Old 05-20-2013, 07:27 PM   #1
hopi
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Default Fishman Triple Play - questions plz

well as usual, I can't find the thread with the forum search feature...

and I'm considering getting one of these when they come back in stock ...must be a hot seller, eh?

So asking of those that already have one... about the installation of the pickup itself...

I see or think I see, about the bracket that holds the controller and that seems to attach to the gtr strap pin, right..

OK... so far, but what about the pickup? I'm hoping you don't need to drill into the gtr top... is that true? How EXACTLY does it attach?

For example, I am thinking of putting it on my Taylor T5, but seriously do not want to alter the gtr top's surface... you know?

thanks for your experienced thoughts.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:52 PM   #2
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It has a pickup holder that has a sticky side that sticks to the guitar. You clip the pickup into that so the basic pickup slides in and out. They're are 4 or 5 of these of different heights so you can get it as close as possible to the strings, then there is a micro adjustment on the P/U itself for final adjustments.

I think the adhesive used isn't supposed to harm the finish. I didn't have to worry about that though because in my case it was a Tele so it affixes to the chrome piece.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:20 PM   #3
jackacid
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This thread?
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...hlight=fishman

Check pages 3 onward for Jason Brian Merrill's reactions and recordings. Makes me want to get one.
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:19 AM   #4
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Having both the Fishman now and the latest beta version of JamOrigin's MidiGuitar plugin and having played and compared both extensively, I'm going to take an opposing view to what I've read in the several posts concerning the Fishman.

I have not the slightest doubt whatsoever now that the best viable future for this entire MIDI guitar business lies in the software approach ... for several good reasons.

Understand, first of all, that it has been a long, hard road for JamOrigin in developing the software to accomplish this feat. Note also that the road has not come to its proper end yet, but the latest beta shows very clearly that this means of accomplishing good polyphonic guitar converted to MIDI will ultimately be a smashing success. Using software to achieve this is the future, whether you currently believe this or not.

With the Fishman, we are once again back to crap on our guitars, and I suggest anyone with a valuable guitar and a real lacquer surface stay miles away from any of this sticky stuff. I've heard the 'won't harm your guitar's finish' thing plenty of times before. In every case it has been an unreliable claim. I hope their insurance is up to date. Also, just wait until some good perspiration works its way down into the corky stuff, between any touching parts there. You'll see. I'm no slob around my instruments, but I'm not going to get all prissy and anal and constantly clean out the contact areas, etc.

Further, I'm unclear if replacement parts are going to be offered and how over-priced they will turn out to be. Meanwhile, be very very careful not to wreck that USB receiver dongle. Don't let it fall out on a hard floor, as it is rather flimsy, cheap plastic in my opinion, and it won't take much to crack any of it. I might say the same of the unit on the body -- cheap, rather thin plastic housing there also. I think for the money a much better design could have been made. I think this is about the flimsiest Fishman stuff I've ever seen, to be honest.

The latency is supposed to be .5 ms? I average about 10 times that, as others are reporting in, though I will say it runs smoothly in Reaper. But then, the MidiGuitar plugin is greatly improved and does rather well in its own right. Less latency for me, too. I will admit that the Fishman tracks rather well, once you have tweaked and adjusted the dickens out of it. However, properly set, I can say essentially the same of the MidiGuitar plugin now in its latest incarnation as well.

Some of this is just personal, but I really don't like junk on my guitars. I'm not interested in switching it from axe to axe, either, so I'm trapped into using it on just one -- unless I care to get almost taken to the cleaner's again and buy more. I haven't completely decided yet, but like the Roland Guitar Synth I had years ago, I expect I'll dump the Fishman setup by year's end. It's just all too precious and a bother.

Although it truly isn't 'there' yet, I know what's involved with perfecting the MidiGuitar VST plugin, and I have no doubts at all that JamOrigin will have this plugin performing spectacularly before very much longer. In the meantime, the beta really isn't half bad if you take the time to learn its subtleties. I think it did help having used the GR synth previously. I've fiddled with other means in the past also -- there's just a certain playing approach and finesse needed. Players with sloppy technique ought not bother with this MIDI guitar stuff at all I think. I mention this because I believe incredibly sloppy guitar technique is all too prevalent among players these days (even if many do try to bury it under tonnes of ridiculous distortion).

Anyway, I know there are plenty still raving over the novelty of the Fishman. I understand. And I'm not saying the result of that product is all 'bad'; what I am saying is that the hex pickup approach is ultimately a dead end, eventually headed for some vintage MIDI gadget memorabilia website and the history books.

The software solution will be the end winner, more hassle-free, cheaper and more convenient. I have to commend JamOrigin for having the guts, vision and perseverance to push on with his software approach. All we need on our part is a little more patience.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:36 AM   #5
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I must say I'm getting more and more intrigued about this Triple Play business again, despite the steep pricing in the EU area. I'm just worried if I'll be able to fit the pickup in the small space between the bridge and the pickup I have in my Parker Maxxfly.

About the Midi Guitar vst.. it's definitely a groundbreaking achievement, but there are currently two flaws which prevent it from being a final solution for me:

1. Simultaneous notes don't track well. It's more designed towards strumming than fingerpicking, but I don't want to strum a piano?

2. Chords with notes a semitone apart are a problem. The first note gets overridden.

Hopefully these problems will get fixed before I succumb to the temptation of the Triple Play.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
The latency is supposed to be .5 ms? I average about 10 times that, as others are reporting in
AFAIK the .5ms is for the entire Pitch-To-Midi piece of the chain (possibly including the wireless/USB piece) with the rest of the normal DAW latency added to that which is the nature of the beast if you will. I posted some rough measurements in the other thread FWIW.

Additionally, as mentioned the total latency is dynamic. Meaning a low E will have higher latency than a high E which plagues all Pitch-To-Midi converters I would expect. Something to remember is that if you want to compensate in Reaper by moving the MIDI item ~n samples (assume you aren't going to quantize but want the performance) you'll likely want to discover the average center pitch of the piece being played and align based off of that latency number measured via loopback. Otherwise, you'll be over or undercompensating.

^Then again, I've found I can usually get the total latency I hear/play low enough that I can compensate my playing to match and I don't have to touch anything. To be honest that's my main measurement, if I can compensate my playing comfortably, the latency numbers become irrelevant regardless of whether its TriplePlay, JamOrigin or a MIDI keyboard or standing 15 feet away from a real drummer.

I'd imagine the latency difference you feel between TriplePlay and JamOrigin is getting the note from the guitar across the wireless through the USB receiver on its way to the A/D converter. It would take time to ship it across and move through the USB receiver. It would be interesting to measure that exact number which should be possible if one has JamOrigin and TriplePlay and does some nifty testing using the same signal for both while recording two simultaneous MIDI items. There would still be the unknown of which actually converts faster (if one of them does) but would be good to know nonetheless.

Last edited by karbomusic; 05-21-2013 at 07:05 PM.
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