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11-26-2015, 09:51 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario
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Hardware compressor recommendations
I recently won a GAP Pre73 Jr from reverb.com, so that'll form the input of my studio's front end.
I'm trying to decide what I should look for next to complete a good quality channel strip. I've decided that a compressor would be the best thing to add next. Most producers recommend an 1176, but I wonder if there's a more economic compressor that can cover a bit more ground. Basically I'm looking for a tracking compressor for vocals, acoustic and electric guitar, Hammond organ, and basic percussion (not drums). I love pre-1980 sounds.
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11-26-2015, 09:58 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Budget?
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11-26-2015, 10:09 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf
Budget?
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Under $500
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11-26-2015, 10:47 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
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Well, that narrows it down to either an FMR (fiddly knobs) or one of my personal favourites (used), the Symetrix 525 (2 channels, great tracking comp).
Then there's 2 units which I don't have any experiences with: the Golden Age and the Fredenstein V.A.S.. They sure look interesting - anybody?
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11-26-2015, 10:58 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf
Well, that narrows it down to either an FMR (fiddly knobs) or one of my personal favourites (used), the Symetrix 525 (2 channels, great tracking comp).
Then there's 2 units which I don't have any experiences with: the Golden Age and the Fredenstein V.A.S.. They sure look interesting - anybody?
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I've been looking closely at the FMR RNLA. Is it a good vintage-y compressor? I've only heard it compared to 80s-style compressors.
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11-26-2015, 11:10 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Art Pro VLA
not an 1176 or even a FET but a great compressor at a great price.
Works great on Vox, Acoustic instruments, Bass and even as a bus compressor and for the kind of stuff I've heard you doing, as an opto might be more in line.
Even next to the $2k compressors in my rack, this one still gets plenty of use.
I personally do not like the FMR stuff at all but that's a YMMV kind of deal.
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11-26-2015, 11:26 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristol Posse
Art Pro VLA
not an 1176 or even a FET but a great compressor at a great price.
Works great on Vox, Acoustic instruments, Bass and even as a bus compressor and for the kind of stuff I've heard you doing, as an opto might be more in line.
Even next to the $2k compressors in my rack, this one still gets plenty of use.
I personally do not like the FMR stuff at all but that's a YMMV kind of deal.
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That's great advice. There's one on sale a local Long & McQuade for $199. I may have to take the dive.
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"I've never trusted Klingons and I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy."
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11-26-2015, 12:49 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristol Posse
Art Pro VLA
not an 1176 or even a FET but a great compressor at a great price.
Works great on Vox, Acoustic instruments, Bass and even as a bus compressor and for the kind of stuff I've heard you doing, as an opto might be more in line.
Even next to the $2k compressors in my rack, this one still gets plenty of use.
I personally do not like the FMR stuff at all but that's a YMMV kind of deal.
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I never really glued with the ART, but I've heard good things about a tube swap (12AT7 IIRC)!
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11-27-2015, 07:54 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf
I never really glued with the ART, but I've heard good things about a tube swap (12AT7 IIRC)!
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A tube swap works well on any sort of tube amp. I'm not sure precisely what's in the ART, but I can imagine the stock noise floor isn't ideal. In my experience with guitar amps, a lower gain preamp tube works wonders for noise and touch sensitivity. The 12ax7/ECC83 is a pretty standard tube for most preamps because of availability and low cost. It can always stand to be replaced.
But I haven't quite decided what to get. The ART is topping the list, but I think I could stand to get over the external preamp learning curve before adding new gear. Besides which, I recently decided to mod a cheap CAD GXL2200 with an RK-47 capsule. That should improve my front end considerably for awhile. I can use the time to keep reading and digging for good deals on EQs and compressors.
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11-27-2015, 08:52 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
A tube swap works well on any sort of tube amp. I'm not sure precisely what's in the ART, but I can imagine the stock noise floor isn't ideal.
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Noise floor - I don't know. I was referring to the overall sound. The 2 times I've heard/used it, it was a little on the plasticky, 2D, side, but this can be cured I think.
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11-27-2015, 10:18 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf
Noise floor - I don't know. I was referring to the overall sound. The 2 times I've heard/used it, it was a little on the plasticky, 2D, side, but this can be cured I think.
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I'd bet it was a cheap tube issue that was causing that 2D thing. Newly made Russian or Chinese tubes tend to have odds of one in five sounding crappy, in my experience. This extends to power tubes and rectifiers. The most critical applications are the preamp tubes, though, so I've always spent a bit more on JAN NOS tubes. Those always work and sound as good as the last one. I've had the odd one be a bit noisy, but that doesn't matter so much in a guitar amp.
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11-27-2015, 11:13 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
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JLM LA500
FMR
GAP 2254 (haven't tried it)
dbx 160A
Only one I can give true advise on is the LA500. Love it. But not for all things.
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11-27-2015, 12:26 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
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I have two VLAs
The tube is in the make up gain stage only so it does get some crunch if you really push the output gain. Max output gain is 20dB so this is not a guitar amp type of amplifier.
The one I have with stock tubes has a noise floor below -85dBu in line level = +4dBu mode. Its lower still if you switch to -10dBv mode but of course so is the output.
