Old 08-26-2014, 06:04 PM   #1
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Default Amp Sim Setup

I am on the record as not liking sims but I have agreed to work on salvaging a mix and I am going to need to go there. The recorded guitars are not good but they did record the DI. Presumably they intended to use sims at some point.

So, I downloaded the LePou Amp sims, LeCab2, Ignite's NadlRand and the free Redwires 1960A-G12M to get started. I am finding that SO many of the sims are geared towards metal which just is not even close to what I need. I am wondering if I can even save these this track with sims with so much of it being "just paste break up" which seems to be where sims are weakest from what I have found so far.

Any suggestions you have would be welcome
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Old 08-26-2014, 06:06 PM   #2
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What kind of sound are you looking for?
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Old 08-26-2014, 06:15 PM   #3
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I am wondering if I can even save these this track with sims with so much of it being "just past break up" which seems to be where sims are weakest from what I have found so far.

Any suggestions you have would be welcome
.....

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Old 08-26-2014, 06:17 PM   #4
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I dunno what "just paste break up" is supposed to mean.
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Old 08-26-2014, 06:22 PM   #5
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I dunno what "just paste break up" is supposed to mean.
Paste = post or past, beyond.

Grab the S-Gear demo and try that...

http://www.scuffhamamps.com/product/s-gear
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Old 08-26-2014, 06:30 PM   #6
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If you have a physical amp that sounds like you want, you can always route the recorded DI guitar out to the amp input, mic the amp and record that.

For Sims, I like AmpliTube.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:14 PM   #7
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.....
Have you tried this?

Voxengo Tube Amp

You might have to play with a bit, but once I figured it out I can get some smooth grit out of it that isn't too over the top.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:30 PM   #8
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If you can still find it, try Aradaz Crunch. It was always my go-to for that sort of tone, maybe with a tube screamer sim in front.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:59 PM   #9
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I agree that sims don't do semi-clean/semi-crunch sounds well. Trying to get that type of sound from a sim can be an exercise in futility.

After demoing everything that I could get my hands on over the years, I have been using a few of the Podfarm amp models (Plexi and Blackface models) through an Amplitube cab model (PPC 112 cab model/414 and 57 mic models). I'm not content with it, but I haven't found anything better. If you find something that works well, let me know...those of us who are not happy with sims for those inbetween-gain sounds seem to be in our own breed. If you want to hear what my sim setup sounds like, drop me a link to a direct guitar track, and I'll send you some processed clips back to listen to.
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:47 PM   #10
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http://mercuriall.iks.ru/cms/?p=237
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Old 08-27-2014, 05:35 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Andy Hamm View Post
Have you tried this?

Voxengo Tube Amp

You might have to play with a bit, but once I figured it out I can get some smooth grit out of it that isn't too over the top.
I have not. I will investigate
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Old 08-27-2014, 05:38 AM   #12
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I agree that sims don't do semi-clean/semi-crunch sounds well. Trying to get that type of sound from a sim can be an exercise in futility.

After demoing everything that I could get my hands on over the years, I have been using a few of the Podfarm amp models (Plexi and Blackface models) through an Amplitube cab model (PPC 112 cab model/414 and 57 mic models). I'm not content with it, but I haven't found anything better. If you find something that works well, let me know...those of us who are not happy with sims for those inbetween-gain sounds seem to be in our own breed. If you want to hear what my sim setup sounds like, drop me a link to a direct guitar track, and I'll send you some processed clips back to listen to.
Now that you mention it I seem to recall snagging some version of PODFarm some time ago when they were giving it away as a promotion. I will have to go visit my archive and see if its there. I tend to hoard freebies even if I don't need them. The collection gets out of control quick though...
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Old 08-27-2014, 06:15 AM   #13
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Now that you mention it I seem to recall snagging some version of PODFarm some time ago when they were giving it away as a promotion. I will have to go visit my archive and see if its there. I tend to hoard freebies even if I don't need them. The collection gets out of control quick though...
Please save yourself some time and demo S-gear. Podfarm cannot compete with S-gear when it comes to..well anything, but especially edge of breakup tones. The stealer (marshall) is my goto for those dirty cleans. The wayfarer (fender) is also nice as is the '57 tweed.

