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08-20-2014, 05:53 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,942
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Unwanted gaps at tracks in CD burn (-continuous audio)
Could someone clear this up for me, or could we have a confirmtion from the devs that this is a bug/ shortcoming/ unlikely to be fixed please? I searched in the bugs section, but surprisingly didn't find any threads on it.
I'm writing about the 2-second gaps left at track markers in continuous audio (eg a live recital, etc), when rendering to CUE/BIN and buning the CD natively by REAPER.
This is despite:
-unchecking the "Lead-in silence for tracks"
-aligning the project markers used for track placement to 75fps grid
-using only 44k1 uncompressed source
-sample-aligning the source to the beginning of the project.
If I import the CUE/BIN files into Nero, there isn't an issue, but with REAPER's native CD burning the gaps are unavoidably included.
This has een tried on XP32 SP2, ME32 and Win7-64.
Could anyone give a workflow to avoid this, or a confirmation that they have/ have not been able to solve the issue please?
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08-20-2014, 08:42 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,696
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I know when this used to give me problems it was a selction in the CD burning dialog. It was called cdtools or something. I had to change that selection or it was using a windows setup that was putting gaps in. Im not at my DAW so I can't specifically describe it.
I apologize if this is something you have already covered.. it just really rang a bell
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08-20-2014, 12:00 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thequietroom
I know when this used to give me problems it was a selction in the CD burning dialog. It was called cdtools or something. I had to change that selection or it was using a windows setup that was putting gaps in. Im not at my DAW so I can't specifically describe it.
I apologize if this is something you have already covered.. it just really rang a bell
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Hello quietroom, and thanks for this. Is this a selection in the render dialogue or in the burn dialogue later -I cant find it. Is it an external program/driver that can be installed and REAPER use for rendering/burning?
I use Nero for burning the CUE/BIN files, so I haven't struggled with this before now, but I'm trying to help a client create his own monitor mixes. If this CD Tools is a third party app replacing a MS component, it sounds like the problem might be with Windows and not REAPER itself.
Thanks for you help, I have more info to make progress with now. If you could find out more about this "CD Tools" option, I'd be grateful.
Thanks again
Edit: It's an option in the burning dialogue, I'll do some testing, thank you.
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Last edited by planetnine; 08-20-2014 at 12:02 PM.
Reason: lightbulb!
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08-20-2014, 12:23 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Location
Posts: 5,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine
I use Nero for burning the CUE/BIN files, so I haven't struggled with this before now, but I'm trying to help a client create his own monitor mixes. If this CD Tools is a third party app replacing a MS component, it sounds like the problem might be with Windows and not REAPER itself.
Thanks again
Edit: It's an option in the burning dialogue, I'll do some testing, thank you.
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Sorry, Nathan - I'm not of real help, I think, either. What I can say is, that I had the same issue when trying to burn a CD, so I reckon it's a Reaper problem.
Maybe I should install a virtual CD drive, because I'm not that keen on ruining one CD after the other and rewritables take too long.
-Data
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08-20-2014, 01:15 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,696
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found a reference to it in
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...hlight=cdtools
from READAVE:
Just reporting that the CD burn worked successfully using either method (cdrecord/cdtools or the Windows native burning). As d.bop mentioned though, the Windows native burning method created 2 second pauses even if '0' was selected.
Another question: Is there a way to configure the burn speed? It appears to be set quite low.
A buffer display and progress bar would be nice additions too.
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08-20-2014, 01:24 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,942
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Nope, it gives an error message before burning.
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08-20-2014, 04:36 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,068
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Hi planetnine,
I'm a little bit familiar with cdrecord. It's a command line program, and Reaper is is a frontend gui for burning with cdrecord.
I can tell you that Reapers version of cdrecord is also old and outdated, but it still works on my rig.
In Windows, it's located in "C:\Program Files\REAPER\Plugins\cdrecord.exe"
What kind of error are you getting?
