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Old 10-24-2007, 03:32 AM   #1
synthex
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Default Piano roll .vs. Tracker (Rock n roll) + Patterns

With my 14 years tracker history , I always would like to see
piano roll and tracker notation in same application but unfortunately I've never seen. Im using Jeskola buzz since 1998
and Im still producing commercial works with it.

My big reason to using it is , tracker notation and pattern sequencing. In this case, why not to see at least a simple tracker styled step sequencer in this great software.

and also it would be good to create auto renamed patterns in a dropdown box when user insert a midi item. like in buzz
for example

1.Inserting first new midi item
2.Program would create [A.PAttern name]( A would be shortcut key for pattern using in sequencer)I may insert it pressing A in sequencer area
3.If I delete pattern from sequencer , it wouldnt remove from pattern list unless user delete it from pattern list.

I think , sequencer blocks and patterns are different concepts
I have a pattern prototype and I can use it anywhere in sequencer area.
Thanx for reading... regards

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(Room Recordings)
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Old 10-24-2007, 05:12 AM   #2
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++1 this is something im after too
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:06 AM   #3
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Well it's a good idea, it would be nice to have a tracker sequencer, to have the choice would be revolutional, but in some point I find it unneccesary, it's a question of happit i guess.

Hmmm it is a very cool idea, i hope we'll see it, but i doubt we will some how.



Would be cool actually!
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:39 AM   #4
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hi!

an onboard tracker would be a killer feature for me too...so a big +1 from me. but like wishoff i also doubt that this will be implemented some time soon. stupid piano roll took over the daw world

but in the meantime there is something nearly as good as an onboard tracker. in case you didn't know about it already you should check out revisit. it's a tracker plugin as a vsti!

click the image for a larger screenshot:



just ask me here or in revisit's forum if you need help.

greetings,

fegi
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:44 AM   #5
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i think that it would be cool to ATLEAST have a option to choose this in reaper

i know quite alot of people who would love this option in reaper

so please consider it as an option
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:29 AM   #6
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This feature would give reaper a larger fanbase, i think alot of trackers, or/and former trackers would open eyes for reaper and dig in with it.
This kind of thing as been on lips as long as i remember since FastTracker 2, maybe it will come to life with Reaper (come to life with Reaper, what a line heh ).

It would be nice to hear Cockos about this, just like once and for all, is this a good idea for Reaper or not??

(regarding REVisit, well it's a cool vsti, but still not quite perfect, because it's like rewiring madtracker2 or so, the idea of having the sequencer/midi-items and the abilities Reaper has here, vanishes with Revisit, because you're sequencing within the vsti.)
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Last edited by Wishoff; 10-25-2007 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishoff View Post
This feature would give reaper a larger fanbase, i think alot of trackers, or/and former trackers would open eyes for reaper and dig in with it.
This kind of thing as been on lips as long as i remember since FastTracker 2, maybe it will come to life with Reaper (come to life with Reaper, what a line heh ).

It would be nice to hear Cockos about this, just like once and for all, is this a good idea for Reaper or not??

(regarding REVisit, well it's a cool vsti, but still not quite perfect, because it's like rewiring madtracker2 or so, the idea of having the sequencer/midi-items and the abilities Reaper has here, vanishes with Revisit, because you're sequencing within the vsti.)
I agree.

and alternately I tried to use external midi tracker for reaper ,
like ztracker
but it didnt work , its good idea to adapt very simple external midi tracker for reaper if it works also.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishoff View Post
This feature would give reaper a larger fanbase, i think alot of trackers, or/and former trackers would open eyes for reaper and dig in with it.
This kind of thing as been on lips as long as i remember since FastTracker 2, maybe it will come to life with Reaper (come to life with Reaper, what a line heh ).

It would be nice to hear Cockos about this, just like once and for all, is this a good idea for Reaper or not??
yes...absolutely! this would be a unique and fantastic feature for reaper. and another step forward.

i think it wouldn't even be too hard to implement. more or less it would just be another view for the already existing midi editor. (did i already mention, that i hate the piano roll? )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishoff View Post
(regarding REVisit, well it's a cool vsti, but still not quite perfect, because it's like rewiring madtracker2 or so, the idea of having the sequencer/midi-items and the abilities Reaper has here, vanishes with Revisit, because you're sequencing within the vsti.)
i just pointed it out, because afaik it is the most "host-implemented" tracker so far - imo not comparable to a rewired madtracker, for example

- all the module data gets saved within the host's project file
- keyboard shortcuts and functions, the timebase and routing possibilities are much better integrated into the host
- you can preview and start pattern playback within reaper (that was my knock-out criteria for mt's rewire mode btw)
- performance is also much better than having 2 audio applications running next to each other.

but you're absolutely right that there is still a lot of room for improvement

some time ago i used sk@le tracker and mad tracker and had to manually export all tracks as waves and imported them back into cubase, and if one note didn't fit my guitars or vocals i did it all over again...man that was work

cheers,

fegi

Last edited by fegi; 10-25-2007 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 10-25-2007, 06:11 AM   #9
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I so totally agree with a tracker interface. In fact, I think I have requested teh same in the past. Another thing that woudl be cool would be libzubb support (trac.zeitherrschaft.org/zzub/) which woudl give access to a host of buzz plugins. Some of the, like the trackers, woudl need to be sequenced using a tracker interface...

tox
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Old 10-25-2007, 07:10 AM   #10
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Is 'tracker' a program name? I'm not familiar with it. I do like this idea though... it's very similar to a drum / step editor.