Another amp sim to try is Kuassa vermilion. Its cheap and it does the small fender and supro amp tones really well.
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Old 08-27-2014, 06:28 AM   #14
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Grab the S-Gear demo and try that...

http://www.scuffhamamps.com/product/s-gear
Definitely, S-Gear is in a class of its own.
I'm lucky to have hardware variants in the studio of all those amp types which S-Gear models, and I use S-Gear for practicing at home, it feels absolutely real, no other sim comes even close.
And its FX are perfect for guitar, not merely a generic afterthought.
All that said, I don't do modern metal, ymmv for these tones ...
Not nearly as important as the quality, but it's an absolute bargain, too !

If I may offer a tip directly related to your task at hand :
Treat the DI signal dynamically, cut it up and use item gain, subtle item EQ and item compression to accentuate certain notes, combined with S-Gear's "sag" control this will enhance the illusion of realism even more.

ymmv,
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:17 AM   #15
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What is special about S-gear? I have demoed it, and I heard nothing that put it above other modelers. I do see alot of nods for it around various forums, but I don't hear the big deal at all. I'm not saying that it is bad, as far as modelers go, but it is not in a different class, either.

Podfarm amp models are ok, as far as modelers go, but the speaker models are not - they sound very band-limited. I think this is why some people raved about the Pod HD when it came out - it doesn't sound like it's going through extreme high-pass and low-pass filters. Any way, I tried an HD for a while, and I thought that Podfarm through a better cab model (Amplitube) was as good or better than the HD.

Audiowonderland, there is a freebie version of Podfarm, but I think it only has a JCM 800 model and maybe a fender type model. The JCM model is ok (as far as amp modelers go, any way) for a modern rock sound, when used through through the Amplitube PPC112 cab model. The Podfarm cabs are pretty blah, though. I wouldn't use the JCM model for a 'just past breakup' sound, though, no matter what cab model is used.

On the freeware stuff: some of it sounds ok to good for metal. But for classic rock, garagey stuff, jangly indie stuff, character sounds? I think not.
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:25 AM   #16
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What is special about S-gear? I have demoed it, and I heard nothing that put it above other modelers. I do see alot of nods for it around various forums, but I don't hear the big deal at all. I'm not saying that it is bad, as far as modelers go, but it is not in a different class, either.

Podfarm amp models are ok, as far as modelers go, but the speaker models are not - they sound very band-limited. I think this is why some people raved about the Pod HD when it came out - it doesn't sound like it's going through extreme high-pass and low-pass filters. Any way, I tried an HD for a while, and I thought that Podfarm through a better cab model (Amplitube) was as good or better than the HD.

Audiowonderland, there is a freebie version of Podfarm, but I think it only has a JCM 800 model and maybe a fender type model. The JCM model is ok (as far as amp modelers go, any way) for a modern rock sound, when used through through the Amplitube PPC112 cab model. The Podfarm cabs are pretty blah, though. I wouldn't use the JCM model for a 'just past breakup' sound, though, no matter what cab model is used.

On the freeware stuff: some of it sounds ok to good for metal. But for classic rock, garagey stuff, jangly indie stuff, character sounds? I think not.
The freebie stuff will have to do. Like I said they are not typically my thing and this is not a paying gig so I don't want to put any money into this unless absolutely necessary and the purchase makes sense for me beyond this project. Assuming I have the POD farm app in the archive, the Redwires freebie should be a speaker sim upgrade for it. I am still poking around to see what else I can find
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:29 AM   #17
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What is special about S-gear? I have demoed it, and I heard nothing that put it above other modelers.
It seems to musically fit better than others in my experience. I've also found dialing in on what a SIM sounds like outside of a mix as in solo'd by itself is it's own exercise in futility. Meaning S-Gear seems to work better in context than most of the other SIM's I've used and... it's an amp SIM, not a suite of 8000 "music store demo sounds" if you know what I mean. I like that I can fire it up, turn a knob, record a track /end.