The one I put NOS RCA tubes in is actually slightly noisier (still below -80dBu)
So that's ~90dBu or more below line level which is a lot less noise than many analog emulation plugins.
This is where understanding how your converters translate dBu to dBFS in the DAW becomes important.
For example for tracking, I set my RME converters to High headroom which puts Line level (+4dBU) at -15dBFS in REAPER. The analog noise floor of the VLA at unity is around 90dB below that. so barely above the converter noise and isn't an issue.
Last edited by Bristol Posse; 11-27-2015 at 12:41 PM.
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11-27-2015, 12:49 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
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Better question than 'what compressor' is what type of compressor. There are so many different designs.
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11-27-2015, 02:20 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
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My favorite compressors/limiters has always been the Valley People dyna-mite. Actually it's more of a limiter, expander, gate.
I've got two of them in my rack and each one has 2 limiters for a total of 4.
I see you can still get them but they don't come like the what I've got, they're only single units. I see them advertised in Musicians Friend for $599.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...ressor-limiter
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11-28-2015, 09:21 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
My favorite compressors/limiters has always been the Valley People dyna-mite. Actually it's more of a limiter, expander, gate.
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Yep, they're amazing (I've got one, too) - but I never used it for tracking. I guess it's a little too fast for anything but drums, no? Love the expander as well, the best ever conceived IMO!
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11-28-2015, 12:49 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf
Yep, they're amazing (I've got one, too) - but I never used it for tracking. I guess it's a little too fast for anything but drums, no? Love the expander as well, the best ever conceived IMO!
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Hi beingmf, actually I used them on anything and everything. They worked great for tracking vocals too, when they were in the soft knee mode.
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11-29-2015, 04:45 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
Hi beingmf, actually I used them on anything and everything. They worked great for tracking vocals too, when they were in the soft knee mode.
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Aha - will try this for sure. Thanks, Tod!
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11-30-2015, 08:43 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler
Better question than 'what compressor' is what type of compressor. There are so many different designs.
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This is true, Ferg. We did cover this earlier, but I'd be open to your recommendations. BristolPosse recommended an opto-style, with which I agree. I'd actually like to find an LA3A clone, which sort of splits the difference between the LA2A and 1176. What do you think?
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11-30-2015, 11:35 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
This is true, Ferg. We did cover this earlier, but I'd be open to your recommendations. BristolPosse recommended an opto-style, with which I agree. I'd actually like to find an LA3A clone, which sort of splits the difference between the LA2A and 1176. What do you think?
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Well,
LA500 is pretty close then.
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11-30-2015, 12:57 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
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I have recently picked up a Warm Audio EQ, yes I know that this is not a Compressor.
The thing is this is wonderful I have gear like Neve, Groove tubes, Focusrite,
UAD plugins too etc
If the Warm Audio Comps are anything like their EQ I would seriously take a look at one they are priced well.
Grinder
https://soundcloud.com/steve-maitland-1
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11-30-2015, 01:35 PM
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#22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun
Well,
LA500 is pretty close then.
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Ah, I'm not prepared to get into the 500 series. Should've specified. That could quickly become a money pit for me.
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11-30-2015, 01:47 PM
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#23
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Last edited by grinder; 11-30-2015 at 01:49 PM.
Reason: add
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11-30-2015, 03:27 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
.............. I'd actually like to find an LA3A clone, which sort of splits the difference between the LA2A and 1176. What do you think?
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I've only had a couple of days tracking with an LA3A that we borrowed for a project early this year but I was not a huge fan
Certainly a faster comp the the LA2A but nothing like as aggressive as the 1176.
Seems to have a lot less character than either the LA2A or 1176
I can see why some people would like it on bass if the 1176 is too aggressive and if the LA2A is too warm but I couldn't find much use for it that wasn't done better by something else.
The fact that there aren't millions of people making clones; and that UA seem to be either cancelling the reissues or at least not making many of them; and many of the usual audio suspect stores not carrying them kinda tells me I may be onto something too.
YMMV of course
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11-30-2015, 03:41 PM
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#25
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I got the UAD LA2A plugin and it is very handy and does the job has a sound too, I liked the sound better than other UAD clone plugins I tried out there.
Hardware vs plugins.............. I meant what I said in my first reply here when you get good hardware there is so much you can do with the sound they poke out.
I have listened and used the UAD LA3A plugin but truly the sound it was lost on me others may think different.
Grinder
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12-01-2015, 08:43 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder
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This is definitely a possibility.
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12-01-2015, 10:28 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
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I come from New Zealand Kirk totally no connection with the firm Warm Audio the eq I got from them is right up there in my opinion.
Grinder
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12-01-2015, 10:51 AM
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#28
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Since nobody's mentioned it yet and it's super cheap (last I looked), I'll suggest the DBX 163X. The one-slider adjustment makes it easy to use, and if you're moderate, it sounds anywhere from good to great on almost everything. Definitely has some retro mojo. A possible downside is it's not a balanced in/out unit. At any rate, the 163X is so cheap and useful everybody should have at least one in their rack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
Besides which, I recently decided to mod a cheap CAD GXL2200 with an RK-47 capsule. That should improve my front end considerably for awhile.