Again... forgive the constant references to Cubase but it's what I use so it's my only real reference to most of these things. The drum editor / step sequencer below seems similar to what's being described here...

Is this the same thing or is a 'tracker' something different?


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Old 10-25-2007, 11:44 AM   #11
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I would second this, but I do have some reservations...

One of the main reasons I even use Renoise is that the tracker interface runs perfectly with the built in sampler. Retriggering and offsetting samples are pretty much the primary advantages of using a tracker (at least in my workflow). This would pretty much mean programming an entirely new instrument to work within Reaper, which is kind of ridiculous.

On the other hand, if the keyboard shortcuts are implemented gracefully, I could see this (a non-sampler, but MIDI-only) as a great way to program quick melodies when you have your laptop on an airplane.
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Old 10-26-2007, 03:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelizard View Post
On the other hand, if the keyboard shortcuts are implemented gracefully, I could see this (a non-sampler, but MIDI-only) as a great way to program quick melodies when you have your laptop on an airplane.
Yes exactly, the whole sampler thing seems to be a very big deal, and something i very much doubt we will ever see, but the midi trackering is not, as you said, it would be Useful when away from the studio and so.

Or maybe the thing with a sampler inclusive tracker is not a science fiction idea, if the midi tracker sequenser is made, how difficult would it be to make few features like sample offset with the ReaSamplomatic5000 ??

I'm not a developer so i have no clue about how hard or easy it is to make things like this, but when i see how enormous Reaper as grown in a very short period of time, i'm not far from believing that this could be actual, but only if Cockos sees the big picture of these features, and find them interesting.

Ps. well there is a "virtual MIDI Keyboard" in reaper, so we can record on planes already (but not as brilliant if it was with a tracker maybe!?!)
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Old 10-27-2007, 10:42 AM   #13
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+1 of sample offsets int he samplomatic thingee..
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Old 10-29-2007, 09:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Is 'tracker' a program name? I'm not familiar with it. I do like this idea though... it's very similar to a drum / step editor.

Again... forgive the constant references to Cubase but it's what I use so it's my only real reference to most of these things. The drum editor / step sequencer below seems similar to what's being described here...

Is this the same thing or is a 'tracker' something different?
hi lawrence!

a tracker is a bit different. it is a step editor, but scrolls vertically through the song. you directly enter the notes, volume information and effect-numbers via your computer keyboard into the different channels, which with some practice is 100 times faster than "painting" with a piano roll.

if you look at the screenshot i posted somewhere above, you can see a tracker where some notes are already entered.

wikipedia explains it better i guess
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:36 PM   #15
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To sum it up, here are the currently available options:

1. Have a vst tracker embedded in a daw: hard to setup, clumsy, unresponsive and does'nt work well with hardware synth. ex: reVisit

2. Have a tracker with multitrack audio: more reliable, stable and no need for complex syncing but may lack some advanced features of daw and sound quality might not be the best. ex: Renoise

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Old 11-14-2007, 08:41 AM   #16
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That is a great idea synthex. I too have been using Buzz since 98. (How come I never see you around?)

There is a serious gap in midi sequencer in providing a fast qwerty method for editing midi. I would think the best way to implent tracker speed with midi flexibility would be to incorperate a midi event list into a tracker type interface.
A seperate view of a piano roll in spreadsheet form.

DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON PATTERNS. I really want to see all sequencers go the way of Live with an inventory of patterns one can trigger and record or drag to an arangement.
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:45 AM   #17
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+1 to libzubb support!
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Old 03-27-2008, 04:19 AM   #18
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Hey Justin, be godlike again,
we really really need this feature!

+1
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:19 PM   #19
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++1

Pattern sequencing would be amazing and would speed up drums and bass tracks for me for example.


@Wishoff :

Btw, could you tell me what skin you are using in Reaper?
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:54 PM   #20
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synthex,

what about this idea?:

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17664


(MIDI AND _Audio_ Patterns..)
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:25 PM   #21
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Pattern sequencing. Great for quickly getting your ideas in there with a keyboard.

+1 from an 18 year tracker user.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:00 PM   #22
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I want to push this.