Otherwise, I'm using amps anyway but SIMs get used too.
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:33 AM   #18
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The freebie stuff will have to do. Like I said they are not typically my thing and this is not a paying gig so I don't want to put any money into this unless absolutely necessary and the purchase makes sense for me beyond this project. Assuming I have the POD farm app in the archive, the Redwires freebie should be a speaker sim upgrade for it. I am still poking around to see what else I can find
There is a free Orange cab ir that I used to use that seemed good at the time. I'll see if I can dig it up and give it another listen. Btw, can you think of any song that is in the ballpark of the type of sound that you're looking for?
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:55 AM   #19
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What is special about S-gear? I have demoed it, and I heard nothing that put it above other modelers. I do see alot of nods for it around various forums, but I don't hear the big deal at all. I'm not saying that it is bad, as far as modelers go, but it is not in a different class, either.
-- With tube amp modelers, the acid test is how they react to playing nuances, pick dynamics and the like, especially in the transition area between clean and crunch. This is something a player "feels" rather than it making a huge obvious tonal difference to the listener, but an expressive player will perform better when he can play with confidence, so the musical result will be better for the listener, too.
-- Then there are certain types of "parasitic intermodulation distortion" (don't know if there's an official term) when an overdriven chord fades out - only the very best and well serviced real amps are free from that, and S-Gear does a mighty good job here, too.
Most other sims perform pretty poor here.
-- Finally, might not matter to most people, but the controls react just like in the real amps, warts'n'all, making S-Gear feel kinda familiar and predictable when you know the original hardware.
-- Most of these things tend to become more pronounced the less distorted your tone is, high gain poses a different set of challenges.

ymmv,
Rhino
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:01 AM   #20
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The freebie stuff will have to do. Like I said they are not typically my thing and this is not a paying gig so I don't want to put any money into this unless absolutely necessary and the purchase makes sense for me beyond this project. Assuming I have the POD farm app in the archive, the Redwires freebie should be a speaker sim upgrade for it. I am still poking around to see what else I can find
The S-Gear demo is fully working for 15 days ...
Not advocating anything unethical here, but you might miss it enough to actually buy it when the demo's over ...
just saying,
Rhino
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:13 AM   #21
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What is special about S-gear? I have demoed it, and I heard nothing that put it above other modelers. I do see alot of nods for it around various forums, but I don't hear the big deal at all. I'm not saying that it is bad, as far as modelers go, but it is not in a different class, either.

Podfarm amp models are ok, as far as modelers go, but the speaker models are not - they sound very band-limited. I think this is why some people raved about the Pod HD when it came out - it doesn't sound like it's going through extreme high-pass and low-pass filters. Any way, I tried an HD for a while, and I thought that Podfarm through a better cab model (Amplitube) was as good or better than the HD.

Audiowonderland, there is a freebie version of Podfarm, but I think it only has a JCM 800 model and maybe a fender type model. The JCM model is ok (as far as amp modelers go, any way) for a modern rock sound, when used through through the Amplitube PPC112 cab model. The Podfarm cabs are pretty blah, though. I wouldn't use the JCM model for a 'just past breakup' sound, though, no matter what cab model is used.
I owned and struggled with the POD HD500 for 2 years. The cab sims on it are WRETCHED. The amp sims however are substantially better than POD farm especially the clean tones and the dynamic feel of the mid gain amps.

I demo'd S-gear, bought it and sold the HD500 a couple months later. In about 5 minutes The stealer gave me the marshall tone and feel I had been trying to achieve with the POD for 2 years.
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:23 AM   #22
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I owned and struggled with the POD HD500 for 2 years. The cab sims on it are WRETCHED. The amp sims however are substantially better than POD farm especially the clean tones and the dynamic feel of the mid gain amps.