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BTW, I'd be interested to know your thoughts after you do the RK-47 mod. I've got a mic here I've been thinking of modding with either the RK-47 or the RK-12 capsule. So far heard good things about both.
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12-01-2015, 11:01 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beginwhereur
Since nobody's mentioned it yet and it's super cheap (last I looked), I'll suggest the DBX 163X. The one-slider adjustment makes it easy to use, and if you're moderate, it sounds anywhere from good to great on almost everything. Definitely has some retro mojo. A possible downside is it's not a balanced in/out unit. At any rate, the 163X is so cheap and useful everybody should have at least one in their rack.
BTW, I'd be interested to know your thoughts after you do the RK-47 mod. I've got a mic here I've been thinking of modding with either the RK-47 or the RK-12 capsule. So far heard good things about both.
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I've looked at the DBX stuff. They're all really affordable, but no one seems to recommend them except for drums.
I've heard good things about the RK-47 too. I figured it was worth the try.
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12-16-2015, 10:53 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beginwhereur
Since nobody's mentioned it yet and it's super cheap (last I looked), I'll suggest the DBX 163X. The one-slider adjustment makes it easy to use, and if you're moderate, it sounds anywhere from good to great on almost everything. Definitely has some retro mojo. A possible downside is it's not a balanced in/out unit. At any rate, the 163X is so cheap and useful everybody should have at least one in their rack.
BTW, I'd be interested to know your thoughts after you do the RK-47 mod. I've got a mic here I've been thinking of modding with either the RK-47 or the RK-12 capsule. So far heard good things about both.
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Found a 163x for $85 on reverb.com. I'm seriously considering it.
Regarding the RK-47: I did the mod in about half an hour. I was really taking my time, though. It's definitely fiddly, but what isn't?
Run, don't walk to get this capsule. I basically plugged it in to test if I didn't screw it up and I was really impressed by the sound. All the good reviews are telling the truth.
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12-16-2015, 12:44 PM
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#31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
Found a 163x for $85 on reverb.com. I'm seriously considering it.
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Great unit!!
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12-16-2015, 12:46 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf
Great unit!!
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It's already gone.
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12-16-2015, 12:56 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
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If you really fancy an 1176, they are not the hardest nor even the most expensive thing in the world to make.
If you have th tools (decent soldering iron, etc.) and the basic know how' it is a very practical alternative and by the time you have built it you will know enough to repair it if it ever dies.
Lots of folks doing everything from a schematic with instructions to a full kit.
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Ici on parles Franglais
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12-16-2015, 02:11 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
If you really fancy an 1176, they are not the hardest nor even the most expensive thing in the world to make.
If you have th tools (decent soldering iron, etc.) and the basic know how' it is a very practical alternative and by the time you have built it you will know enough to repair it if it ever dies.
Lots of folks doing everything from a schematic with instructions to a full kit.
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I don't really fancy an 1176. It's just that's the standard consensus on "if you could only have one compressor" conversations. From what I've heard, I prefer Vari-Mu and LA2A designs for the recording I do. I don't care for transparency when tracking. I need all the help I can get, lol!
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12-16-2015, 03:42 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
I don't really fancy an 1176. It's just that's the standard consensus on "if you could only have one compressor" conversations. From what I've heard, I prefer Vari-Mu and LA2A designs for the recording I do. I don't care for transparency when tracking. I need all the help I can get, lol!
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May I use "The grass is always greener on the other side"? If you have one LA2A, you'd want an 1176 or transparent, and triple vice versa ... for particular signals. So in the end it doesn't really matter what to get first. IMVHO and YMMV
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12-17-2015, 03:30 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
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....which is why I sold all but one of my hardware compressors (kept a nice JoeMeek) and use plugins instead.
At least 90% of the bang of the average esoteric unit for way less buck.
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Ici on parles Franglais
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12-17-2015, 04:19 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
....which is why I sold all but one of my hardware compressors (kept a nice JoeMeek) and use plugins instead.
At least 90% of the bang of the average esoteric unit for way less buck.
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But in that case you need a really powerful puter in order to use them plugins for tracking - so likely 64 samples latency, max 128 (in case the musicians don't hear it )?
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12-17-2015, 06:30 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
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i7 4770 with 16gb seems to cope just fine. only 1 iteration at a time for tracking in my case, which makes a huge difference.
Might be SOL if I grow a second set of hands or if I want to record more than one sloppy player at a time!
FWIW I track bass with no compression at all these days. My playing control has improved exponentially since I got back into recording myself.
Hearing early stuff back, I was so embarrassed I decided to get my picking under control!
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12-17-2015, 08:22 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
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I don't have a super powerful laptop to track through plugins. I basically record my own music anyway, so I like to limit my choices. A person can spoil himself with choice these days. I honestly believe a good front end can make a huge difference during mixing. If you start with a good sounding track, it makes my life easier down the line.
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12-17-2015, 10:02 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
I was so embarrassed I decided to get my picking under control!
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May I give you the email address of the bass player I recorded last week?
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