Dear Justin, I don't want to get on your nerves,
but a pattern sequencer midi editor view
like it was in Buzz and lots of trackers before
would drive Reaper to a new level of DAW innovation. I really respect your work.
You're the inventor of Winamp. You're a star.

I'm sure that you know this and the programming
would mean lots of work and sleepless nights
for you.

Please increase our creativity.


Greetings

your bob
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Old 04-02-2008, 08:48 AM   #23
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I MUST PUSH THAT
++1
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:21 AM   #24
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I'm all for a built-in tracker if it's multipattern. Otherwise I'll just wait for BuzeVST to get to 1.0
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:52 AM   #25
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Default tracker view for the win

Tracker view for the midi editor would be amazing, I'm currently trying to juggle openmpt/renoise and reaper for composition/production.
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:20 AM   #26
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Quote:
With my 14 years tracker history , I always would like to see
piano roll and tracker notation in same application but unfortunately I've never seen. Im using Jeskola buzz since 1998
and Im still producing commercial works with it.
you dont know dreamstation 2, do you?!
i dont think reaper needs a tracker-interface, would be ubercool, but over the top besides the fact that there are a few things still missing in reaper.
as far as i can see by all those posts about hardware-interfaces. reaper (cockos) has other priorities. *squints into the big studio*
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:38 AM   #27
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MY skin at that moment was reaperton ( an appleton live alike skin ) ..
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:48 PM   #28
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like FLStudio? i LOVE that setup, with the pattern blocks + the audio sequencer... can create and re-arrange shit so fast on it... infact i haven't found another DAW where i can work at that efficiency... everything is so fluid on it and pattern blocks are for the win!



EDIT: that pic doesn't show it, but the stepsequencer also does piano roll... such as in the pic below...


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Old 10-24-2009, 05:54 PM   #29
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+1!!!!
I'd love to, Buzz MTracker is the best for drum sequencing!
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huguesbc View Post
and sound quality might not be the best. ex: Renoise
Uhm, what?
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Old 10-17-2010, 04:06 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jondev87 View Post
like FLStudio? i LOVE that setup, with the pattern blocks + the audio sequencer... can create and re-arrange shit so fast on it... infact i haven't found another DAW where i can work at that efficiency... everything is so fluid on it and pattern blocks are for the win!
too bad its for MIDI, not much Audio love there.. patterns, i mean.
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Old 10-17-2010, 04:34 PM   #32
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a tracker interace, that would be awesome!
plus one!
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Old 10-17-2010, 04:41 PM   #33
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Quote:
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too bad its for MIDI, not much Audio love there.. patterns, i mean.
unless you're using a software sampler...
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Old 10-17-2010, 04:43 PM   #34
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Quote:
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unless you're using a software sampler...
thats "MIDI" again. i mean audio straight on the timeline, in ghostable, multitakeable, editable containers.

sort of like PiPs.

(check my link in post #20, if you wanna see what i mean)
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:04 PM   #35
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Is there a tracker FR in the tracker?

This would be pretty neat, but I imagine it might be a ways off if it ever happens. RenoiseVSTi or an improved ReViSiT seems to be a more likely solution.

Vertical piano roll would be cool. A vertical timeline might also be neat, but I'm sure there's a reason no program has implemented this option before...
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:09 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fladd View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by huguesbc View Post
2. Have a tracker with multitrack audio: more reliable, stable and no need for complex syncing but may lack some advanced features of daw and sound quality might not be the best. ex: Renoise
Uhm, what?
Yeah, kinda confused by that as well. Renoise's sampler on mixdown was reported to be one of the best out there. Rendering quality considered perfect: http://www.simonv.com/tutorials/quality.php
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:41 AM   #37
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Huge +1 (and bump)

I'd love to have "tracker items" in the sequencer area.

Set length within the tracker item, and then that can be dragged around.

Even if it were integrated with reasamplomatic, this would be a great way to push Reaper forward in the DAW world.

Ideally though each "tracker item" would be a (single) sample player in and of itself. That way if one had multiple samples to 'track' they could each be inserted in different tracker items on different reaper tracks.

Another way could be to have "ReaTracker" (my generic reaper-tracker name) be able to split up the sample into a number of sections. Then the beginning of each split can be triggered within the ReaTracker sequencing window. Obviously there would be a check box to have the sample stop at the end of the split or play to the end of the sample.

Sample offset a must though if there were no "splitting" feature.

At least that's how I envision it, and I have basically zero tracker experience other than trying to learn open modplug and madtracker.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:01 AM   #38
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You mean like this? http://revisit.info/

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Old 03-27-2017, 06:38 PM   #39
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Is there any buzevst version which does not crash latest reaper? (5.40)
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:44 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffroy View Post
+1!!!!
I'd love to, Buzz MTracker is the best for drum sequencing!
uTrk?

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