I demo'd S-gear, bought it and sold the HD500 a couple months later. In about 5 minutes The stealer gave me the marshall tone and feel I had been trying to achieve with the POD for 2 years.
I agree that the HD blows. It's cabs don't blow as bad as the Podfarm cabs, imo, but blowing is blowing all the same (for tight rock/metal sounds, the HD cabs blow hard). When I had the HD, I did lots of comparing with Podfarm, Amplitube, free stuff, trying these models with those cab models, etc. I didn't hear anything special in the amp models that made me want to keep the HD around. If I'm not mistaken, I demoed S-gear around the same time.
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:28 AM   #23
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The freebie stuff will have to do. Like I said they are not typically my thing and this is not a paying gig so I don't want to put any money into this unless absolutely necessary and the purchase makes sense for me beyond this project. Assuming I have the POD farm app in the archive, the Redwires freebie should be a speaker sim upgrade for it. I am still poking around to see what else I can find
You can find a copy of AcmeBargigs free "preampus meathead" here
http://www.grebz.fr/simulator_freeam...bargig_eng.php

This site is not a torrent but I dont know what the policy is on these discontinued freebies. So if this is not cool I guess I will delete the link.

Anyway meathead is essentially the only free vox style amp I am aware of. Paired with the right cab i think its pretty good at what the Vox is famous for: Chimey semi distorted rhythm guitar. Think tom petty, U2, modern country, every jangley pop rock band from the 90's, etc.
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:31 AM   #24
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-- With tube amp modelers, the acid test is how they react to playing nuances, pick dynamics and the like, especially in the transition area between clean and crunch. This is something a player "feels" rather than it making a huge obvious tonal difference to the listener, but an expressive player will perform better when he can play with confidence, so the musical result will be better for the listener, too.
-- Then there are certain types of "parasitic intermodulation distortion" (don't know if there's an official term) when an overdriven chord fades out - only the very best and well serviced real amps are free from that, and S-Gear does a mighty good job here, too.
Most other sims perform pretty poor here.
-- Finally, might not matter to most people, but the controls react just like in the real amps, warts'n'all, making S-Gear feel kinda familiar and predictable when you know the original hardware.
-- Most of these things tend to become more pronounced the less distorted your tone is, high gain poses a different set of challenges.

ymmv,
Rhino
No amp sim is going to give touch response that some amps have. It's an interaction all the way through the chain, from the fingers to the speaker. I know what that's about, and once you experience it, you don't forget it. I'll bet my balls that no sim will get that going on in my lifetime. That's some complex physics at play.

I know about the fading gain thing, too. It sounds like a fading fuzz pedal, but not as extreme. And yea, I have heard it in crappy real amps, too. Peavey Classic series anyone? From what I remember of demoing S-gear, it made a tradeoff here, resulting in a sort of over tameness in that transistion, which sounded a bit dull. I would demo it again to check, but I think the S-gear demo is a one time thing.
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:39 AM   #25
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There is a free Orange cab ir that I used to use that seemed good at the time. I'll see if I can dig it up and give it another listen. Btw, can you think of any song that is in the ballpark of the type of sound that you're looking for?
I relistened to that free cab ir, and it isn't so nice after all.

I think I paid like $10-15 for the amplitube orange ppc112 cab ir and 414 mic model. It was well worth that. I think that the amplitube custom shop has a $20 minimum credit, though.
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:50 AM   #26
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For free cab impulses look here for a great list
http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2010...lse-responses/
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Old 08-27-2014, 09:09 AM   #27
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No amp sim is going to give touch response that some amps have. It's an interaction all the way through the chain, from the fingers to the speaker. I know what that's about, and once you experience it, you don't forget it. I'll bet my balls that no sim will get that going on in my lifetime. That's some complex physics at play.
Right, I also prefer my real amps of course, but that's somewhat beside the point for an ampsim recommendation. And ime, when played at comparable volume S-Gear gets damn close.

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I know about the fading gain thing, too. It sounds like a fading fuzz pedal, but not as extreme. And yea, I have heard it in crappy real amps, too.
Exactly.