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08-20-2014, 06:57 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Location
Posts: 5,563
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Hi WyattRice,
hope you don't mind me chiming in.
The error is, that if you burn a CD, the burned CD has gaps between all tracks although gaps are switched off i.e. are set to 0 in the render dialog. As you can imagine, this is not what one wants on e.g. a live-CD or a concept album, where tracks might be connected to one another.
Maybe Nathan (Planetnine) can give additional info on that.
-Data
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08-20-2014, 08:03 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,696
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That's a bummer it didn't work. I remember having other problems with windows native and the discs playing only some tracks and out of order on consoles.
I swear I cannot believe sonys CD architect is so old and dated and no real full fledged alternative is out there. At least none that I could find and I've searched.
Reaper works pretty good for me with Cdrecord. Although its been a couple years since I did an ep.. I had most tracks overlapping and I got it to eventually work.
I'd have to try it again but I seem to remember it kicked an error out but the discs were ok
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08-21-2014, 02:36 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,942
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Hello guys. I meant cdtools errors. I'm getting a whole string of steps on the burn with...
"cue sheet not accepted", "retrying with minimum pregap size =1", "Sense key: 0x5 illegal request, segment 0", "sense code 0x26 Qual 0x00 (invalid field in parameter list) Fru 0x0", "Sense flags: Blk (not valid)", "cdrecord: CUE sheet stil not accepted. Please try to write in RAW (-raw96r) mode."
It's with a short test burn, and it's got 2000ms disc pregap, but no track pregap. Everything quantised to 75fps grid.
Any ideas? Thanks for helping...
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08-21-2014, 06:24 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Data
Hi WyattRice,
hope you don't mind me chiming in.
The error is, that if you burn a CD, the burned CD has gaps between all tracks although gaps are switched off i.e. are set to 0 in the render dialog. As you can imagine, this is not what one wants on e.g. a live-CD or a concept album, where tracks might be connected to one another.
Maybe Nathan (Planetnine) can give additional info on that.
-Data
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Hi Mr. Data,
Yes I understand that. Reapers two different burning engines (Windows only) are
1.) Native windows API (this uses imapi2) Windows built in.
2.) cdrtools (which is cdrecord) a third party cmd line program.
If you are using # Markers to define new tracks, the Windows native method puts 2 secs between the tracks automatically.
Reaper needs to fix this IMHO, or state it clearly in the render section, plus another flaw is that you have to render a new cue/bin every time to even bring up the burning dialog (these should be separated). Hopefully the devs will address this sometime in the future.
cdrecord burns exactly what the cuesheet reads. To me, this should be the default burning method for burning audio cd's.
It just needs to be updated, as mentioned cdrecord in Reaper is very outdated.
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08-21-2014, 06:29 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine
Hello guys. I meant cdtools errors. I'm getting a whole string of steps on the burn with...
"cue sheet not accepted", "retrying with minimum pregap size =1", "Sense key: 0x5 illegal request, segment 0", "sense code 0x26 Qual 0x00 (invalid field in parameter list) Fru 0x0", "Sense flags: Blk (not valid)", "cdrecord: CUE sheet stil not accepted. Please try to write in RAW (-raw96r) mode."
It's with a short test burn, and it's got 2000ms disc pregap, but no track pregap. Everything quantised to 75fps grid.
Any ideas? Thanks for helping...
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planetnine, for a test, could you upload your Reaper project file (just the RPP file)?
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08-21-2014, 11:14 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,942
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Thank you Wyatt, I'm just going to upload the RPP to the stash now.
If there is a later version of cdrecord, I might try that. Thank you Mr Hughes.
gimme a minute...
Edit: link here...
https://stash.reaper.fm/21566/cd%20fr...antised%29.RPP
PS. I've made an EEL version of your "Insert CD track marker" tool, Wyatt
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Last edited by planetnine; 08-21-2014 at 12:00 PM.
Reason: added project link...
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08-21-2014, 01:11 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine
Thank you Wyatt, I'm just going to upload the RPP to the stash now.
