ALT-drag content to the left in arrange so there's some room after the indent.

4. Glue item.

A dense row of CC events is created from the former (shifted) item end/indent to the new item's end. Doesn't happen in older versions and where exactly it was introduced is unknown yet (any help with that is welcome. )

Edit: That was introduced somewhere between v4.1 and 4.32, platform-independent.

Last edited by Ollie; 06-28-2015 at 06:40 AM.
Ollie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2015, 10:12 AM   #17
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Wow thanks guys.

Since I didn't purposely lengthen them, I'm not sure how it happened. However, like I've mentioned, this has happened to me more than a few times. I must be inadvertently lengthening them somehow, and all at the same time too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
So it looks like a corruption of the clip length. I see that all of those clips are exactly the same length - how was that done?
As I've mentioned many times, I like full song length midi items so I can replicate track based midi editing. So I start off my songs and compositions by selecting a time from the very front (1.1) and extend the time to where I think will be long enough, then insert midi items on all my midi tracks.

Also I usually try to keep all the midi items the same length as I go, although that's not always the case.

Quote:
Also, there is a small Empty clip on Track 1 at 6.4.69/
Ha, thanks DS, I saw that and wondered what it was, but it didn't seem to bother anything and I was in a hurry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Like DS, I also assume something has gone wrong when you lengthened your items to be all the same length. Did you use an action/macro/script for this? If so, which?
Thanks gofer, you're right about enabling and disabling the loop source, that takes care of the problem.

As for lengthening the midi items, I had a couple of bad experiences way back when I first started using Reaper, when I tried to lengthen the items by dragging them. I know it's a simple matter of setting Reaper up to do that but I guess I got a little gunshy.

Consequently, I've gotten in the habit of selecting the time line and inserting the amount of midi item I need. I'll either do that with all my midi tracks or simply select the new midi item and copy it to the rest of the midi tracks. Then I simply glue them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
A. Your items are all kind of malformed in that they don't have a source start offset but show the half-triange indent as if the content was time-shifted (ALT-drag) at some point. Hard to tell what happened there but that's how you trigger the problem.

How to fix for now:

Move the right item edge forth and back to make the indents disappear. Glue will now work as expected.
Thanks Ollie, I never try to lengthen my midi items by dragging them and I know I didn't in this case too. However, I am in and out of the Midi Editor a lot and sometimes I'll double click a midi item to go back into the ME.

In this case I might have selected all the midi items so they would be available for editing when I got in the ME, and when I double clicked I might have shifted them somehow. At least that's the only thing I can think of.

Quote:
B. There is also a bug:

1. Create MIDI item

2. Create a single CC event somewhere near the item end

3. ALT-drag content to the left in arrange so there's some room after the indent.

4. Glue item.

A dense row of CC events is created from the former (shifted) item end/indent to the new item's end. Doesn't happen in older versions and where exactly it was introduced is unknown yet (any help with that is welcome. )

Edit: That was introduced somewhere between v4.1 and 4.32, platform-independent.
Yep, I just tried this and it added the CC events.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2017, 01:05 PM   #18
juliansader
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,714
Default

Still occurring in v5.32.

(This is a very weird bug...)

A related thread is Editable part of MIDI-item cuts off before end of item. It seems that these items with incorrect source lengths may result from overlapping recordings:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordi View Post
Maybe it has something to do with the takes-system? When you record something with looping on, you get several takes. The last take always has a "cutoff point" when you stop recording.

Last edited by juliansader; 01-15-2017 at 10:14 PM.
juliansader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2021, 09:08 AM   #19
juliansader
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,714
Default

I'm not able to replicate this bug in v6.19, so it seems to have been fixed!
juliansader is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.