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Peavey Classic series anyone?
I beg to differ, my 1st gen tweed Classic50 would be insulted ...
With real amps it's a combination of several factors, tubes, bias, aged or less than stellar caps and resistors and so on, 3 out of 4 old Marshalls suffer from that syndrome too, it takes a lot of patience and an experienced tech to fix these things. I've not yet seen evidence of a whole line of amps being plagued, it appears to be more of an individual thing.
ymmv ...
But we're getting OT, sorry.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:33 AM   #28
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There is a free Orange cab ir that I used to use that seemed good at the time. I'll see if I can dig it up and give it another listen. Btw, can you think of any song that is in the ballpark of the type of sound that you're looking for?
Stones / Black Crowes
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Old 08-27-2014, 12:09 PM   #29
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Stones / Black Crowes
Stones makes me think, fender. Black Crowes, low gain marshall.

I don't mean to discourage you from trying, but listening back through some of the freeware, I think you won't get in the ballpark of those sounds using current freeware. You definitely can get much closer using commercial amp sims, and I'll put it this way: for those types of sounds, I think there is a signficantly bigger gap between current freeware and commercial amp sims than between commercial amp sims and real amps.
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Old 08-27-2014, 12:50 PM   #30
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Or, alternatively you could simply reamp the DI signal with a decent real amp.
All you need is a reamp box, kind of an inverted DI box, to make the line level signal from the DAW suitable for an amp input again.
Gives you the best of both worlds, real amp tone and unlimited undo.
just saying ...
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Old 08-27-2014, 02:15 PM   #31
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If you're after clean, crunch, OD sounds, S-Gear is the best you can have, imo (the only amp sim that I use anymore). For free, The latest AXP amp, Flextron, should do. Also try his other plugs.

I see almost everything else has been already mentioned, so I'll stop here.

Some really good IRs:

http://www.ownhammer.com/free/public-beta-redux/
http://www.redwirez.com/free1960g12m25s.jsp
http://cabs.kalthallen.de/kalthallen_free.html

Also google: God's Cab Impulses" (it's temporarily down, but should be back soon).

Finally DL DistorqueAudioFx if you already haven't. Great stuff, really. And of course TSEAudio (the best free TS808 for sure and all the other stuff is great (this is the link to the last free version of X50, I know it's not exactly what you're after, but is worth having, for sure).


Cheers,
Alex

Just an afterthought - try this, just use some good irs and maybe some fx. That plug was mentioned the other day and somebody said he didn't really like it, but I could get some really nice tones out of it in the past, so I'd like to know what you think.
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Old 08-27-2014, 02:55 PM   #32
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Some really good IRs:

http://www.ownhammer.com/free/public-beta-redux/
http://www.redwirez.com/free1960g12m25s.jsp
http://cabs.kalthallen.de/kalthallen_free.html

Also google: God's Cab Impulses" (it's temporarily down, but should be back soon).
Let me add to that list, both commercial :
http://www.recabi.net/
and, tied with Redwirez, my favourites :
http://www.two-notes.com/en/software...ll-of-sound-3/
Two Notes has the best interface hands down imho.
S-Gear uses a small, but well selected choice of Redwirez IRs.

which brings up an often neglected point, I guess :
unless you know exactly that you'll need an off-axis R-101 @ 3" between cap and cone of a Fane Crescendo and nothing else, all collections forcing you to choose from a list with 10.000s of IRs won't do you much good - either a small, expertly chosen set of a handful of cabs and mics that work well together, or an experimentation-friendly UI like Two Notes will give you better results in a fraction of the time.
Same for those "warehouse full of amps" sims - give me a few stellar ones over that warehouse of lookalikes any day.

ymmv,
Rhino
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:52 PM   #33
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Just found out about this one. Didn't have the time to try it but I watched the short video and it sounded really good. I will play with it as soon as I find some time. Nice surprise