If there is a later version of cdrecord, I might try that. Thank you Mr Hughes.
gimme a minute...
Edit: link here...
https://stash.reaper.fm/21566/cd%20fr...antised%29.RPP
PS. I've made an EEL version of your "Insert CD track marker" tool, Wyatt
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planetnine,
I sent you a pm.
I have compiled new versions of cdrecord, but no, they won't work with Reaper because some of the command-line arguments have changed, so the devs would have to fix their cmds to match the new ones. I'd be glad to send them a new version if they want it.
Thanks for converting that script to eel.
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08-22-2014, 12:13 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WyattRice
planetnine,
I sent you a pm.
I have compiled new versions of cdrecord, but no, they won't work with Reaper because some of the command-line arguments have changed, so the devs would have to fix their cmds to match the new ones. I'd be glad to send them a new version if they want it.
Thanks for converting that script to eel.
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Hello, Wyatt.
Apologies for not getting back to this sooner, but I've only just got round to looking at what you left for me. Thank you very much for this.
I've unzipped it as it stands, and run the Simple_cue_burner file, and loaded a CUE file. I ran a "simulated write" and looked at the task list after it was completed.
Am I correct in understanding that if it reports (eg):
Code:
FIFO size : 0 = 0 KBTrack 01: audio 2 MB (00:16.28) no preemp pregapsize: 300
Track 02: audio 2 MB (00:15.60) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Track 03: audio 6 MB (00:39.00) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Track 04: audio 5 MB (00:31.04) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Track 05: audio 11 MB (01:10.40) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Track 06: audio 3 MB (00:23.40) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Track 07: audio 4 MB (00:25.44) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Track 08: audio 12 MB (01:14.73) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Total size: 50 MB (04:57.89) = 22342 sectors
with those "pregapsizes" at zero, that this has been "burned" without gaps?
I might try another example CD "coaster", but if this is reporting what it would actually have written to disc, then I can test upstream marker aligning software without the current polycarbonate wastage
Again, thank you for doing this. Am I ok to distribute this to clients as a means of burning CDs with REAPER?
Edit: EEL version of your "Insert CD track marker" script is here BTW:
https://stash.reaper.fm/21582/PL9%20-...k%20marker.eel
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08-24-2014, 09:15 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine
Hello, Wyatt.
Apologies for not getting back to this sooner, but I've only just got round to looking at what you left for me. Thank you very much for this.
I've unzipped it as it stands, and run the Simple_cue_burner file, and loaded a CUE file. I ran a "simulated write" and looked at the task list after it was completed.
Am I correct in understanding that if it reports (eg):
Code:
FIFO size : 0 = 0 KBTrack 01: audio 2 MB (00:16.28) no preemp pregapsize: 300
Track 02: audio 2 MB (00:15.60) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Track 03: audio 6 MB (00:39.00) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Track 04: audio 5 MB (00:31.04) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Track 05: audio 11 MB (01:10.40) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Track 06: audio 3 MB (00:23.40) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Track 07: audio 4 MB (00:25.44) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Track 08: audio 12 MB (01:14.73) no preemp pregapsize: 0
Total size: 50 MB (04:57.89) = 22342 sectors
with those "pregapsizes" at zero, that this has been "burned" without gaps?
I might try another example CD "coaster", but if this is reporting what it would actually have written to disc, then I can test upstream marker aligning software without the current polycarbonate wastage
Again, thank you for doing this. Am I ok to distribute this to clients as a means of burning CDs with REAPER?
Edit: EEL version of your "Insert CD track marker" script is here BTW:
https://stash.reaper.fm/21582/PL9%20-...k%20marker.eel
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Looks like you got it going. Man, that front end app I sent you was really put together rather quickly. I would be glad for you to share it with your clients, or anyone, but before you do, let me finish it, as it probably might have some bugs, plus I'll have a Mac version as well. Would you be up for doing some more test for me?
Thanks, Wyatt
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