Cheers,
Alex
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Old 08-27-2014, 04:01 PM   #34
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Let me add to that list, both commercial :
http://www.recabi.net/
and, tied with Redwirez, my favourites :
http://www.two-notes.com/en/software...ll-of-sound-3/
Two Notes has the best interface hands down imho.
S-Gear uses a small, but well selected choice of Redwirez IRs.

which brings up an often neglected point, I guess :
unless you know exactly that you'll need an off-axis R-101 @ 3" between cap and cone of a Fane Crescendo and nothing else, all collections forcing you to choose from a list with 10.000s of IRs won't do you much good - either a small, expertly chosen set of a handful of cabs and mics that work well together, or an experimentation-friendly UI like Two Notes will give you better results in a fraction of the time.
Same for those "warehouse full of amps" sims - give me a few stellar ones over that warehouse of lookalikes any day.

ymmv,
Rhino
Well, one simply has to find a handful of IRs (reverb, cabs ... doesn't matter) that she/he will use all the time but it's good to have a lot of good ones to choose from at the beginning Today, I really use a small number of IRs. It took quite some time to get there, tho.

Cheers,
Alex

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Old 08-27-2014, 04:36 PM   #35
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Well, one simply has to find a handful of IRs (reverb, cabs ... doesn't matter) that she/he will use all the time but it's good to have a lot of good ones to choose from at the beginning Today, I really use a small number of IRs. It took quite some time to get there, tho.
we can certainly agree on that, same here, but I guess many folks don't want to dig that deep, not everybody is a guitar nutcase.

In the real world I've narrowed down the choices to 4 cabs which cover most of the classic tones gracefully, metal would be different :
1. 412 with '71 Pulsonic H30-55 Greenies, the boss
2. 412 with a mixture of G12-65 style speakers, a bit more modern than 1
3. open back 212 with Golds, mainly for jangly bright cleans and crunch
4. open back BB style 212 with the WGS equivalents of a Gold and an EV SRO, for meatier cleans and D-style leads
5. an open back 410 would round out that short list, one day ...

In a nutshell, that's what works for me in cabsim land, too - maybe this list can serve somebody as starting point in the wilderness of options ...

ymmv,
Rhino
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:20 PM   #36
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AcmeBarGig.com is down. I went through the whole process with Grebz, only to find the email verification sent me to a "this domain is for sale" page.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:22 PM   #37
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AcmeBarGig.com is down. I went through the whole process with Grebz, only to find the email verification sent me to a "this domain is for sale" page.
Whats up with that? AcmeBarGig is excellent.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:42 PM   #38
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I don't know what's going on, but here's a thread from last December:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=132298

When I went to www.acmebargig.co (note the ".co"), the site seemed to be up and running, but the download links in the verification email kicked me out to the ".com", and I never got the freebie stuff.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:55 PM   #39
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I know that everyone is meaning well by listing resources, but what specific config (amp+cab+settings) from these listed resources will provide sounds in the ballpark of the Stones/Black Crowes? I'm just saying that sending the op digging through freeware can become virtually endless, and it might not be as helpful as would be some specifics.

In commercial plugins, the Podfarm Plexi 100 model through the Amplitube PPC112 cab and 414 mic model will definitely get you in the ballpark of The Black Crowes. Change the amp model for the Podfarm Blackface, same cab/mic models as before, and you will be in the neighborhood of the Stones. The Amplitube equivalent models will probably get you in the neighborhood, too (I personally didn't buy them because I already had Podfarm amp models, which sound better to me). Add the freeware Density MKII/III comp between the amp model and cab to knock back the transients and to add a little squash to taste - upper mid/high frequency peaks in particular can make an amp model sound harsh/brash.
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Old 08-27-2014, 11:25 PM   #40
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I have not. I will investigate
Quick and Dirty

That's it with no amp or cabinet sim - excuse the playing I just plugged in and played some wang chords.

I put a send from my tube pre channel to a second channel with the JS Fuzz plug on it and I mix the two sounds together to get them to react how I want. If you spend a bit of time on it you can get a decent sound - I didn't I just plugged in messed with it for a minute or two and hit record.
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